Tree of Savior Forum

My feels about TP compensation in an ugly comic

General Discussion
#61

Stupidity reigns supreme in these compensation threads.

well, you’re absolutely right about this part. your selective quotations and one dimensional argument amused me at first, but now it’s just plain stupid. you spent like what, 500 usd on this game? I spent way more on ff xiv and other mmos, but never felt as entitled as you do.

so you want things to go down like this:

you bought a token worth 198TP, sold it for say 500k.
got your 500k, spent it on whatever.
found out tokens are gonna be 99TP.
you feel like IMC owes you 99TP.

if we go by that logic, you owe the person who bought your token, 250k. can you find the person who bought your token? can you return a portion of the item that you bought with the 500k you got from the token sale? now my point is, IMC came up with the simplest possible way to do this without writing algorithms that run the risk of messing up the entire database or even taking another 24 hour maintenance. at the end of the day it’s just f*cking TP, how long are you gonna keep crying over this? goodluck, kid

4 Likes
#62

They’re just acting ignorant because they’re afraid that IMC realizes how stupid this compensation system is.

According to all their arguments they won’t use their 99 TP (or more) in anything but a token, or anything at all since, according to them, it only affects the token, so they’re saying that the TP is useless and they are just victims of the silver price drop (?) while writing this they’re grinding hard in-game like all of us to buy tokens and get the “useless 99 TP” for some silver.

Now they’re hyprocrite enough to keep saying all this non-sense arguments after yesterday IMC added the over priced TP bundles to the steam store, are they also acting stupid and thinking about buying one of those bundles when they can instead get the TP with silver? Who knows, but anyone intelligent enough would have in mind the compensation before spending real money.

They’ll keep talking like victims until the end saying that free users deserve free TP for spending in-game money (seriously?) and people who actually spent real money in TP doesn’t deserve TP compensation because they were already “compensated” with in-game money LOL (again not everyone sold their tokens, some of them bought them to use them for a very high REAL MONEY price, those are the ones who should be compensated, and again, no, most of us are not getting compensated).

Who said that 198 TP worths 600k? Where in the game you can buy 198 TP with 600k? Does that even make sense? Just because we want to sell a premium item for 600k doesn’t mean you can buy premium money with 600k. Think about it, if that had any sense at all then why is it premium money? 198 TP worths 29€, we paid for it, you didn’t. If you don’t pay for it then why should we pay for it? If you can get 99TP for 600k - 800k in SILVER (that again I have, because I’m like any other player, I grind and stuff) then why should we pay 14€ for it? “Because you’re a lazy ass bla bla bla” do you think I would have payed for it if I knew about this “”"“Compensation”""" thing? I don’t have any problem to grind extra hours to get some TP, that’s part of the fun we have in-game, so don’t come and tell us that it’s not free because you had to work for it. If you think grinding is a pain in the ass and a “job” then you’re in the wrong game.

Conclusion, this “compensation” is not a compensation but a “TP for Silver” event, if TP was that useless for you, you wouldn’t be here defending the compensation system. More clear than water.

#63

Heh so:

You bought a token for 500k, because you can’t afford TP.
You got your premium item for in-game money.
Found out tokens are gonna be 99 TP!!!
You feel like IMC owes you the TP.

#64

lol… i can’t tell if this is acting ignorant, or just true ignorance.
that isn’t what anyone said.

but you just said people were buying TP with silver. in fact, you said it a LOT.

…

nope, forget it.
you misquote. you twist around what everyone is trying to tell you. you say one thing in one sentence, and then in the very next paragraph you say the exact opposite.
and it’s just not worth the time trying to make someone who refuses to stop living in their own personal fantasyland.

#65

You said that in other words lol. Read the other person.

-Face palm- WITHOUT the compensation there is no way to buy TP with silver, because it makes no sense, WITH the compensation people is now buying TP with silver oh my god how old are you?[quote=“tzxazrael, post:64, topic:281674”]
who refuses to stop living in their own personal fantasyland.
[/quote]

Wtf is wrong with this guy xD my fantasyland is a game where Premium money is Premium and In-game money is In-game money? Woa! So crazy! Funny fact he ignored the main arguments.

Again, nobody will take your TP, go keep grinding. Let the people affected by this fix their problems while you get your free candy.

1 Like
#66

no, that isn’t what we said.
you’re taking several different things that we said, and mushing them all together.

no, they still aren’t. they’re buying tokens.
the tokens are scheduled to have their prices cut in a week… meaning that the owners of the tokens are losing value based on the price they paid for their tokens. to compensate for this arbitrary decrease in value, IMC is awarding the token owners, who are the ones losing value on their investments, a compensation of 99TP, the same amount that the value is being decreased by.

now… some people ARE obviously going to exploit this, and buy up tokens right now, just to get the TP-compensation as owners of that.

but you act like this was some big plan that you’ve been cheated out of. everyone (outside of IMC) found out about it at the same time. those who wanted to take advantage of it quickly started buying tokens.
you, despite all this silver you claim to have, sit here on the forums complaining about how unfair you think it is instead of buying up some tokens yourself.

your fantasyland is that the two are completely separate, unconnected things.
you cannot directly exchange silver for TP, although we have this temporary issue during this compensation period.
you have -always- been able to exchange TP for silver, via the sale of tokens. thus there -is- a correlation between the cost of TP, and the value of silver.

i’m well aware of that.

except that the people who are actually affected by it mostly seem pretty happy about it.
it’s the people to whom it is generally -not- relevant, like you, that seem to be doing all the crying about it.

1 Like
#67

This is how markets work guys, you can invest into something and completely backfire on you. Something is only worth the price on that very day. nothing in the world is a set price it always changes on supply and demand.

#68

Examples of the close-minded people that thinks that TP = Token or nothing.

1 Like
#69

Yep, they just have no idea of how an economic system works.
Guess we should explain it in simpler terms.

You are Guy A and you have got a ton of apples. You go to the market to Merchant B, who only accepts apples and is the sole seller of pineapples, and trade 200 apples for two pineapples, since you heard that Guy C likes pineapples and has some pears to trade for. And you really like pears. You go to Guy C, who knows just how many apples such gracious pineapples could have costed - he knows Merchant B as well, after all - thus he gives you an adequate amount of pears in return. Then Merchant B has a change of mind and puts pineapples for a cheaper amounts of apples. Since he’s very magnanimous, he also says that whoever has got pineapples can bring them to him as proof and get some apples back in return.
You go back to Merchant B and say that you’ve bought pineapples from him, but when he asks you where those pineapples are, you reply by saying that you gave those away for several pears. Merchant B wonders why you even came there without pineapples, and why you’re bothering him after you traded his precious pineapples for pears. He asks you to go away, since you don’t have anything to do there.
Coincidentally, just in that moment, Guy C comes with a pineapple and a pineapple skin. Merchant B recognizes the pineapples and gives him some apples. You complain about that with Merchant B, but he replies saying that when you sold the pineapples for pears, you got a ton of pears from it because the pineapples themselves costed many apples to begin with. And since he’s making pineapples cheaper, trading them for pears won’t result in the same amount you got before, so you already got your apples’ worth in pears either way.
And thus you go away, to enjoy your pears. Eventually you even make some fruit juice out of it, so that you can drink your delicious pears. The end.

1 Like
#70

The change does effect only tokens. They’re the ones that are having their cost changed. If you didn’t buy tokens, the change does nothing to you.
If you bought them and still have them, the change still does nothing to you - they’re even compensating for the loss of worth by giving an equivalent amount of TP back.
If you bought them and sold them…you still did it at an amount that depended upon their cost, as that was what determined their supply. Actually, by halving their cost, there would have been more than double the tokens, so even selling two tokens wouldn’t have been enough to get the same amount of silvers, as their price did depend on the supply, as the markets dictate.
So, to get (less than) the same amount of silvers, you would have spent the same amount of TP. And thus nothing would have changed, at best.
And you even say i’m close-minded? That’s funny. Heh, guess you should learn some basic economics instead of playing games, it would really help you.

1 Like
#71

yes, that’s definitely us! totally 100%!!

speculation = truth.

plus those quotes are super full of provingness.

i mean, ok, sure i’ve had about 2500 TP so far, and i have yet to buy a single token with silver -or- TP, but i’m sure that must be a fluke, and i’m about to start buying tokens at any moment, and you must -obviously- be right.

#72

Heh, so are you that stupid to think that people is buying tokens right now, even if they know they’ll be cheaper in a week, just because they need it?

Do you think people buying tokens right now are losing? Seriously? Arbitrary sure, when there is a big announcement posted more than a week ago xD[quote=“tzxazrael, post:66, topic:281674”]
now… some people ARE obviously going to exploit this, and buy up tokens right now, just to get the TP-compensation as owners of that.
[/quote]

That’s the whole point here lol, finally you got it.

…How many times I have to repeat this? I worked hard to buy 2 packs to get the TP that now you (and me because I’m grinding for tokens as well since I’m not ever buying TP again and not getting compensated for the ones I have because one expired 2 days ago and the other is a 60 day one) are getting for free, with this compensation logic It’s a waste of money buying TP, since they made a way to get it with in-game money disguised as a “compensation”, and also it was a waste of money getting the packs for the tokens too (since I won’t get compensated for them, and if I’ve known that their price would go down that dramatically, I wouldn’t have bought a second pack with the 60 day token and instead I would have bought either another pair of tokens in-game or a cheaper pack to get x2 30 days at 198TP instead of paying 49€ that would be 396 TP), that means I wasted 100€ unnecessary, while you will keep your 100€ plus free TP, I made a comic showing in a funny way how I feel about it, since it was really hard for me to give up that money because there was no way to get TP in-game (for more stuff I wanted that you’ll get for free with your free TP, I mean copensation for your lose, lol).

In other words, if I’ve known it would be this easy to get TP I wouldn’t have done the hard work to get it, It I’ve known that Premium Money in this game is not Premium (again, about the only way to get those stuff, not about that “status” you invented), I wouldn’t have payed for it BUT PLAYED FOR IT INSTEAD with no real effort like everyone,

but that’s “clearly” not the intention of IMC,

but that’s what is happening, and it’s unfair.

And that’s why all the rage started

You only focus on the token change price that’s, for the smart people, irrelevant.

How I think this would have been done:

  1. If the token price change was the real deal:

-Make an announcement a day before, the same day of the patch or in the patch notes, not more than a week before, why? Because they want to compensate the owners who LOST value in the moment the price changed, not give away free TP to the new owners.

-Put a deadline, easy, the token owners who bought it before the announcement date (considerating what I said before) or price change date will be compensated for the lost value. After all it’s supposedly a compensation not a gift.

-Compensate only the people who bought it with TP or real money and OWN it, why also the people who bought it with real money? Because if you translate the real money spent in TP (since you can buy tokens with TP in-game) it’s a lost too, again considerating the last two points. This is not hard to find out, you just need to check the people who bought DLC packs.

I’ll leave alone the ones who sold it. Because yeah, the people who sold it agreed to sell it for silver, that’s not a compensation, it’s a trade, and the ones who bought it, agreed to buy it at that price, so both won, also to be honest I don’t think TP buyers will sell their tokens for 300k after the price change, that’s not in the hands of IMC either, but in the hands of the buyers who decides how much their TP worths.

-There are more ways to compensate people that meet the requirements above.

  • A discount TP voucher
  • Besides giving away 99 TP, extend the time of their tokens for 15 or 30 days.
  • Give away exp books and vouchers as you always do.

-And finally, there was another way to just avoid all of this:

  • A limited discount of 50% in tokens.

Easy right?

  1. If what you really intended was to give away TP to the users:

-Put a cap, it makes no sense that each person gets more than 2000 TP with in-game money that you can make in a few days (even more with the days you gave us after the announcement) when you’re trying to sell us max 900 TP for 71€ and you sold us 580 TP for 49€

-Make an event like all the mmos do.

-Make players put some in-game effort for it, not only grinding and wasting silver.

-Make an honest announcement.

-Respect the people that pays for your bundles, there is and there will always be a gap between the users who pay and the users who don’t, your job is not make it too big to be called a p2w, or to small (like now) to make users wonder what’s the point of buying your stuff. It’s not about status, it’s the simple rule about effort = gain. So don’t make us feel stupid and regret paying for this. Not a good marketing strategy.

I’m done.

#73

-Respect the people that pays for your bundles

So friggin entitled. You think your bundle purchase created the entire game? You spend a few euros and you act like you lost thousands upon thousands. Like a little kid throwing a tantrum, nothing ever gets through your close mind. Keep a copy of this thread and look at it again in 5 years, you’ll probably say “wow, I went nuts over this?”.

#74

Read the rest. You would feel mad if you were me or anyone who paid not a few euros but a lot, 100€ for me is a lot, sorry I’m not rich like you. Come on everyone knows the packs have always been overpriced. Entitled why? Lol, people who can’t afford game money always treat the ones who can like rich people. My money worths, as a customer, even if it’s 1€ or 100€. When a company plays with that you raise your voice. Not only in a game but in life in general.

Entitled because I ask for respect, how much is respect then?

By the way, of course free players deserve respect too, I was completely agree about making this free 2 play. And as I said in another answer, right now I’m a free player too.

But I made the last point about respecting people who contribute to the company with money because the compensation system is unrespectful with them, and this is a game but also a company, you have to take care of your customers, even more the ones who have been here supporting you from the start.

Free players are not getting insulted in any way with this, again, you keep your money and you get the prize, it’s not like you deserve to be insulted either. So I don’t know why so much trouble because the ones who paid doesn’t agree with this…It’s not like we’re taking away your compensation or anything.

I made this post only to show an abbreviation of how I felt about this fail compensation system and look what a sand storm lol. It’s my money not yours, so of course you won’t understand.

I just feel it should be fair. I wouldn’t have any problem if it was fair, even with some of my suggestions I wouldn’t get any compensation but I wouldn’t feel like I wasted my money either. Me or anyone.

#75

It is a very weird decision; thinking about it. It doesn’t make sense.

The focus should have been on the TP spent and not on the item purchased. (Though, in this case, the TP spent on the item purchased) It’s not that complicated too: Player A buys TP from IMC. IMC should have a record of that purchase. Technically, whatever Player A does with the items is his choice now as long as it is within the restrictions IMC has created. If an item is sold for silver, that is fine too as IMC allows it. Eitherway, the fact remains that the owner of the ‘TP spent’ on said item is Player A. Player A should get the compensation.

Maybe consider this: I buy an item on eBay. I sell that item to a random person. eBay decides to lower the price of that item and give compensation to those who bought the item. eBay will give compensation to me. This is because in their records, it was me who bought the item. Who I sell the item to afterwards is none of their business.

Now, if IMC does push through with the decision to give the TP to the holders of the tokens instead, then that’s fine. (Well… not really, but setting that aside as I make this point) The people who bought the tokens with hard earned silver is not at fault. There was an opportunity, and they took it. Easy. But calling out those who complain and calling them entitled, are pretty much entitled themselves.

Overall, this call is really weird. Think about it, this is very lazy. Are they saying they have no record of who purchased a token? Checking through everyone to see if they have a token is technically just as easy as checking who used TP to purchase tokens. The latter may even be easier, so why avoid it? This makes me very uneasy with this game’s cash shop.

Lastly, I’m no lawyer, so I’d like to ask if this is actually legal? Shouldn’t there be a law about buying digital goods (in this case, TP; not the token) and getting a refund? I did try to look this up but I think I’m searching through the wrong sites.

#76

As i said in multiple other threads before.

It’s not the buyers fault if the seller decided to sell their token for lower than they thought, if they were that desperate for silver it’s their own fault, they decided to sell something worth 198 TP for 350k silver, they got what they wanted, they dont need compensation except the person who now has an item that got devalued.

1 Like
#77

as much as i understand it’s about imc giving people 99 tp if they have a 30 day token activated right now. right?

so buying silver from goldsellers and then using that silver to buy tokens on the market manager is tbh the only clever way to do it. this gives you silver, tokens AND on top of that TP…

just an example. you can get 2kk silver for around 7-8 euro on fedimia. now you can buy 2kk silver, go into the market and buy 1-2 tokens (dunno what the price is right now) and because you have a token you will get tp due to it’s price reduction.

while this tactic seems shady, it’s clever, it’s the devs fault as they could not provide any real option to buy tp until now AND it does not change the fact that someone has paid for that token that’s been posted on the market manager.

to summarize.
dev did not react in time on customers demands.
customers found a way to get their hands on tokens.
dev invented a new way to buy tp but has not reduced token prices yet (this kinda feels like a cash grab)

1 Like
#78

What if instead of giving 99 TP to everyone IMC removes 300k silver (or half the price of the token) of everyone that sold tokens and return it to the player that bought the token. Would that be fair to you? That way people will not “buy premium items using silver”

Spoilers: Is not fair. Deal with it. No one is interested in buying tokens to get TP for costumes.

#79

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
Financial compensation refers to the act of providing a person with money or other things of economic value in exchange for their goods, labor, or to provide for the costs of injuries that they have incurred.

  • Remember: IT’S NOT CHARITY.

No one will be harmed, actually that’s happening precisely to avoid someone from being harmed after the economic adjustment of TOKENS, that is because Tokens are a RMT feature, and the only one (legally). The change is aiming exclusively the TOKEN vs SILVER situation, nothing else, and specially targeting people that sold Tokens for Silver (it can only be sold for Silver). Because now, TP sales are open, and before you could only get hands on TP with preestablished packs.
You just need to understand some concepts, if you say you have your hard work in-game as much as anyone else, that’s really awesome, good for you. But if you have any Token (30-day) you’re gonna get your fair share, it doesn’t matter if it comes from TP Shop or market, someone else in the first place already had to buy it, it’s a RMT, it’s legal and part of the game, someone made in-game profit converting their TP into Silver. The global adjustment will require everyone that have Token to get their share because it’s gonna get twice as cheaper, otherwise it’d hurt too much everyone who bought the packs previously, that is because after the TP sales the Tokens will be twice as cheaper to maintain people’s premium and leave it at a fair monthly price, people who bought packs would be in a huge loss of money, BECAUSE, it gives you an economic boost (RMT) coming from your real money. Tokens even have exclusivity at the market precisely to encourage more sales. If the Token wasn’t a RMT feature, IMC could simply change the price without repaying the users, risk taken, it was for your own personal use, now pay cheaper from now on, completely fine. But since it affects DIRECTLY the in-game’s economy and it’s a legal and healthy RMT feature, a lot of people would be completely HARMED by having wasted their money away. As quoted above: “to provide for the costs of injuries that they have incurred”.
Token is the only negotiable item from TP Shop. The compensation is going to adjust the TOKEN vs SILVER of the current situation (completely necessary), it’s not going to give more benefits to anyone or SPECIALLY give away stuff for free… let’s say, EVEN IF DID, you should mind your own game (pls), stop playing for others, it doesn’t give an upper hand to anybody, you could be mad if atleast another human being had “more advantages” than you.

  1. The overall economy is not going to be affected AT ALL, otherwise why would IMC do that? Are you calling them stupid to break their own game?
    It’s a COMPENSATION. The stuff you buy from the TP Shop are UNTRADABLE, therefore they are completely for your own personal use. If a “free user” has the opportunity to touch an exclusive item from the TP Shop, technically HE PAID FOR IT because he spent his Silver, his time, his handwork, he has PAID the Token he bought from someone else who also bought from TP. The guy who sold the Token, used his real money and made his profit by doing a legal RMT in the game’s economy.
    “Butt heeeey I’m sooo selfish!!! No one is supposed to touch anything from TP Shop eveeeeer because I am so exklusiiveee!!” - Deal with it, it’s a necessary move IMC has to do in order to adjust the Token, if it is somehow affecting your ego, that’s your own problem. But, come on, you can survive this.

  2. Enchat Scrolls does not have any Silver value, it’s UNTRADABLE, although it can turned into a gamble if you’re willing to risk your own money trying to make Silver profit out of it (no sense), it doesn’t have standard prices like Tokens that are used for RMT. Each hair costumes has also their own individual value and then the final price is completely determined by a subjective demand, it can be worth nothing, waste of money, could be worth millions, a profit in Silver, ultra RARE, gamble succeeded.

If you’re failing to understand the basic concept then this topic won’t be a solution for you and you’re free to stay whining and stay mad. At first I didn’t know what IMC did to the Tokens but then I quickly catched up. It’s clear how the compensation process works if you study the economy’s design that IMC has done. IMC has many flaws, where they’re improving, but their economy… wow their economy will be the biggest success in this game, they really know how to handle economy very well, I personally think economy is the heart of any MMO.
You’re being too selfish not accepting that the ONLY possible thing that could happen is to some people getting hands on an “opportunity”, so do speak, to own a costume, or whatever, but like I said, it’s not given away for free, it’s not charity, someone else has already gained the Silver from the TP that came from the compensation, and they have all rights to use as much as they want. But clearly, an opportunity like this is likely never happening again. Your exclusive advantages will still be there for you, you paid for it, and no one is being “better than you”, just stop minding othe people’s business, no one is supposed to be harmed, your real money was converted into good utility stuff for yourself (just like mine), the game is not P2W (yet), so there’s no “power” been given away. (honestly if it had the game would die quickly). All the stuff are costumes and utility.

The compensation will literally only adjust accordingly and fairly to people who bought Tokens in the past from packs, nothing more, nothing less. I really tried to explain to you, just like many people here, and you refused to understand how the economy in-game works. Look, I’m not a salty “free user”, I have bought packs and stuff, but I do understand completely what IMC is doing, they are not INSANE to deliver “free power”, free TP, do charity or whatever. Everything makes sense, keep that in mind. Good luck bro, don’t let your ego be greater than yourself.

TL;DR: You’re delusional to call someone else small minded.

#80

i worked hard and bought all 5 founders packs, as well as the Beginner’s and Veteran’s pack, and i’m trying to resist buying more TP right now just because.

lmao, and how’s this going to work for you after a week from now?

nevermind that the price of those packs was cheaper than the base amount of TP included, meaning that everything else in the pack was basically a free bonus.

you haven’t even LOOKED at the price of TP yet, have you.
500TP = $57.83 CDN, or after conversion, it should be about 39.70€
that’s about 1TP for 11.6 cents, or 0.08€ … 49€ is about 0.12€ per tp, meaning your math, or your payments are off by 50%.

i bought -all- the founders’ packs, just because the contents included (especially after the 50% discount) were just so cheap.
spending $155.04 CDN got me 2,410 TP. (not including beg. or vet. packs) – 106.39€
that’s even cheaper, at 6.4 cents/tp or 0.044€/tp.
…and that doesn’t even account for the value of the other items included with the bundles.

“i spent 49€ therefore i wasted 100€ .” …what?
if you’d “wasted” 100€ you would have been able to buy -all- of the DLC bundles that were available for founders, not just two of them.

you’ve degraded from an illogical rant based on poor assumptions… straight into purely making sh!t up.

whenever they do this people flood the forums crying "why weren’t we told sooner!"
you’d be on here too, whining away about all the people who have just bought a token at the higher price and “they should have been told so they could wait to buy it”.

as a person who bought ALL of the DLC packs, i find your opinions to be mistaken, and selfish. i also find your understanding of economics to be terribly lacking.

the ones who bought it agreed to buy it at that price based on the “Real Money” value of that token. if the token cost half as many TP to purchase, most buyers would not have been willing to spend the same amount of silver on them

you aren’t asking for respect, you’re asking for free stuff.
events, let the players work for it, etc… you just want to be given TP for playing the game.
… actually, guess what, you already are! you earn 1 tp every 4 hours (whether you’re playing or not) until you reach the cap of 5 TP.

…and after chopping out a -lot- of things, i’m cutting it here, because this is just breaking down into sound bites of uselessness.