Tree of Savior Forum

My feedback on linear progression and other stuff

Gameplay Feedback Quest/MIssion
#163

Well, if I want to treat the information from tosbase as being accurate for Demon Prison 2F.

Then I can say for sure that I’ve seen much more than just 3 Harugals during peak time with many players on the map (even in areas where there are no other players, but just me solo). So there definitely seems to be a multiplier of some kind that is going on. It might be possible that it’s a side effect of what you stated in #1 where a full group gets additional spawns dropping on them, where if they kill them those additional spawns get sent elsewhere on the map (regardless if the person is partied).

When I think of it that way though it seems like a really complex approach to compensating for player counts when it would be far easier to just have their spawn script say something like: if playercount > 15 then map_mobs * 3; or something like that.

#164

Because the monsters are easier to kill, and you can solo them, that makes most of the MMO games a solo based game. Back in the RO days, it is hard to level in GH Underprison by yourself, and you are hardly killing 3 at the same time. Also, the map is interesting with monsters that counter the other built. You have Zombie Prisoner that is the easiest target for Priest, but you have Hunter Fly that is hard to kill by Priest, or Injustice that can easily kill a Priest.

The game was designed to party (indirectly, hinted), and no difference than going into a dungeon. This is why the community is closer, because you NEED a partner.

#165

First of all, I want to thank IMC for delivering this great MMORPG to us players and allowing me to participate in the iCBT2! It was a fantastic experience (excluding the ongoing bugs, glitches, and exploits, but this is still in beta), and I’d love to join in future tests!

Secondly, I completely agree with OP. As a person that loved RO and still do, I feel that while ToS is already a great game, it still can’t compete with RO in the core game-play aspect.

The quest system in ToS makes the game too linear. The quests guide you through the game and literally tells you what to do, where to do it, and how to do. You are given very limited freedom, and if you want to explore or move on, you can’t, because if you don’t do the quests, you can’t advance any further than the quests allow you to. You’re chained by the quest chain. In RO, you never had to follow a main quest line, like OP pointed out, and you’re free to wander the world with no restrictions (except being in maps that are too strong for your level).

I am OK with there being a quest-line in ToS, but it shouldn’t be forcing every player to follow it, no matter what your class is. You can have everyone start the game at the same location with the same quest, but said quest should only be there to help players with the basic game mechanics; a tutorial on the game-play. Then, after players finish the quest, they should be free to explore the game by themselves at this point without the restriction of the quest-line.

Of course, having sub-quests are extremely important for story-telling, but they can also be for gaining a specific item or equip, access to a certain map, unlocking an achievement, or to simply expand your knowledge on the world of ToS and feel that you’re actually in the game. There shouldn’t be quests that holds your hands through the whole game, making it very repetitive and boring if players were to start again with a new character.

What I’d love, is a ToS with its incredible graphics, sounds, level and class system, and game control and mechanics, but is set in an open world like RO, where players are free to grind, quest, farm for items and silver in a different variety of maps. What ToS currently lack is the exploration, diversity, and immersion in the game. This issue will result in the game having a low re-play value.

Again, thank you very much for offering us a chance to play this beautiful game, and hopefully it will soon reach its maximum potential! :smile:

2 Likes
#166

I’ve got to say, this is what the game is truly lacking. That feeling of exploration in cities and fields, in RO every single map was memorable, and the spawns seemed relevant for the most part also. The open ended open world of RO is something I miss, it can only be found pre renewal. I also strongly felt in RO that certain classes/builds were more efficient against certain monsters. Most every monster had a drop worth grinding for too, at any level range.

The OP summarized my feelings on this perfectly <3

Lets support IMC in hopes that they can pull it off! I think they do understand how it would benefit them.

#167

I don’t know if someone said it in this thread but we will have a new town to begin, Orsha. This city has a main quest too, they will add new maps.

Now we need two more towns with their unique road and it will be ok, I hope.

2 Likes
#168

Problem is, while a step in the right direction, this doesn’t change the fundamental flaw present. Quests are linear, and the only way to effectively progress.

So I can make a new character and follow the linear questline from Klaipeda -> Fedimian or from Orsha -> Fedimian. So what? It’s all just a linear path to follow that I can’t deviate from unless I want to suffer.

I’d rather be able to make a new character, and have 5-6 maps to lvl on with varying difficulties / monsters, and have different choices as I lvl up. What gets me is the current map is already able to support this type of gameplay. They just need to make grinding a viable choice vs. questing, increase spawns on certain maps, and make the lvl limit vs monsters not be so small.

I should be able to kill things +/- 30 lvls from me without exp penalty, and they shouldn’t magically do more damage to me / take 1 damage from me because of lvl difference.

1 Like
#169

My opinion about ToS
Pro

  • Have many different class role (but still can’t beat old games like Ro1, L2, WoW)
  • Awesome BGM

Cons:

  • Imbalance classes
  • Boring animation
  • Stupid mob/boss/pet AI
  • Boring quest, the same with story
  • No challenge dungeons (just mobs with higher stat, i feel it’s even more crap than one of the best crap game Eden eternal)
  • Crafting is too easy and boring (for a old school game, wtf is this crafting system, even bunch of casual online game have better crafting system)
  • Status system is kinda fail (no resist -> prema stun, prema freeze … )
  • Potential system on weapon is kinda fk up ( even more fk up if there 's “potential protection scroll” will sell at the cash shop later )
  • Magic atk is too strong because we lack of magic defense equipment (bad at stat arangement)

and many stupid things that people discover and not listed here … :joy:

2 Likes
#170

I 100% agree with you . This game is like a Diablo where you simply rush the end . And item you get, have no value ( exept arde dagger that need farming to get it and propbably more item but most of them follow your leveling path )

I think the Job Npc need all to be in different place . Bokor close to a graveyard , Priest into a church ( this church can sell some holy stuff ) Pyromancer close to a volcano ect ect . This make feel your character . As you mentioned , Klapeida look like a NPC city with no heart . There is no place to simply walk and chill and fell the moment . Its only a video game , but if im playing ragnarok its because I was able to play it 15h+ a day because it doesnt make me feel its a video game . TOS getting me bored after 2h , you walk and check your map for a flag , you click to npc you do what he ask and you got XP . In ragnarok online you where level 25 at payon cave and if you getted a Archer skeleton card this make you rich , and this make you proud . In TOS nothing impress me because reaching level 200 is simply just so easy . Ofc its a CBT , ill give many chance to this lol .

2 Likes
#171

If you have 4 linear ways, you have 4 maps for lvl 10, then 4 maps for lvl 20… I’m at Klapeida, I finished all the quests from the early lvl, I just have to go to another map in Orsha with the same lvl.

Linear quests are not really a problem, the big problem here is exactly what you are saying : quests are “the only way to effectively progress”. More maps doesn’t solve the problem, but they will give us more freedom if IMC allow us to grind or to do quests.

That’s why, if they do more towns to begin, you will have more maps to grind for each lvl.

++ new maps and everything will be ok.

Sadly, I don’t know if they will change this system. I don’t understand why did they do this mistake, xp system from vanilla RO was good, why did they copy the last RO system which is a total bulshit :cry:.

1 Like
#172
  1. Reason for MMO .

Totally agree with you . Story line make this a Diablo game and a single game players . Most of the time , me and my friends was alone doing quest alone because we were never at the same place…

*Hey what up ?! wanna play tree of savior ? Yess ofc ! but oh…we are not at the same place in storyline , too bad .

#173

Perhaps they should make ToS’ quest line somewhere between linear and non-linear. like create a character, no initial quests will be given to you -> explore -> “accidentally” find a wandering (missable) NPC -> given a quest to slay “x” amounts of monsters -> finish quest -> continue exploring -> slay monsters -> get a notification that you are eligible to start a “hidden” quest after slaying “x” amounts of monsters" -> go to “x” town" -> stumble upon a “curious” item while exploring which would start another “hidden” quest -> decide to finish the latter quest first -> continue into town to finish the former quest -> explore town -> messenger comes after playing “x” amounts of hours or after staying in town for “x” amounts of minutes -> main quest line starts and so on.

Point is: maybe in implementing missable NPCs/Quests, Hidden dungeons, and/or Quest lines only found in places one wouldn’t think of looking, this would create something like “Hey, I’m the first player to have found this quest and I feel good about it”-feeling

#174

I agree .

About killing monster quest I have to say that I feel like playing a cheap game when the npc tell me to kill 7 time the same monster …Where is the challenge xD ? Real Challenge is : Kill 400 of these monster or 400 of another kind . THERE you have a challenge .THERE you proud to finish. I just stop The Elder Scroll Online because the xp is only base on quest and quest are so boring like the CBT2 .Same for WoW , Same for TERA . You talk to a npc , he tell you to burn 5 demonic totem xyz that make the village blablabla . You check on map you have all the location of totem , you simply follow the arrow that show you eeevvvvverrrryyything what you have to do . And when its done you receive the XP and patern restart . This game need to be like ragnarok online 1 because if this game is still alive 14 years laters , its because its a very extra well make game . And if this game going to be a linears Diablo 4 , I will not play it , we will be many I think lol… But as I always say , Its a BETA so hope is there !! :slight_smile:

1 Like
#175

@rafael_clp I completely 100 percent agree with you, many people say “this is an MMORPG, It meet the definition” but as I was playing it didn’t feel like a MMORPG. Many would argue that games like RO1 do not work anymore but thats just not true… there is a reason why the game is still popular and many people still hold it to their heart. I felt the game was extremely linear and tbh extremely annoying and boring to level, I remember in RO1 you can go to any map and mob efficiently or go to dangerous and random dungeons with friends and freak out and die/kill the mobs… it was fun, I felt like it relied too much on questing (which is a huge problem with MMOs now a days). Questing in a game is completely dying, too many MMORPGs are using this system and its just plain boring. also the towns, nothing was special about the towns, Ragnarok 1 towns were so nice and many people sat in the towns talking and enjoying their time because it was still fun to be in the town, ToS seems to miss everything, if anything ToS was a downgrade to Ragnarok 1 in the gameplay section, the graphics on the otherhand complemented and is an upgrade from RO (MORE FLASHY SKILLS FOR MELEE!) but other than that I don’t think ill be playing unless much more is fixed.

My suggestion would be similar to yours, and I hope IMC changes things, I know its a Korean grind game, I know that its not RO1 but it should not be the successor to ragnarok, its so boring and linear is sickening

Questing still can be implemented into the game, just at a more… fun level, RO 1 had quest but had other things to level as well, everything was THE SAME, quest, boss, quest boss, the game doesn’t feel open world more “you have to do this”

2 Likes
#176

I agree with you rafael_clp :wink:

#177

While I do agree that ToS is linear during iCBT2 especially before rank 5, with the new Orsha map it may not be linear anymore.

#178

Nope, i played another mmorpg with a similar setup, 2 starting towns with paths that meet up right away, then 1 linear path for the other 90% of the game. While i’m happy to see IMC making an effort to fix the problems with their game, there are just too many remaining right now, way too many for a game entering open beta. Unless they remake a ton of things like FF14 had to do, i think private servers are my only remaining hope for ToS.

#179

ToS is not that linear after Rank 5, mainly because you can choose what to do.

#180

TOS has a lot of great things going for them like the class system…

Lets talk about improvement.

-Bosses were never easy/solo-able in RO1, they are a joke. Less Bosses, more teamwork.
-Remove feeling of single player game
-More maps where players can have different start-game points.
-No --> Quest-Only Advancement / Boring Quest
-Make Maps FULLY OPEN. Similar to RO1, not bridges and circles.
-Big Main Towns and no soulless NPC BLAST like Klaipeda

Theres always more… Just saw so many more good points from reading up…
…
-Spiritual Successor of RO1 got most people interested here, so wheres the feeling of RO1?

1 Like
#181

And yes, no one are forcing the people to do quest, i saw a lot of players making party for pure grinding in dungeons or solo grinding. Even pure grinding builds everywhere.

If you want 100% grinding, then do it, if you don´t, then questing. simple as that. The IMC folks are not going chance the quest system in any time further.

Also, i no longer have the time I had before when playing RO for spending months in leveling.