There’s just one too many pitiful fanboy that just don’t understand the meaning of this topic.
I’ve had enough of the arguments, to sum it all up, lets just see how the game stand for a year.
It’ll be fun for some, in a few months.
Eventually people will start quitting the game, and go look for something worthwhile to play.
RO remains the best 2D/3D-themed MMORPG. ToS, just doesn’t have it.
Support the game as much as you’d like, but a bad game is a bad game, nonetheless.
Replace it by RO ‘fanboys’ and you’ll never gonna end up nowhere.
As a RO player I agree but the game isn’t that perfect. [quote=“johashahrezza, post:143, topic:96341”]
Support the game as much as you’d like, but a bad game is a bad game, nonetheless.
[/quote]
If TOS doesn’t turn out what I expect, what can I do? I’ll wait 5-10 years or more expecting something good from the developers or other publisher and have fun. Meanwhile I just can feedback them waiting for changes.
Some people here got all worked up whenever someone compares tos to ro. They said tos was not ro. And im going to say U may disagree or get upset all u want but, before i leave this game Im going to compare all i want here until i feel satisfied that the message get across.Then u guys can have this server for yourself and be happy with less lag and u can solo all u want to your heart’s content. I was also here because everyone said its a spiritual successor of ro so i was eagerly and patiently waiting… Honestly, if its not because of that, i wont be here at all. There i said it. …
i totally feel your pain! Ive been jumping from one mmropg to another all these while …looking for the magic that RO1 once created ,but to no avail. What is it with RO1 tht after all these yrs people are still looking for something like it. The game play? The system? What system exactly? Funny , its hard to really point out in plain words what “magic” all the exro players were talking about. I think that “magic” lies deeper than what meets the eyes. The core of it, the essence of why people love and loyal to an mmo is what the devs need to acknowledge if they want a real success. At the moment TOS looks like a cool anime MMO at a superficial level, with good graphic,class system and combat system but it lacks “soul”. It feels empty.
No 1. I am most bothered by the linear quest based system where people just solo play the quests. Initially i didnt mind it but after a while, i cant be bothered with the story line and begin to question for what?? Just to level to max? its too repetitive. Grinding was unrewarding too because u know the monsters drop Nothing really rare nor valuable in the long run. Everyone running over to the same location,npc and going through the same thing, yet were totally strangers as if each living in their own lonely parallel universe. True, it beats the whole purpose of MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game.
In striking contrast, RO was a real community, people greet each other by their names to the extent of recognizing other player’s alternate toon characters. People bond and made friendship and some group of people may even hate and fight and compete at every level, MVP or castle siege, but its all part of a real community. The team competition was one of the main Xfactor that made ro fun for a long long time.The team work was REAL. and people play together and stayed loyal for years. Why? Its because the game was created like that, in an OPEN WORLD like ro, no one can survive alone, people discover the world of ro together as friends. They started bonding from day one, popping up in Prontera asking for help and later help others.Just like in real world, unless you r a psycho or weirdo who lives alone in the jungle, its human nature to be much much happier interacting with other human beings. This, in my opinion is the psychology of MMO that many forgot, the essence of why there were so many loyal fans of ro.
Next, getting to max level is only the beginning in ro, The fun just started. Now the real joy begins. There are personal goals to achieve and team goals to aspire to. The competition was REAL . No pain no gain. U work hard to get yourself the ultimate gear so that u can join in the war between guilds with dignity or for payback time to that jerk who kept killing and thrashing u last week. Also because, after all the help u got, u dont want to let your team mates down. U want to be someone decent enough who people can rely on. Each player job was really needed to make the guild and community functioning. For example, priestesses were not just there for nuthing, they were a strong part of the group, without them, your team dies. Everyone had a role and everyone matters. Even weird jobs like dancers and bards matters. In RO Its your reputation that u need to build from scratch. So all the hard work and grinding actually had BIG purpose in RO and REWARDING whether for your gear or fun purposes like making cute hats. Its also rewarding “financially” where players had a major role in the economy of the game.
At max level u still can collect noob stuff, kill noob monsters and made a lot of money. Unlike TOS, the noob maps u used to wander still had good purpose no matter what lvl u r at. At times u need to go back to it. For example, today u may want to collect items for your new fashion hat, Next day u can go somewhere else and grind that card u want or make potions…do business in market or compete at MVP with friends versus other teams, or help your team get prepared for the upcoming weekly war.
Also the boss monsters were no joke. They really kick your a**. If u r new to it, u had to try many times and get to know its style, then organize a strategy with your friends on how to tackle it. Different teams may do different ways, its up to your team’s judgement and creativity. In some private servers u even had to bring a huge group because of PVP and competition with other teams. Again and again the game keeps reminding u of those ultimate gear u need to avail , the money u need to accumulate, …etc etc…which drive u to keep playing, like a vicious cycle.It felt very satisfying after all your hard work eg with boss, u get rewarded well with valuable rare drops.
Ro had So much variety so much freedom so many friends! so cute the monsters! So many hats! SOB thats what i missed!
In TOS, with max level at 600, it seems that all u r going to be doing in game is finishing those excruciatingly repetitive solo quests or grind with no other purpose until u bang your head on the keyboard… The boss monster u acquire through quests u cant go back to and they were too easy. Self reputation and dignity? What for, nobody knows even if u get spanked by a cockroach since u just solo alone in your own universe. IMO…THAT is the difference.
Thats my opinion . U may disagree. No im not going to go play ro because after more than 10 years im expecting people to make something at least 5 times better and im willing to pay money for it, but too bad. I do sincerely wish TOS success because it s still developing and does have some good points altho not for me. Thank u for reading.
I’m sorry but your opinion is completely ignoring the fact that this is BETA and that RO started out just the same, as a shi~tty beta that was broken and buggy.
The biggest problem with all the complaints on this forum is that you’re all trying to get the same feeling as a game you played for years and barely giving this game a few days or less of a chance.
You people are just wrong.
honestly, the sheer hypocrisy of all of you only complaining over and over is just ridiculous.
you don’t know what lies ahead.
RO’s end-game was PVP WoE, it had nothing else going for it - all the stuff they added was always the same - grindy maps and stupid overpowered MVPs that you needed specific things against.
It was incredibly limiting.
^
Pitiful die hard fan
You were a bad player of RO and so you blame the game instead of yourself? Nice one.
Stupid overpowered MVPs that you needed specific things against? You mean parties? Yeah. That’s generally how team play works. Though I can see why no one wanted to play with you.
Or did you mean race/size/element-specific equipment? Yeah. That’s how an economy works: If you need something, you either get it yourself, buy it or do without it. Money is made by those willing to hunt the items and sell it to people too lazy to do one or the other. If you cannot do without it, well then you’re a combination of lazy and stupid, and don’t deserve to kill the boss and by extension don’t get the rewards for it.
RO’s end-game is only PvP or WoE if that’s your thing. And there’s a lot of that “thing” available. In my 9+ years of RO I did my share of PvP, usually in the Battlegrounds. I certainly never played the game just to get to max level and kill other people, there are entire genres of games devoted to that, that don’t require levelling and equipment hunting. Games where you can yell like a crazy religious nut and pull out your e-peen and wave it around and no one will mind. If you couldn’t do that there, well it just means you suck at another genre of games.
Now, I played RO back in the Beta so I know exactly what was in the game back then. From the new addition of Izlude and Aldebaran to the original Old_Payon map. Mobs didn’t have skills and card drops varied based on the strength of the monster. A level 70 knight could solo Moonlight Flower with nothing more than 80 white potions.
Such is the case with all games: It was a trial period as new content was added, monsters improved, spawns adjusted and classes balanced.
ToS has already passed that point for most of those aspects. If IMC was going to do all that, they would’ve done it a lot earlier, after the kCBT1 in fact. They’ve already made their decisions on these poorly made island-and-bridge maps, fixed spawns, AoE-food mobs, linear equipment, linear economy and terrible linear quests. We already have 80+ maps, tiny towns, recolored mobs all using the wrong skills and quests with a storyline only a retarded child could write.
RO beta didn’t have second jobs and VIT made you immortal at 99 VIT.
Then there was Beta 2 with 2nd jobs and more stuff and all the stats changes.
So again, if you guys don’t like ToS and like to throw “linearity” as an excuse, just leave. Stop bothering the rest of us.
I did lv 1-50 on a cleric, did the dungeon a few times and hit lv 65.
From there I decided to go out of my way to other maps - starting with one of the first “off-path” maps, Gytis Settlement. Did a few quests, found mobs weak to holy and slaughtered plenty, then explored the high level maps that you’re not supposed to go to yet and made my way to the city of Fedimian. Didn’t have any issue going there and exploring the maps to get there.
Sure if I wanna quest I gotta go back to maps closer to my level range and if I want to advance the main story - well guess what - I gotta follow it through because obviously a main story would be linear, thats how stories work. You guys are too dense and stuck-up with that “ITS ALL LINEAR” attitude.
No, its not.
Maybe at one point I’ll hit an invisible barrier stopping me from going to a map that needs main story to unlock, then I’ll just have to do it.
What the F is wrong with this?
And whats wrong with the “bridge and islands” maps? It gives great visual and wastes much much less space of boring flat plains.
What you think the game is missing is only in your mind.
I’m not saying it can’t be better, everything can be better, but you all are attacking non-issues that won’t be changed.
Main story linearity is obvious - that’s story-telling. If you want a multi-path story, I can’t think of a game that has done that well enough without spending a ton of resources or having it as a feature from the start - there definitely aren’t a ton. The majority of RPGs have very few choices that will alter the entire storyline. Same with books, when you read Harry Potter, the story is linear. Only certain books (which I used to read when I was young) give you an odd multi-path choice and its a pain in the ass. Turn to page 482, you die. Now you go back to the previous page and choose the other path, etc. You guys are all making “linearity” into a bigger thing than it is. Its not an issue.
As for non-main story quests, there are plenty and you can access them just by going to the map and being in the correct level range. Plus there are many “secrets” (aka wait until someone else finds it and posts the walkthrough) to be found, maybe you’ll find one yourself.
As for the end of your post:
Island-and-bridge maps are not an issue, you just don’t like it, go play something else
Fixed spawns I can agree on being somewhat an issue depending on what you mean, almost every MMO is like that and so was RO so … what do you mean exactly? The only fixed spawn that should change is that big red kepa mini-boss and probably some places where people can “AFK Attack” but thats about it?
AoE-food mobs… do you mean that its all about mobbing stuff to level fast? So was RO? You really don’t give enough detail about the issues you think there are.
Linear equipment… like in any game where you have leveling equipment? Like any RPG out there?
Linear economy … what? I’m not sure I’m following you here again, the economy moves around what people need and the feature, yes feature, of making purchased stuff untradable and equipment having a limit of transfers (though potential 0 items can still be crafted into new things) is great - other MMOs have an incredibly irritating economy where you have to follow everything every day to keep ahead and then there’s those playing the market to make profit, turning it into a mini-game that others can’t play without having the big bucks.
Linear quests… I already said enough in this post about how non-issue this is.
The world map is pretty big and doesn’t seem to even go to lv500+ yet http://www.tosbase.com/game/world-map/
Tiny towns… what? Again I might as well refer to RO here again - Most of them were also very small and cluttered with merchants with a few gathering spots for guilds? Sure there were many many towns but at the end of the day, the majority of them were empty for the most part of the day with only sections of certain towns being used a lot. Sooo you’re bringing up an issue with “tiny towns” when its no issue at all…
recolored mobs are seen in almost every game ever made so whats your problem man? Do you just whine to whine?
“using wrong skills” - ? Whats this about… sigh
The problem with the storyline is that the translation is most definitely missing a ton of flavor that would make it better but its not a big epic story like FFXIV, I can grant you that. FFXIV has a dedicated translation AND localization team which add smart replies and cultural references here and there to make it seem like it was written for the English-speaking population first. Its too bad that IMC isn’t as big as Squenix and probably don’t care enough to get a proper translation, so you’re going to get the very basic story which might be a whole lot better if you (or I even) could read and understean Korean (damned Asian languages are complicated~ and I’m lazy)
Sooo anyway, keep on bashing me for giving this game a chance but you’re clearly just spewing complaints over nothing for the most part.
The only valid points I can see are the channels and spawning issues (1 channel low spawn maps for example) and maybe there could be a few additional optional maps per x level range to spice things up when you’ve gone through it once, starting maybe at lv50+ or something but for now the game lets you go through it at a reasonable pace with enough quests and mobs except for certain level ranges.
However until we see the full extent of the “600 levels” game, we cannot judge it properly.
It also depends on what will be available once you reach max level and if there are any alternatives for alt characters than doing the same pattern.
Linear does not = bad. This game is more story-driven than RO, so of course with any story you are going to be guided through it.
RO was very sandbox-like with its open world and complete lack of quests, but even Gravity realized that people want the world to interact with them so they made some quests in their game.
I still feel like I can go and travel the world if I want to do so, and there are RO-like dungeons where it isn’t quest-driven. I feel this game is a good balance between RO’s open-ness and ye standard theme park.
Supporters like you guys already exists during the RO2 launch.
We reviewers look at whats good and whats bad.
If there’s good, we’ll list them down, vice-versa for bad areas.
You go on supporting the game for a year, let’s see how long you’ll last in the game till you break.
I dont feel free while I play ToS. Too many missions, and everybody doing the same thing… Bored…
Saw this today in a post on FB. They are still using RO as a bait to attract players to ToS. They start with “Remember your old good memories with Poring” to bring RO memories, then list a few caracteristics we also had in RO to show people they both have a lot in common, and they go on saying this game is from the creator of RO, it is 2.5D just like RO, and so on… That’s what I was talking about. This is not like RO. Not a problem to list a few caracteristics of the game in an image and publish it, just stop comparing to RO while showing only the similarities.
The only thing i am afraid of at the moment is that some people want a faster lvl progression. I am not sure if iam even in the right forum part here to talk about this, if so i am sorry its quite late already :P(i know bad excuse).
I just wanted to say that i have played most MMOs/MMORPGs(which sadly most were not) in the last few years. If you increase the experience gain in a game that is based on grinding levels, with little other content to keep players occupied you will eventually destroy the game and people will leave.
I see this trend for example in blade and soul. I bought the highest tiered founders pack with the exp boost. This exp boost effectively ruined the game, because every time you did a quest you were 2-4 levels above the quest level and it was no challange whatsoever.
I agree that TOS should be less linear, and possibly you should be able to skip the main questline if you have already completed those quests with another character. But the more urgent issue for me is that you need more socializing stuff. From what i have seen, long grinding is actually good for socializing. I would compare it to slowboating to the next gate or mining in eve online. When people see they cant rush through content, they either quit or adapt. The letter giving rise to enormous socializing possibilites within the community. People start randomly chatting with one another to give just one example. We need game mechanics that support socializers and we need to prevent the possibility to rush through the game within a few weeks.
Add content that has nothing to do with the level process itself. Or at least implement strong unique drops that can only be accessed by excessive teamwork within large groups of players/guilds.
The community in eve online for example is as mature as it is, because things take time and every player plays the game in a different way. I don’t expect TOS to have the same complexity as Eve Online, but the community can be just as mature and helpful as it is in Eve. And except that one guy here that wants to troll people i find it wonderful that everyone tries to help improving the game by providing valuable feedback.
This game could be big. Lets help make it so!
Thanks IMC for the wonderful beta and keep staying in contact with the community. It will benefit all of us!
Cheers,
Chillhausen
Comparing to RO, it has been more disappointment.
As I post on another thread, few things that they went opposite of the success trend:
I have a reason to believe that there is some dynamic mob spawning/multiplier in effect for more player populated maps. I went to Demon Prison 2F some days before the beta ended. There was a massive difference between the mobs spawned per pack when there was a few parties on the map vs. when I went there in the early afternoon (I was basically the only person on the map). I think what they would need to do is reduce the amount of influence that player population on a map has in regard to mob spawns, and just bump up the base spawn rate to compensate.
That way players who arrive on a map at a less populated time won’t feel as shafted (due to having far less spawns). If a person multi boxed a bunch of characters on a map (assuming the scaling has a fairly high limit), then in theory he could turn any map into a decent grind map provided it has a decent base mob count.
It depends. There are two things going on here:
If you have more people in your party, more mobs will spawn on you in groups. Get in a party of 5, and you should see the same increased spawn, regardless of the number of people total on the map.
Mobs don’t heavily respawn in the same area if you keep killing them there ( except for certain special areas ). You need to travel around and kill mobs in many areas in order to ‘refresh’ the spawn in a single area. If there are many people on the map, they are doing the job for you. If there are less, you need to do this job yourself.
I don’t believe there is actually a mechanism that creates more spawn on a map for there being more people on the map, only the first thing I listed is happening, and that’s just for parties. ( 100 solo players on a map shouldn’t increase the spawn rate at all. ) Also to address your example with someone multi boxing, the increased spawn for a 5-man party doesn’t apply to the whole map - there is simply a chance that a large group of mobs will spawn on the party itself. This shouldn’t affect other players too much.
O.K. So here’s my two cents. I played RO fifteen years ago when it first came out, and the only reason I am playing this game is because I liked RO so much. So I am a fan, but I believe that I can make an informed opinion without letting my personal bias interfere. First things first: This is a beta! You guys have some extremely unrealistic expectations for a game that is in its infancy when comparing it to a game that has been around for fifteen years… I’m not saying that it will be or won’t be like RO; I’m saying that it is way too soon to determine.
What made RO, RO to me was the community. At the time I played the game the server had 500~1000 people on it. I don’t know the actual number, but you knew all the guilds and all of the people in the guilds. I play MMOs now and I’m shocked if I know more than 10 people. RO just seemed way more connected and personal than any of the other MMOs I’ve played. You sure as hell didn’t have any of the crap that we had when ToS initially launched with all of the negativity and racism… But that’s a whole other thing and I won’t get into that.
People are complaining about lack of freedom and overcrowding because everyone is on the same quest. Again, I think this is a bit of an unfair critique. The community in RO was much smaller due to the fact that it was a niche game back than. I don’t know the exact size of the amount of people who were able to participate in this CBT, but I am going to assume that there were more than a thousand? What happens when you have a thousand cars on a 4 lane highway trying to get to the same place at the same time? You get a massive traffic jam. What do you think happens when you try to accommodate a few thousand people, trying to do the same thing, with only 4 servers in beta mode no less…?
I will admit that RO did have more freedom in that each town (Morroc, Izlude, Payon, etc…) seemed to have its own leveling maps for different leveling ranges. You could find a level 20~30 map in 2 to 4 places, and that was nice and offered variety as well.
WOE, I loved it. PVP, I loved it. I don’t know if those kind of elements will be introduced in ToS, but it was a lot of fun and got the guilds to come together and again reinforced the strong community that RO had.
Grinding vs. questing: For me, I like to quest. If I have to vertwall 10,000 argrigopes again in order to obtain 1.5% EXP, I’m going to shoot myself. I will not be missing that at all. Although I do now all of a sudden find myself a bit nostalgic for grandcrossing a massive mob of Loli Ruris and Bloody Muderers in Niffelheim. Damn I loved that map when it first came out…lol. Still, don’t want to grind if I don’t have to ever again…
People keep talking about all of the maps they were utilizing in RO because they had all of this freedom. I don’t know what game you were playing, but I can vividly remember killing these particular things: porings, rockers, agrigopes, high orcs, loli ruris, bios stuff. I don’t know what 30 maps you guys were on, but according to my math I was on 6 maps…? And I farmed the **** out of these maps. It was not fun. Not fun at all. Really, really, really, holy crap, god all mighty, not fun at all!!!
Anyway, it sounds like a lot of the complaints can be solved with time and a small amount of patience. I for one will be playing this game when it goes live. There’s a lot to like and a solid enough foundation for me to give it a chance.
Yea, I do know about spawn cycling (other players killing mobs for you). While I can’t provide hard concrete data for my observations, it would also be quite hard for me to simply dismiss it as spawn cycling. That said, I often soloed my way through Demon Prison 2F on my swordsman alt. I usually ran from room to room to avoid the party “killsteal” train. 
There were areas where parties didn’t venture too often, so I don’t think it would be #1 where they would simply just let mobs that spawned on them live. Some of it could be spawn cycling though. That said, during the peak times, the rooms are usually not that empty as you can usually find 10-20 stragglers in a given room/area.
When I actually happened to be there during the early afternoon when no one was in there (except for one afk person at the statue). I toured entire floor a couple times just to get a rough idea of the difference of spawns… it feels a bit too drastic of a change. It would be hard to believe the difference in mob counts in general would just be #1 (parties abandoning spawns that drop right on them) and #2 that so much cycling happens that it appears that every room is extremely mobby.
Hmm it does seem to make a huge difference though. In CBT1, when everyone was stuck at Tenet Garden, I could just sit in one of the areas and farm endlessly, since I knew everyone else was somewhere on the map killing. Same with Demon Prison, if the map was full of people I could just take a room and farm there without caring too much. But as soon as 1 or 2 of the room-camping parties left, I would almost instantly notice the spawn dying down and know to start moving around.
People are complaining about lack of freedom and overcrowding because
everyone is on the same quest. Again, I think this is a bit of an unfair
critique.
I will admit that RO did have more freedom in that each town (Morroc,
Izlude, Payon, etc…) seemed to have its own leveling maps for
different leveling ranges. You could find a level 20~30 map in 2 to 4
places, and that was nice and offered variety as well.
This is a big deal for a lot of people, and simply adding more channels doesn’t fix it. It does mitigate overcrowding, but not the freedom part, plus adding more channels has its own issues, especially if they have a field boss spawn on it as well. That alone could have an effect on the economy due to extra bosses that can be farmed. With that said, in RO each class had their own leveling areas so competition for mobs was mostly with other people that were the same class as you (rather than every class). From a min/max point of view I wouldn’t say there was that much freedom in terms of which maps you went to for leveling up though.
I think we would have a bit more map flexibility (without having to add more maps) if the mob exp scaling was looked at and changed. The whole exp penalty for killing mobs 5 or more levels under you only exists because of how little the exp scales as the level/hp of the mob goes up. The exp penalty can be removed if they design proper mob exp scaling because players will then migrate to higher level mobs on their own when they start to feel that the mobs they’re killing aren’t quite as good anymore, and its more preferable since it’s the player making the decision rather than the game just saying “ok, we’re just docking exp from you now”.
Grinding vs. questing: For me, I like to quest. If I have to vertwall
10,000 argrigopes again in order to obtain 1.5% EXP, I’m going to shoot
myself. I will not be missing that at all.
I don’t mind grinding as long as its fun. I will be honest here, as I leveled up a level 200 wizard, 200 swordsman, 148 wizard, and 60 wizard (lol) in this beta. I tried changing my grinding maps somewhat (it’s possible at the lower levels if you try a bit), but once you hit 145+, you really don’t have good options. There are other maps, but the efficiency is pretty low in comparison. Of course, it depends on what class you are and such. But as far as I know, Demon Prison is a pretty hard place to avoid as it’s pretty rich in exp provided that it’s not too crowded.
Ideally it would be nice to have an open world dungeon every 10 levels or so. If that isn’t possible then at least provide more alternate maps that can be used. I do feel like the exp gained from quests is quite high compared to killing mobs, even when they had the 2x mob exp rate. Truthfully, I felt like the 2x exp event from mobs actually made the higher level mobs (120-130 and beyond), feel like they kept up with the exp scaling. It also means you simply pick mobs that you can kill the most of in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of difficulty, as the exp reward is pretty much constant for a given level unless it’s an elite or so.
Take the 145-165 grind that became quite popular. I walked into Demon Prison 2F and basically thought that hey… ignoring the exp penalty and Harugals, I will have to kill 54,363 mobs on that floor since they all give the same exp (minus the Harugals).
People keep talking about all of the maps they were utilizing in RO
because they had all of this freedom. I don’t know what game you were
playing, but I can vividly remember killing these particular things:
porings, rockers, agrigopes, high orcs, loli ruris, bios stuff.
As far as min-maxing went, yeah, there wasn’t that many maps (linear in that respect). But you at least had the option to pick a less efficient map though. A lot of the maps in RO were unused anyway cause they weren’t useful or good for anything (no MVPs, good exp mobs, etc). They simply just existed there to make the world feel larger, which is not necessarily a bad thing though.
