Sry, miss-spelled D:
No, still not enough to burst down a full CON Cleric with full trans-ed Solmemeki.
im guessing that the debuff skill by matador is where it raise aoe def ratio on self n reduce dmg on opponent,while making sure that when opponent attack,only the matador will receive the reduced dmg n the other party member wont. Just a guess tho.
Well, full trans fencer won’t die either, while bursting squishies
And, btw, it’s a 3vs3 arena D:
I don’t know where the claim that Fencers are strong in PVP comes from.
I’ve played Fencers extensively in TBL and I can tell you that Fencers are not good in TBL right now.
Reasons:
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Wearing dagger in offhand instead of shield and leather instead of plate - Due to the Epee buff negating shield defense and the Rapier Mastery - aggression attribute, the majority of Fencers don’t use shield in their offhand and put crit gems in both their main and offhand weapons in order to crit and do decent damage. This decreases their block a lot compared to classes that can wear shield. Leather armor is also needed to boost crit rate but leather has crap physical ad magical defense, even when upgraded. Plus it’s usually plate armor that gives CON stat, not leather. You can block with Preparation and Flanconnade but this roots the Fencer in place if you use it, making you vulnerable to other cc in TBL.
-
Lack of block pen - even with high crit, against geared Murmillos/clerics/geared shield users, I get blocked half the time. This is even after putting decent amounts of points into DEX, gemming Solmiki gloves with yellow and using 3X Ellaganos cards. Because of point 1 making you squishy, you can’t go full DEX, you need decent amount of CON to survive in TBL.
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The need for melee range - Fencer’s hitbox is small and the range is horrible. You literally need to be in melee range for the majority of skills to hit. Getting into melee range is the tough part in TBL with things like raise, MF, ice wall, frost pillar etc. Even if you have iron hook, many geared cannoners with scout 1 can literally 1-shot you from stealth before you can hook them (due to point 1 above). With necros/sorcerers that are surrounded by skeletons and bats, it’s literally impossible to hook the player from range too (hook affects 3 targets max) and Fencers don’t have enough AOE to burst down the surrounding skeletons.
Point 1 is the biggest reason. The majority of the current meta in TBL is high CON/block/defense, other well-performing classes are archer classes such as SR/cannon with trans 10 weapons that can shoot from range. Both are super hard to deal with for Fencers.
^
This guy knows what’s up
Fencers are pretty much forced to wear leather, thanks to the new critical rate formula.
In case you don’t know, Fencers rely on critical attack so much that’s why they need to stack critical rate as much as possible.
And high CON isn’t an option just like the guy above said. Without block pen all the damage in the world won’t do ■■■■.
Try to wear 4+3 solm set, not the leather one. And shield for stats, not for def. Just try.
Then you will hit like a feather due to lack of crit. Crit is what makes Fencer strong due to Epee buff. If you don’t crit, don’t bother playing Fencer because the skill damage alone is crap.
Wearing shield will give -15% pierce damage from lack of rapier aggression attribute. Let’s say you Wear the best shield for stats ie. Emengard, you’re left with 1 slot compared to a 2-slot dagger. That’s at least -50+ crit. Combined with full plate gear, you’re looking at around 400 crit rate instead of 650+ crit using your setup. Remember, non-crit Fencer’s damage is crap. Try it for yourself and see.
And blablabla… It is better to not discuss about what class is good in PvP or not on ToS forum because it depends on a lot of things like :
- If the TBL is full of bugs
- The server you’re talking about
- The build might be different
- Do theory reflect reality ? This forum showed it’s almost never the case
- Did you put goon in your build ?
Why do you bother posting when you bring nothing to the conversation at hand?
Well I don’t disagree that Fencer sucks on TBL for a series of reasons, but let me address some of them.
Who on their ■■■■■■ mind would use a PVE Fencer for PVP? The only benefits of using a dagger with Fencer is to have more critical rate and to activate Aggression.
It is almost impossible to crit at a player target and even if you could crit, you would lose more than gain by doing that.
Aggression is a 15% increase in skill damage by using a Rapier. This might be attractive, but someone with common sense would know that it is too low of an increase compared to the block and other defenses a shield gives.
If Flanconnade was still 0CD we could say that it was possible to not use a shield. But it is not anymore, so Fencer PVP have to use a shield.
Aside from mounted classes, pretty much all swordsman classes, Murmillo counted, has 0 means of block penetration. So you would need block penetration from gear and I think the block penetration from Elga Rapier gives pretty much the same block pen as Catacombs Blade. 198 block penetration plus any other viable source is not victory guaranteed, but who said penetrating block was easy. At least for a Murmillo it is not easy as well.
Now THAT is a good point. The only thing I really struggle when a play as a Fencer on TBL is the kiting. Swordsman has pretty much 0 gap closers and hook is not a perfect solution. However that also applies to Murmillo and Mounted classes. Of course, they have their gap closers, but they are not that perfect either.
The hitbox issue is something that I will have to agree with you. No objections there.
I believe Matador could help in some of this problems depending on how that Counter skill actually work. But I would not expect too much of it.
At the moment, I’m in the making of some Fencer PVP builds. The variations are pretty much Sword2~3 with Rodelero1~2/Corsair and Fencer3/Fencer2Murmillo. I don’t know which combination will actually be better, my expectations of them working are pretty low. But I will try to experiment every combination as I find that to be fun.
And overall, I don’t recommend Fencer for PVP. If even Murmillos and Lancers struggles to get the top 10 ranks, imagine a Fencer.
I crit on players numerous times. My prepped Au Fer has one-shotted less geared enemies multiple times.
Not critting gives the enemy opportunity to run away and heal up or cc you. Have you ever played Fencer seriously in TBL before? Even if you were tankier by sacrificing crit rate, if you aren’t capable of critting at all then you have pretty much no hope of killing anyone that’s slightly geared and you’re just delaying your own death. As I said above, non-crit Fencers damage is worthless. Without crit Fencers are worse than Dragoons in TBL, at least Dragoons have more range on their skills and Dethrone.
Also, who said 2-slot daggers = PVE Fencer?
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Well, although I agree that without the crit Fencer is even worse, it’s not like you’re succesful with it, after all your thesis is that Fencer suck in TBL.
I believe that a tankier Fencer might have more chances than one who uses dagger with crit. I might be hell wrong, but at least I admit it.
And any DPS Fencer on PVE will try to focus on using a dagger, if posssible, so yeah, PVE Fencer to me is a dagger user.
It’s not a thesis. I’ve actually tried Fencer extensively in TBL. Overall their performance sucks.
However, their damage can be quite decent. Prepped au fer with crit can almost 1-shot anything that doesn’t wear a shield, provided it doesn’t get blocked. With no crit however, I hit like a wet noodle. We’re talking Flash that don’t even hit 10k total with 3 hits, that kind of weak.
Au fer is your best shot at killing in TBL. Majority of my kills come from Au fer, crit or not. The best way to land au fer is to have someone in your team that can cc, like cryos, kinos, hook etc. If they can hold the enemy in place for you, you can burst them down in a short period of time.
a Fencer that tanky but can’t kill is but a deadweight. running around poking enemies here and there won’t help you win the match.
you’ll just die last, because you’re tanky but not a threat to them at all.
I dunno bout you guys but I can 1-shot a full, con full solmiki plate w/ emengard shield player with Au Fer(if it crits)
really? Can you show us your TBL video?
a class based on Real torturers of defenseless animals. well done.
I thought Inquisitor background was scary, but matador really owns it.
I’m really released from ToS. thank you.
Say that to all the popolions you killed when you started the game.
I am also against animal abuse but it doesn’t mean that just because the class is thematically similar to the real life practitioner it will induce others to enjoy or to practice the action. We are all grown-ups.
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Serious?
Corsair: Looters, murderers. OK
Lancers: Duel to the death. OK
Wugushis: Killl people and animal with poison. OK
Rogue: Silent assassins, ambushers. OK.
Barbarian: Looters and murderers. OK
Inquisitor: Torturers and murderers. OK
Bokor: Cannibalistic zombie manipulators. OK
Murmillos: theater of carnage to the delight of the spectators. OK
Matador: Assassination of animals to the delight of the spectators. Triggered
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