I think CookyKim kind of nailed it on the dot earlier in the thread.
Cool downs are used to balance game mechanics. Also without CDs, you really don’t have much for the development of different classes and TOS has a rather large amount of classes.
For example, for dps classes, without CDs, you can’t produce short burst high dmg classes or long term consistent dps classes. This limits the number of classes and play styles drastically without CDs.
We need CDs, thats MMO 101.
Ho~ so suddently the talk is not about party role anymore but about general usage, you seriously need to stop moving goalpost. also the little differences you talk about are so little that they literally don’t matter at all.
I’m not saying that I want my builds to do the same, but I want the correct build for the correct situation, I give you an scenario (MVP party) and you twisted it and for some reason you ended talking about PVP?
Also the more you post the more I can see that you are only bored because you don’t have enough skills to use yet.
I highly suggest for you to wait and try to use a rank 4 or 5 character before doing this kind of suggestions.
The thing is that lack of CD promote spam.
If there’s no restriction, why bother using any skill except your most powerful/efficient one?
I mean, how would you balance Cleric from being indestructible by just spamming Safety Zone?
Or to use RO comparison, have you ever fought Angering? And how obnoxious it felt having to lure it out of its safety zone each time because if you don’t by the time you break it the thing will already have another one up, and whatever damage you did it’ll heal it back up.
Or in ToS, what’s to stop a team of Cataphracts from just running in and lift up all your team, then slowly slam them to death, all the while you can’t fight back?
Having CD allows skills to be powerful above normal level BECAUSE it is restricted by cooldown.
This game actually still ironically has that aspect to it. Most people didn’t get to experience it really in this beta because they spent a million years in Chapel using things like swords which aren’t effective against most the mobs in there. If they were more knowledgable then you’d be out in the fields with plants for better grinding efficiency but the problem with that was EVERYONE was there either way.
I spent most of my time leveling as Cleric to circle 3 for the sake of 2 spells being Divine Might and Safety Zone mainly. I didn’t really notice the whole attribute thing on elements until later when I pumped ton of currency into making Cure and Heal do more Holy damage in Chapel 1F where nobody liked to go. Most people I’d assume never effectively even got that far into testing these aspects because they spent time/money doing other things.
This game still has niche builds and the aspect of elemental damage being more effective. Instead of size modifiers on monsters which is still in this game you notice more on damage type slash/pierce/crush being the huge modifiers. It’s not really that much different from RO just with a new gameplay twist on things for combat gameplay and damage scaling depending on your class.
Don’t compare this to RO.
One of the few mistakes people make.
And at least we can use some skills twice before it goes into cooldown. Just try to use them at the right time. Or you could rest the few seconds of the cooldown and stand up and continue. (Unless in a boss fight xD)
Safety Zone is ALMOST the same in this game except you CAN be knocked out it fairly easily by the powerful attacks you want to try and cheese through. Only someone with Swordsman and the skill to not be knocked around will help you there which promotes them being the tanking class for that.
I agree with having some cool downs on things just not 25 to 30 seconds on basic things like Heal or Cure with the way they function in this game. There’s a serious problem there where you literally can’t do nothing because there’s no other option. If you think about it over an hour period playing you’ve spent 30 minutes doing absolutely nothing but waiting on a cool down because you can’t do anything else.
Disagree,any RPG should have cooldowns imo.
Haven’t played ToS but saw gameplays as for how long skill cooldowns are from the places I’ve seen skill descriptions some seem too long so shortening that would make it better,not removing them altogether.
Ok so let’s not mention skills having multiple charges before going on cooldown
Since you guys are comparing this game with RO, let me explain why no cooldown worked in RO and compare it to the ToS system.
RO had no cooldowns (no 3rd classes counted), but it only worked because of three things:
1 - Skills had Delay, so you can’t spam them infinitely with macros.
2 - SP potions recovered SP instantly and were spamable, provided that you wished to invest enough in recovery items, you could cast skills as much as you wanted. Some classes also had skills to increase/give SP to others.
3 - The game had a system that reduced cast time with DEX. While some classes had skills that had no cast time, most major AoE or wizard type skills had long casting times that prevented them to be spammed, you could reduce your cast time but only achieve instant cast in high-end content and using a lot of buffs and with the help of gear and other classes.
For this to work on ToS they would need to do a lot of adjustments in their gameplay. RO was a game where players were used to invest tons of money and resources to get effects (HP/SP recover and buffs consumables) and gear to increase their character’s efficiency. Players would spent fortunes of money before they went to WoE.
But ToS is different from this reality, the gameplay and character progression is smoother (or should we say “lighter”) The game is trying to avoid the “grinding” side of MMOs and instead focus on the exploration/achievement side, they don’t want you to stay hours and hours farming and preparing your wallet to get supplies to enjoy the game, they even implemented main story quests to help you progress through the game.
I agree that they could balance the game to have no cooldowns whatsoever. But they have already decided this on the early stages of the development. Changing this would require to change everything else and it would make a completely different game.
In this CBT I played (Wizard->Pyromancer->Psychokino) and although sometimes I found myself waiting for cooldowns before I killed mobs. MOST of the time I was doing anything I could to recover my SP, using pots as soon as I could and even building a campfire and sitting while my team mates killed mobs. The cooldown system helped me save some SP and it wasn’t even enough. I could solo almost any questline boss, but in the process I had to spent something from 10~15 SP pots to use enough skills to do enough damage to kill it.
But if you remember, early levels of RO was exactly the same. If you played wizard, you would always go looking around for immovable mobs, most of them were plants, and spam your most strong elemental skill on them. Whenever your SP was out there was nothing you could do but sit. In RO you would have no money if you were a starter to buy SP recovery items. At least in ToS they have features to assist you in that, potions are cheap and you have enough money to buy them. The bonfire is also an extremely helpful way the recover SP when you need to sit.
TL;DR: While ToS could remove cooldowns to make it similar to RO, they would have to change a lot of things that already exists to do it. But at the same time, ToS system is really forgiving and in my personal opinion is much better and less grindy than what RO was.
I think OP don’t love cooldowns.
Maybe it has already be said, but removing CD on every spells is stupid, because some spells would become insanely powerful, dissapear, and the variety of gameplay would suffer.
But you can still remove or reduce CD on some other, more basic spells I suppose, SP pool seems to be a quite good limit for spells spamming…
Opinion discarded.
Couldn’t agree more sir.
Cast Time >>>>>>>> Long CD.
I honestly prefer stading still for 15 seconds to cast a meteor storm and wait for the animation to be over in order to cast it again (adds more tension to the game).
Yes they are for balanced purpose but its not balanced. Classes that uses mostly skill has very long cooldowns and they are very shitty to play because your normal attack is not even good… Wizard is good example.
Cooldowns seem to be a frustrating topic to deal with, as the more I looked into them the more I found signs of them being able to be manipulated that I could not access yet. I am comfortable with Cooldowns where they are now, and feel they fit well into the game’s design, even if they do feel a little restrictive early on.
Currently, there is only one translated ability (that I know of) that reduces party cooldowns, and I believe one piece of equipment in the iCBT that reduced the wearer’s cooldown. I can only assume in the future further options will be available to reduce them, and make more manageable if you wish to do so.
I dont know if this was commented here, but i did post the same thing on other place in the forums, the game just started for us (1st CBT), so, we didnt hade chance to get to the mid/end game (in the current level cap would be something around level 100) so our skill set was kind limited, AND even so, i think by level 100, we would have enough skills to keep spamming i dont know how many times you wanted, now to what i saw in-game while playing those 7 days, ppl want to use skills to everything, even to intimidate other players by using skills at the wind (virtualy speaking), many using aoe skills to kill a single mob, i get the fact that some classes had hard on many enemies due to armor and dmg scale.
Now, while i played my Ranger, i had a set of 6 skills, each with their CD’s, my main skill was barrage, i could spam all my skills (aoe ones i think it was around 3-4 of them) and kill the 1-3 remanescent enemies (that out of a group of 6-8 enemies and when the aggro worked right), now you come here talking about removing CD because you didnt had skills to kill various mobs because you used all your AoE on that one monster that was bugging you?
Op, are you 12 or something? Edit before getting free hate: if the game developpers created cooldowns for skills, there is a reason for that. You can’t just change this because you want the game to be exactly like Ragnarok Online. Cooldowns are fine, period.
I havn’t played the beta yet… but it is true… ever since the invention of timer cooldowns in my hotkey bar… I’ve hated it with a passion. </3 cooldowns
I feel that cooldowns work well for this game. In many cases it requires you to be more considerate of when you use your skills and to consider your positioning. It also gives a lot of value to skills which affect cooldowns, such as Dievdirbys’s Laima Statue. I played Cleric during the beta and I found that spacing out my heals and tactical placement made all the difference in boss fights. (On an unrelated note, there needs to be a way to control who can step on your ability tiles; it’s really annoying to heal randoms when my party needs it)
It certainly increase the tension of using a spell, but it would be impossible to Solo bosses as Wizard type classes, unless you got Sure Spell from Circle 2 of Wizards. And let’s be honest, there are a lot of bosses in ToS. Cast times would have to be no longer than 3 seconds, and there are wizard skills that have 40 seconds cooldown. D: