Tree of Savior Forum

Matador is the worst out of the new r9 classes

You must practice a lot to use this skill. The counter timer is very short.

If you need ktos user feedback:
Buff time on Ole too short.
Capote nerfed too much (10 targets --> 5 targets, 50% crit debuff --> 50 debuff). CD worse than swashbuckle.
Paso doble knocks mobs around, bad for grouping.
Paena cd too high, only decent damage skill.
Swordie dash outperforms backslide.
Muleta unusable.
Matador2 = low utility & 1 usable damage skill.


Muleta cannot proc if you block or dodge the hit. You must take damage

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Because players with access to kTest and kTos have been testing it for weeks… that’s why it invalidates your point.

Indeed it invalidates my point if you’re not even reading what I said. Or if you don’t know stories of some ToS classes.

Someone tell you you can’t know if something is good or not because you don’t know if you explored everything about it, you still think you know everything ? Damn.

And “weeks” please, weeks ?

@greyhiem Anything about PvP ?

Well yeah, weeks, R9 patch hit kTEST on 19th October if I remember correctly, and kTOS on 2nd November, so it’s atleast 3 weeks in my book… most of the replies I’ve seen here are from players who did test things out, so these are not baseless complains in my opinion, but they’re making some valid points.
I agree you need more time to understand how a character fully works, but surely you can get a pretty damn good idea after 3 weeks of testing, don’t you think…?

I have nothing about complains nor I said it was baseless informations, what greyhiem stated above is mostly true. Even worse it seems Muleta is totally bugged.

3 weeks is not enough for me, even on live servers. And here, people in KTest had a lot of problems, plus they don’t have the time to test everything. There’s not only Matador to test and they need to test it with all sort of builds. Most people test it like they had only Matador, truth is, now in ToS sinergy is an important aspect of the game. While this class seems to be PvE oriented, I feel like it is more a PvP class with some PvE skills.

Anyway, some builds have been discovered really late, and some of them are so unpopular people think they are bad or impossible to play. We’re not going to know what Matador is capable of with feedbacks and short videos, not like Zealot which is almost a standalone class (Cleric tree :wink:). And I’m sure we are even going to discover new things about Zealot later, and Shadowmancer, and Bullet Marker.

There is a fencer3 but no matador

Muleta would be nice to counter melee at pvp, however it does not negate the damage of the hit you receive. If you die after taking a hit, you won’t be able to deliver a counterattack. And if you block or dodge the hit, you won’t counterattack. Once you succeed, your counterattack can still be blocked and dodged. Using muleta will make you immobile (animation time).

You can watch a match with the fencer3 in enemy team (video time around 36:30):
Around video 46:30, fencer is on allied team.

@Proxied 's beloved fencer shinobi.


Before, Stabber (the fencer-shinobi) was a matador. Has resetted since. Match with him on allied team.

Oh yeah I’ve seen him in the tbl videos but I need to see the young pve. I wonder how he will do later in the week when the rankings have more time to accumulate, because even for stabber, whos consistently been high ranked in KR, it will probably be even more difficult to get anything accomplished in tbl regardless of having shinobi as a fencer.

When everyone gets a more aoe friendly and farther range balestra, it makes it even more difficult for the class to get anything accomplished.

buuut he isn’t a pve build so I don’t expect to see any pve from him.

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I’m really giving up on ToS this time. They can’t for the love of god get the only class I play correct. There’s no diversity in the builds as there has too many restrictions. The devs has been far too lazy on the Swordsman tree.

With ping like ours (most of the players I mean), nobody will use that Muleta. They delay will frustrate a lot of players. lol

EDIT: Flagged for stating my opinion. 'kaaaaay

TBH, I didn’t even like them changing the class system, or maybe they should have chosen to start the horizontal expansion with rank 8 instead. They fooooooked up Fencer-Matador with that one. Either you have a meh Fencer2, or Matador2. I’m starting to think that the class system is really messed up at this point.

First I would like to say that of all arguments here, the only one that is sh1t is about the nature of the Matador. Plz dont be a fagget.

With that aside, Matador is a class that has a good design, but for some reason the developers did not want to make the skills what they should be.

Muleta is a damn counter attack, so it should at least reduce/negate the damage, the most obvious would be a 100% dodge effect and then the counter.

Critical chance from Olé should be more significant, maybe creating a stacking mechanic with how much you dodge, I don’t know.

I don’t think Capote needs to taunt more targets or have better CD, it just needs to be authentic. A weaker version of something that already exists is the worst game design possible.

Backslide should have at least guaranteed dodge and not 50% (which was not even something that was there). The ideal was to have a damn invincibility during the animation. C’mon, it is rank 9, we are gods already.

Paena being a RNG is something that I don’t understand very well. I think it could increase the chance with critical rate, dunno… Nah, hit variation is the dumbest idea I have seen.

And there is something that is lacking SINCE the Fencer1 circles: a damn vital point/weak point exposer. Don’t know what that could be made of, but Fencing is about hitting a point that makes you win. Matador could do that with Capote or Ole, maybe a Pierce vulnerability would suffice.

It is like the developers think Rapier classes will be too broken, so they prefer the weaker end. I think there are better ways of balancing a high damage class than making a useless version of it.

Anyway, I will do Matador1 and 2 with my Fencers because I am a rapier player masochist. But my guides will surely recommend using Shinobi as rank9 for new players.

I

3 Likes

It already reduce damages, no ?

Edit :

Nope, you take full damage. It also doesn’t work upon dodging or blocking.

And I would love having Fiora’s Riposte instead of Muleta.

I’ve been thinking a lot of which of the many warriors I want to make will be next but every warrior build all comes down to Either Spears or Rapiers, and of course Shields are an option for either with good choices. (Also I guess twohand swords via Highlander and Doppelsoeldner)

As far as swords are concerned, there are no SWORD classes, if a class can do it with a sword they can use a spear instead.

When you get to Rank 6 every option from here on out except Shinobi decides a weapon you will be forced to use, that said there is only 4 options so you have some weapons like twohand swords which have to take Barbarian or Corsair since they work with everything, meanwhile Rapier users have 3 different classes and all of which are obtained later, not to mention Shinobi would be of pretty great benefit to both Corsair and Fencer in PvE.

With all of what Rapier users have going for them and the struggles of other weapons, Matador was probably the worst thing it could be, if I had a Fencer I wouldn’t even go Matador. In fact depending on my sub weapon I might not even go Matador in rank 10. Like sure if you use a shield you go Swordsman - Peltasta - Barbarian - (Double up one one of those 3 or go Rodelero) but then Rank 5 Corsair - Fencer 3 - Shinobi. If you’re not using a shield, you go Corsair 2, Swordsman 2, Barbarian 2, and then potential Corsair 3 into Fencer 3, then someday when Rank 10 comes out if they haven’t added a new compatable class you go Shinobi.

I would have liked to see either a sword class or a class that works will all weapons. A class that could use either type of sword would be especially good since Doppelsoeldner has no real progression options for rank 9 and like I said we lack one hand sword classes.

Are you sure ? greyhiem video shows it reduce damages (but it’s a lil bit bugged). It is how I understand the skill so far.

The problem of Muleta in a game like ToS is most of the time you don’t really know what your opponent is going to use because all animations tend to be almost the same. It is too random. And it’s not usable because of lags, sadly.

Total random build : https://tos-kr.neet.tv/skill-planner#11222888jj

Just to say Corsair > Matador is maybe much better to go with for people who wanted to use rapier but couldn’t take both Corsair3 and Fencer. I think people go the wrong way by doing Fencer > Matador even if it seems to be an obvious choice.

There are actually two, Squire and Templar.
Squires Deadly combo can only be used with one-handed swords, neither with spears nor with rapiers.
Templars Mortal Slash also just works with swords (he can use twohanded swords for it,too,though).

The problem is that those two Classes are mainly utility Classes and not useful in actual combat.
If there was a Class that’s based on them similarly to Murmillios base on Hoplite/Peltatsta/Rodelero, they could become good in the future, and it would be a true swordclass.

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I wonder how many fencers are going to take murmillo.

If they are smart they will not pick Murmillo, because it gives nothing to a Fencer, Shinobi is a better option, Kunai is pierce giving synergy with Epee Garde and Attaque Coquile, and the clones help dias damage in the common Sword 3 - Highlander 2 - Fencer 3 build.

Even Matador 1 would be better pick for Fencer 3 than Murmillo to be honest.

is it really worse than dragoon 3? Oh right, of the “NEW” r9 classes. I guess dragoon c3 will remain a meme lol.

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Let just say its not made to do dps instead its made for buffing its previous class by increasing crit chances, mobbing and evading. its not really a good class compare to all rank8 classes tbh but its not really bad.

Matador imo is more on utility but the issue is that because it’s on rank 8, you need to have a functional dps build using only 7 ranks. Which, most of the endgame dps classes atm are rank 6 and above. The only class that can fit into 7 ranks at the moment without any specific weapon stance is just Corsair.

This is also because Rank 8 is considered “High Rank” by IMC so Rank 8 has higher skill factors, which doesn’t help Matador.

I feel like most of the class choices are kinda ■■■■■■. They should probably rework ranks into Low, Mid and High and open up more than just 2 choices per rank. Like, low would include rank 1 to 4, mid would be rank 5 to 7, high would be as it is now.