Tree of Savior Forum

My feedback on linear progression and other stuff

Gameplay Feedback Quest/MIssion
#123

The only problem I have is the quantity of mobs in seemingly every map. I’m only 102 at the moment, but the only thing that seems to impede grinding for me is the number of mobs on a map. I have enough issues trying to complete quests that require a certain amount of mobs, I tried grinding for a short bit and could never gather enough mobs to make my CDs worthwhile (wizard tree). I love Tenant Chapel, the quantity there was great. Every map doesn’t need to be as choked up with mobs, but an increase to it would be nice.

Even the very first map a new character arrives on seems to have more mobs than any map after it.

As far as quests gating content. I’m fine with content gated by quests (RO did this a lot), but I’d probably prefer it being gated by side quests instead so people wouldn’t have to follow the main story line in order to unlock maps.

As it is, I’m fine with the Linear aspect. I know at one point at like 125+ it opens up more for grinding, so I’ll wait and see what happens.

Either way, I’m enjoying it quite a bit. I’ve been duoing with a friend and we’ve been having fun with our theory crafting. Been a long time since I’ve had to theory/build craft in a game.

2 Likes
#124

Also, looks like mobs lower level than you give 0 EXP or close to it. I can’t say for sure cause that EXP roulette is gone but. Grinding some mobs for crafting materials, no change in percent after 30 mins. 25 levels below me. God did they make some terrible friggen choices with this game… Just stick to the path they set, guys. Over and over. Sounds like great fun.

#125

You get exp penalty of 5% for every level below 5 level of yours. And the same for level above yours.

1 Like
#126

Ok i am hapy uou stoped fircing your self.
As for room to improve thrn yes.the “linearity” is just not it.
But i hope that one dayvsome one will do an old school mmorpg like you want.
Ohh and in thevold days of mmo story whas not a thing at all.quests was not a thing as well. lineage 2 and wow was the games tha made quests and story a thing.

#127

And its one of the thing they need 2 fix.butbthey did it soblvl 100 will not farm in lvl 20 mapbmaking lvl 20 nobwhere to do so.its a thing that is hard 2 fix.

#128

It’s really not a valid reason. Dark Souls is a series that thrives on throwing the player into the middle of nowhere and forcing them to figure stuff out on their own, and that series is lauded as a masterpiece of game design, even though it simply sticks true to tired and true game design principles.

If a player doesn’t know what to do, in an ideal MMO they would either check a wiki or ask another player. That sort of thing creates community. It creates interaction. Being railroaded by quests on the other hand simply detracts from what it means to be an MMO experience.

I don’t think quests should be removed, but they need to be less transparent and less linear. RO had tons of quests all around that were totally worth doing. You had to find them, and they were often really hard or confusing, but it felt fantastic once you figured them out and did them. they didn’t always reward EXP - sometimes they gave you important stuff that was way more useful. Shortcuts to great leveling areas, access to an NPC who would allow you to craft nice consumable items, etc.

You say you want the game to be RO+, but right now it’s RO Lite.

4 Likes
#129

The job quests in RO was very interesting…I remembered making a dancer and can’t get the steps right, I had to queue in line again (and again and again) with the other dancer aspirants until i succeeded in my job change. Yes, it frustrating but at the same time rewarding.

1 Like
#130

Omg some post rly make me cry , when i remembered those days in ro.

i rly would like that they change how the stats scale work every lvl , i prefer that the give us more stats to put per lvl like 5 points or something like that and erase that “auto” def , atk, and the others stuff get boosted if the do it in that way there will be more unique characters and more deep and interesting pvp and pve and erase that penalty exp for diferent lvls plus put some more mobs and more agresive mobs.

#131

:expressionless:

1 Like
#132

I am not in favor of taking away linear content but I am in favor of adding more hidden content for explorers and over-achievers.

1 Like
#133

Adding “hidden” content while keeping the linear content still leaves the game as linear, only made easier.

1 Like
#134

I agree. Quests are cool but only if it’s not forced on the players.

1 Like
#135

Well what you’re asking for is for them to tear the game down and start from scratch. I would just move on, there are umpteen open world survival games out there that should give you a similar feeling to what you’re asking for, not to mention mmo sandboxes like MO and Darkfall (which are bafflingly not doing well), it’s just a shame there aren’t any that are anime/fantasy flavor.

#136

i read the steam greenlight of TOS http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=441500423
they define the features of the game like this :

Major Characteristics :
Distinct Style
Massive Scale
Degree of Freedom

Degree of Freedom :
Various combinations are possible with different jobs, skills and stats
Players do not need to follow the fixed routes

i think IMC is mistaken coz i cant feel the degree of freedom on this game. but the thing here is they plan to make it that way so i think they will fix this linearity.
this gave me hope

#137

“Degree of Freedom”
That’s pretty silly. I won’t pretend that this game is something it’s not. Between the linearity and the fact that early classes fall off later so that your overall build means jack all, freedom is the last thing I think of.

Edit: I see your point now and I think it’s possible that things could branch out as you reach lvl 100-200 within their launch ready product. It’s possible that we have been playing a giant tutorial this whole game. :stuck_out_tongue:

#138

Again, quests are absolutely fine. There’s nothing wrong with quests if they are intelligently designed, don’t railroad the player, and have interesting rewards that impact your overall experience of the game in the bigger picture.

A bunch of ‘just for EXP’ quests are fine. But I want quests like the Amatsu dungeon or Moscovia unlocking. Quests that feel like they open up the world for you.

Less of these “pick plant with a 10% chance of success and bleed + aoe enemy aggro effect” quests that they seem rather fond of.

(i)RO had its share of terribly designed quests and tended to rely too much on RNG for RNG’s sake, but the good quests were what made the experience memorable for me. I saw some shades of this kind of design in some of ToS’s grinding dungeons like Mausoleum Constructor’s Chapel, which has a few fun dungeon-specific mechanics, but I really think they can step this aspect up significantly for the fully released game or in future updates.

2 Likes
#139

The staff actually read those feedbacks?
Don’t wanna be a douche, but, there is a lot of folks telling the same feedback… Could be me that not saw too many topics… but i don’t seen even once IMC staff asnwer those questions…
I would love to have a open game, with more cities… But, Tree Of Savior is really a good game to play as it is… But really would be nice… Well, Anyways… I agree with the topic. (Less obligatory quests, more about a player making his/her own story)

#140

I don’t see the linearity people see…

all am seen in terms of quest is a branching , but people are so stuck in their path that they forget to look around and bh them…

#141

That was very bad design on RO’s part, the fact that you liked it shows you’ve a poor understanding of game designs.

Plus all the data mining and community forums will have all the info available in a jiffy.
And you were barely able to do any kind of exploration in RO without finding a good enough source of zeny to spam fly wings or have the teleport skill as Acolyte. Too many things could wreck you fast especially ranged stuff.

If it werent for mechanics abuse of things like Firewall that enabled you to SKIP a ton of content and tackle on ridiculously higher level monsters then it wouldn’t even have been any fun.

All the fights were the same, even the MVPs - they’re all the same but a minor difference in what skills and elements they use.

You guys are allowed to Nostalgia over RO but do not put it on a pedestal it doesn’t belong on. It was fun but it was also critically flawed.

#142

Many people misunderstand the point of the topic, because the OP has used many RO’s references and others agreed, I don’t blame them (I myself can’t help it), but let us leave aside these references and analyze the facts.

OPEN WORLD AND LINEARITY:

It is true TOS right now feels more like a RPG offline than a MMO, where the player is guided by a storyline, interacting with NPCs who tried to be alike companions (considering boss fights and other cutscenes), receiving items, equipments, money and etc for progression, that’s not bad at all. Actually this is very encouraging for new players.

On other hand the storyline always guide you as a unique and last ‘Savior’ of the world, leaving MMO’s aspect outside of scene most of the time, what it’s bad. There is no roleplay on this, you don’t feel to interact to other people instead you are obligated cause can’t defeat such boss or complete such quest. Most players want to be solo or party up with mates who already know. Also you don’t feel empathy for any NPC or character and there’s the fact it’s boring do always the same route every time you create a new character.

Other point I saw people complaining about its the lack freedom to choose where to go, what to do, do grind, do quest, do whatever they want, and in fact there is no such choice cause you are always stuck on the main quest to continue progressing, there is no side quest capable to catch attention.

I understand this is BETA and TOS’s not complete yet, but with a HUGE variety of classes there should be at least a back story for each branch. A questline for class change where the player could feel involved, not just in main story, as also in its roleplay and could start from another point with another class, cause there is no reason I could try Wizard where the back story its the same as Swordman, Cleric or Archer. This will make exploring more interesting.

(One comparision: Skyrim, which yet is an offline RPG storyline based, has many side quests based on your roleplay. Thieve’s Guild, College of Winterhold, The Companions, Dark Brotherhood, etc.)

This game has an incredible capacity to be amazing and you developers has the potential, even so Tree of Savior is in its crude form and has more to improve.

Sorry for my bad english.