Tree of Savior Forum

My comprehensive list of feedback to improve ToS for all types of players

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#89

I guess the case with bosses is: you arent supposed to solo them, grab a bunch of adventures to form a party and start the figh, simple as that, the current quests, wich lead to most of boss fight will hopefuly be reworked to lead to those bosses later on, lets say, we do have side/daily quests. but we may as well get main quests based on region (i said region meaning a bunch of maps would be part of that region), then we party up with others and do the fight, but all this is just a guess/suggestion to make the gameplay more interesting.

I do get what you mean on gameplay as cleric, i played with mine on many boss fights in a party, where some mindless ppl just rush in the boss reach to do extra dmg and disregarding the AoE alert from boss stand in there and take the full blow, dying or almost dying in the end, i ended up release my heals a bit away from the boss so they could heal, but some just pass over all the squares and some ppl on the party end up not healed.

#90

To quote World of Roguecraft: “There is a reason these moves have cooldowns, so you CANT spam them every fight”

Cooldowns are incredibly helpful with class balance since they are another factor you as a developer can control in the balance of your game. Removing cooldowns makes class balance a nightmare as RO devs learned throughout the life of their game. 2-2 classes were designed as hard counters to some 2-1 classes, and monk was supposed to have Asura as their ‘high-cooldown’ move but that failed as well when they got the grand idea to do rebirth.

I would say that these developers adding cooldowns are fixing a very big mistake. They are future proofing their game.

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#91

So Cooldown purpouse is to use all the skills instead of spam the good one? Make all the skills good, each one with a special feature and the player will use them all. For ex, in RO (yeah RO), wizards got SG MS and LoV, they all good and each one with a special use. Nobody spam one, only the noobs did it.

#92

No, the purpose of cooldowns is to balance your game. If there are no cooldowns it makes it difficult to make ‘powerful’ moves costly.

In RO wizards would cycle between SG and MS, and there was usually one wizard spamming LoV to break the freeze and for the blind effect. I would argue that skill cooldowns increase the level of team skill needed, since you would need to communicate and stagger your cooldowns to cover an area instead of mindlessly hitting the keys.

#93

There are some considerations I can think of for introducing longer cooldowns as compared to RO.

First, I can see the longer CDs as an anti-botting mechanism (to an extent).

Second, in terms of game-design, it’s preferable that as many of the skills chosen by a player are actually used. Half the skills in RO were useless, simply because the cooldowns and durations for the choice skills would already pass. The introduction of cooldowns is an attempt in remedying that.

There aren’t that many skills to cast initially in ToS. However, these will start to accumulate as characters approach rank 10, which we have yet to test. Classes are the main selling point behind ToS, and those classes are tied directly to those skills. When skills eventually get superseded because of better skills, it sort of makes one’s choices in the initial classes as less of an investment.

#94

Well I’ll try to forget your comment about RO.
About CD, your defending something which got no use. If it is as you say, so put CD to the powerfull skills, not the basic ones like a bolt.
All the shitty mmorpg after RO use CD, so you have to use all the shitty skills. And that is because developers are lack of ideas.

#95

Some classes work that way in ToS now, not all abilities come with cooldowns. Also it seems that auto-attacking as a wizard class actually does damage…unlike RO where you will slap em with your wand for 1 damage.

Whats wrong with my comment about RO? Keep in mind my knowledge of the game ended pre-3rd classes. If 3rd classes changed the meta then so be it.

#96

… you missed half of the fun.

1 Like
#97

Your feedback lacks body and reason. Where is the unlike button when you need it? I guess I will have to flag this.

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#98

Cooldowns help create an even playing field for all job classes regardless of build. RO’s lack of cooldowns meant that only a select few builds are worth playing, which makes having customizable builds pointless since most everyone ends up using the same cookie-cutter build for each job class. If you’re going to let players customize characters to that extent, the game should allow every kind of customization to be viable in some way. But with the way RO is set up, people are divided between mainstream builds and unique builds that can’t do much compared to mainstream builds. How is it fun to be rejected from parties and guilds because you want to play a build or job class that’s not mainstream?

In addition, without cooldowns, it’s harder on the developers and GMs to spot cheaters using third party applications like NoDelay and AutoPot.

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#99

I actually liked this idea with longer cooldowns.
Well, maybe not THAT long, but I enjoyed mobbing with sapper traps. By the time you find another group of mobs worth using strong skills, cooldowns are off.

The problem is dealing with single mob.
Thats where long cooldowns suck. I’ve many times found myself in situations when 1-2 mobs aggroed on me when skills are on cooldown, and killing them with basic attack was FFFUUU.

So how about old as the world idea:
AoE = long cooldowns, Single target = short (VERY short) cooldowns. Lesser cooldowns mean too intensive SP usage for farming with such skills, but at least you can get rid of annoying 1-2 mobs. I only afraid this will lead to sinle-target skills dominating PvP, because of higher DPS.

#100

Honestly, you ppl are losing your focus on the CD, indeed the way the game was handed on this CBT for us was bad because we barely had a set of skills to use, i mean, in my case i was concentrating on barrage and high anchoring (since both do overkill) i couldnt get to the next advancement since in the end my purpose was to test the game, i do had my amount of fun with the game, i think imc is going the right path for now, now back to the issue here, this CBT was limited, you ppl are looking only to the now and not to the tomorrow.

Wich is:
1- Right now the content is turned to the low level and we wont have much choices on builds or skill sets, we need to test those builds and skills to have a feel of what need change and what not.

2- Tomorrow (i mean the future to those who cant use their imagination), we will be able to level to the 200’s or even 300’s (this is just an exemple, dont assumpt that it will be that because im not God to read the IMC staff to know if it is or not), we will have at our arsenal lots of skill sets, we mayl have around 10 or more skills for use wich lead to the CD issue at hand that become practicaly inexistent.

So in the end, this CD is bad and what not is kind irrelevant for the current state of the game, we are on a CLOSED BETA phase, its not OPEN BETA yet, so this kind of things are being considered by the staff.

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#101

Are you a developer? If a player doesn’t like CD, why are you defending it? It is not a must-be feature. There’s another ways to balance the game.

#102

For this beta, no it is not less grindy lol. You’d get a whopping amount of exp if you can defeat a higher level mob. Here, you get nothing special, it’s better to just hunt monsters around your level. Even that takes forever, since the mob exp is so low in iCBT1. I agree with the skill CD comparison though.

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#103

You are all looking at this from the idea of a perfect hypothetical scenario where a map is empty and you can freely setup to do what you want. This 9 times out of 10 will never be the case at any point in reality.

Having played and been there as a Wizard or Cleric will you understand how much of a problem this is to work around. People will randomly come by and try to KS or disrupt your farming. Or your party just does not work with the setup of one giant pull every 30 seconds for what ever reason.

It is really depressing thing to feel if you literally can not do anything for half if not more of the time you play because of things out of your control. If you miscast a spell it is even longer too!

#104

If a player doesn’t like the Cooldowns, then the community is here to discuss feedback; we don’t even have to come to a consensus, we’re just here to make light of what we think of the game, it’s mechanics, and how they’re implemented so that we can present this information to the developers.
Numerous other players have justified the use of long cooldowns and why they are an appropriate or inappropriate design choice for this game. The more I’ve read of these discussions, the more I’ve been able to develop my stance on why long cooldowns are healthy for the game, and my understanding that developed characters will be able to mitigate them.

In other words: This isn’t a goddamn Burger King, it’s a Forum.

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#105

You adding a thing which sucks to balance the game. There are a lot of ways to balance it. They choose the lazy one. And you defend that just because.

#106

Well, SZ here can have a lot more hit blocked + can be expand in size.
Actually, another skill that will be ridiculous if there’s no CD is Wizard’s reflect.
Now your party never dies.

And after about 50 levels in and at 50 Int, I realized I can kill things efficiently enough just by using appropriate weapon (Five Hammer for blunt and any random sword that drops for Slash) + Sacrament buff (after reaching that much Int I’m starting starting to get more Str tho)
The thing with Cleric skills having high cd is that it’s to balance out its utility side as well (also, they do a lot of damage if all hits land)
If you want lower cd on attacks, try other classes where their skill is only for damage (for example, Swordsman’s Thrust have 3 charges and less than 10s cd after)

#107

I’m really curious why people can think that cycling through skills simply because of your better ones being on CD somehow makes the game more skill-based or whatever. If you’re using a different skill for that purpose then it’s just as braindead as spamming your best one, except that you have to wait and do nothing/run in circles during downtime as well making it even more boring.

#108

^THIS!!! , all the groups i played with on the beta was mindlessly killing 1 or 2 mobs with all aoe attacks they had, and we had a bunch of ppl running around waiting for CD’s because they cant use auto attack to kill those 2 mobs and when the area got respawned with most mobs they just kill one or 2 at time till the CD is done, and by that time the circle repeat itself.