Tree of Savior Forum

Matador is the worst out of the new r9 classes

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

Not only is it the worst, it’s the least innovative and boring class to play.

Zealots and Bullet Marker are very well designed, not only on class performance but offer new mechanics, new styles of play and great synergies with existing classes.
Shadowmancers are interesting in design as well, a wizard class that offers defensive and escape mechanisms. Many synergies can be found with existing classes too.

What does Matador offer?

Capote - Swash buckling with some debuffs that don’t offer much impact.
Muleta - relies on enemies to hit you first, which is not great. Probably the only new concept sklll.
Paena - stronger version of Sept Etoiles.
Ole - crit rate buff (complementary buff to Epee)
Paso Doble - AOE version of Wagon Wheel
Backslide - gimmicky but not necessary most of the time. Don’t be out of position in the first place.

As you can see, many skills are either underwhelming or just the same concept as existing skills repackaged with a little extra on top.

The only real synergy for Matador is Fencer as it is locked behind rapier use, and even then the synergy is not great. You’re forced to go Fencer 3 > Matador 1 or Fencer 2 > Matador 2

Fencer 3 > Matador 1 - you get half-baked level 5 skills.
Fencer 2 > Matador 2 - you lose out on too many signature Fencer skills that you might as well not be considered Fencer anymore. Epee, Au Fer, Balestra, Flash are all part of Fencer’s core kit.

This puts Swordsmen in a very bad position once rank 9 comes out. It limits advancement options for a lot of rank 8 classes.

They really need to redesign Matador’s skills and concepts instead of trying to add more attributes to its skills to salvage its horrible design. Some ideas might be to allow the use of 1H spears or remove penalties for wearing shields for Paena. Even though it breaks the concept for Matador, at this point I feel it might be necessary otherwise Matador is too restrictive and niche at this point and feels like a wasted class altogether.

1 Like
#2

Its been always like that since the first OBT. Swordsman had always the underrated and underwhelming class, the class that forced to solo everything but can’t solo anything. The very complementary is Clerics, the class that forced to go party, but can solo everything.

6 Likes
#3

The sad truth T-T

I hope there will be more balance changes and class redesign for Swordsman in R9 patch.

I had a problem in ToS… I love One-Handed Swords characters and my main is a Swordsman, but he use spear… I didn’t find a good way to go for One-Handed Sword character… spears are a lot superior.

For me is really sad that the best build to use One-Handed Swords is not a SWORDSman, but a Archer (Hackapell)…

I would like to see Matador skills working with One-Handed Swords and Highlander Cross Guard working with One-Handed Swords + Dagger.

#4

Glad it sucks tbh :tired:

#5

The biggest issue for me about Matador (beside the concept that is awful in itself IMHO) it’s that we have another class soft locked behind a particular weapon usage… the main reason why some Archer and Swordman builds are not very popular and/or optimal for the past/current content is mostly that: Archers/Swordmen quickly reach their evolution cap and they are forced to backtrack to lower and lower ranks because they have no other choice unless they want to craft 2-3 weapons of different type together and mix up their build… and this whitout even considering the burden for mounted classes, whhich have even lesser options available. :frowning:
That’s mainly the reason why on iTOS Cannoners and Musketeers aren’t very popular, even tho they can pull their weight in their respective fields once geared enough (and this coming from a guy who doesn’t like Cannoners/Musketeers concept AT ALL).

What happened to Archers at Rank7/8 is now happening to Swordies too… they gave Fencers a possible choice for R9 and they also gave the illusion that it will be good for Corsairs to go Matador c1+c2 too… too bad right now no Corsair runs around with a Rapier, since the meta and non meta builds for them are built around one-handed swords and spears… so even with a rank reset event, if we quickly rush to craft another weapon to test things out, how are we supposed to do so with sub optimal weapons. :frowning:
The investment required is too much in such instances, thus people refrain from testing more and more, and prefer to backtrack to safer but weaker low rank choices… and that’s really something the DEVs should look into, but well, we know how this works already. :confused:

5 Likes
#6

Matador is fine, just kill shinobi clones. Balance is pointless unless we rework the shinobi shitstorm first.

Just imagine the game without lmao bushin 300000% combos and Fencer3Matador 1 will feel amazing

Edit: I agree that matador 2 is really bad at the moment but maybe they are saving something for c3.

#7

“Saving” something for c3 is no excuse. Every circle of every class should have its strenghts.

6 Likes
#8

Matador backdash
:wheelchair::dash:

4 Likes
#9

I think the main reason why Matador is bad are the following 2:

  1. Fencer, the only Rapier-based Swordsman Class, is a Rank 6 Class, so you’re limited to either Fencer2>Matador2 or Fencer3>Matador1;
    The main problem here is that both Matador1 and Fencer2 are underwhelming because their best skills come at the next Circle.

  2. IMC made a mistake in making several Rank 6/Rank 7 Classes too weak/unstable,
    which in turn creates a huge problem in the game. Kabbalist and Oracle e.g. use up most of your higher Ranks, but they pay off rather little for their dedication, given the sudden steep rise in EXP to reach max Class level with such obviously ill-designed and unbalanced Classes;

Also, let’s not forget that some Classes are really bad at first Circle and only get decent gradually (e.g. Sadhu,Cannoneer,Musketeer,Falconer,Hunter,etc.), which makes them bad as non-focus Classes (e.g. balance options or simply filler Classes) and worse as choices to end your build with (noone right in his mind would build an Archer that ends with C1 Cannoneer at Rank 9, as Cannoneer C1 is just weak garbage).
Matador is one of them and given the steep EXP curve, it seems pointless to choose only C1 as it will become a hard carry for your build…

All in all, Matador isn’t really bad but its design is bad, the better skills come with C2 and given that C3 will most likely only feature a single skill, it’s pretty obvious that C2 is the deciding Circle.
This locks out pretty much every Rank 6+ Class from efficiently using this Class,
unless you’re willing to step back from your weapon/skills/power in trade of some more “unique” gameplay.

Might become better in 2 events:

  • sped up release of Rank 10

  • reduced amount of Class experience so you can roll back to Matador later without much loss

but I guess Rank 10/11 are the points which will decide the true usefulness/worth of a Rank 8 Class.

#10

Correction: falconer c1 is better than c2.
i only interested in capote, so matadorc1 is enough (if and only if it is on par with swash)

#12

Swordsman tree is rigid because of the lack of autoswap despite having weapon restrictions like archer tree. To add salt to the injury, swordsman felt the CC nerf the most because it’s mini CCs (restrain and knockdowns) was nerfed close to nothingness, while cryos and kinos still do just fine, as we notice most swordsman builds rely on corsair class for a reliable CC.

Some possible fixes:

  • autoswap and tweak skill weapon compatability e.g 2H and shield skills in general

  • rework aoe attack ratio (another feature which swordsman mostly suffer)

  • change nature of buff; buff doesn’t disappear when weapon switching but wont work if not in required weapon, will only work again if switched back to right weapon e.g swash, finestra

  • reduce cast and delay time and expand hitboxes further.

1 Like
Dragoon 3/Lancer 2 rank 9 theorycrafting
#13

I feel like they could do to lower the cooldown for Capote and Ole atleast. The 30s / 50s length of them is kinda bad…

Because Pelt’s taunt has a lower cooldown, you wouldn’t pick Matador over Pelt for the taunt alone… because Pelt is much more accessible at a lower rank for pve stuff, and you’d be looking for strong attacks later.
The crit rate on Ole is pretty nice atleast, but I don’t think it has that much reliability…

But then the crit taunt is mostly the entire reason to pick the class over some other dps, because Paena is an ok rng attack and Paso Doble is just a stronger, swirly Bash.
I don’t pvp, but Muleta and Butt Dodge don’t really seem like they’d be effective for that either…

I mean if it was a blue class I’d understand the choices abit more, because that’s basically what it’s leaning toward (despite having yet another shield restriction…).

1 Like
#14

Kino may even have Control but Cryomancer completely loses its effectiveness if you have one Plague Doctor on the other team. The Cryo control does not get weak, it does not exist against a PD.

#15

that’s because swords suck as weapon in this game =, and with hackapel introduction they made it pretty clear they intend to balance swords as a sub weapon, not a main one.

#16

I can say Pied Piper is the worst out of the new R9 classes without testing it :crazy_face:.

You guys…

Just some thoughts about updates
#17

Implying matador wasn’t thoroughly tested by quite a few people within the community?

Aite BET

#18

If you have understood my statement, I was correlating the nerf in CC to all general CC, which affects swordsman mostly than other classes, outside factors like PD or even oracle prophecy isn’t to be considered.

#19

Implying we don’t even have it on IToS, we don’t know everything about it because it’s too much recent. Zealot is obviously strong because there is nothing to discuss about it, while Matador is a trick based class. Cannot be worst than old Sadhu (please don’t remember my words if I was wrong :tired:).

Just to say we discovered some tricks by combining some skills just by exploring the game, hype just killed this class.

#20

you…you know a lot of people on here have access to ktest/ktos accounts right?

#21

Ofc, how could it invalidate what I am saying ?