[MAJOR COMPLAINT] Market now requires cash to use + trading removed

[Raven]

With the way the token system is set up and the limitation on the market, it sounds like the only thing that’s going to be on the market is stuff you can buy with TP or rare items.

I really would rather the game change models instead of trying to make money this way. I’ve played games with similar token systems and they’re not games I’ve enjoyed and stuck around with for very long. If we have to pay a monthly fee for tokens to play the game in a decent manner anyways just change the game’s model to p2p and remove this bs system.

There’s been players suggesting p2p and b2p several times. Maybe this would be the better model for the international release. Would you guys rather play this game with a different model that has a different trading system?

Because for me personally right now this isn’t working and I’m majorly disappointed.

[Lenny]

PoE isnt pay to win either, u can only buy stuff for yourself (u cant trade costumes and stuff)

[nizidr]

I really would rather the game change models instead of trying to make money this way. I’ve played games with similar token systems and they’re not games I’ve enjoyed and stuck around with for very long. If we have to pay a monthly fee for tokens to play the game in a decent manner anyways just change the game’s model to p2p and remove this bs system.

There’s been players suggesting p2p and b2p several times. Maybe this would be the better model for the international release. Would you guys rather play this game with a different model that has a different trading system?

Because for me personally right now this isn’t working and I’m majorly disappointed.

Nizidr used Perspective Distortion!..

If i rephrase token system description like: “ToS is P2P game with free trial. Trial accounts have several limitations: no direct trade, limited market slots and higher tax, no buy-in shops etc.”

Your wish is granted but nothing has changed.

…It is super effective! …

[Brobbulus]

Well, it depends on the price of those tokens. And thank you for using Perspective Distortion Somehow after thinking about it for a while it’s not too bad… if they manage to keep away bots and real money trading.

[Raven]

No it puts everyone on equal ground and forces there to be less bots in the game due to a pay wall. Never said anything about having “free trial” accounts. Also good luck keeping the bot population down in a f2p game. If you’re having to pay to play the game decently anyways just switch it to p2p so we can have the other benefits of a p2p game.

Anyways don’t want to derail the topic too much but mostly we need to figure out what’s IMC’s goal here with the trade system being as it is. If it’s for money there’s a lot of other options they could take with the international version, p2p being one of them. If it’s due to them failing to be able to create a market that doesn’t crash if they have x amount of items, maybe it would help to switch to p2p or b2p to help them buy better servers or equipment that can fix that problem or whatever else because it would add in a lot of money for them up front right away.

[Asgard]

LEAGUE OF LEGEND is the most f2p game even created.

Wrong, League is P2W too.

A paying user in League can buy all the content with RP, and he can invest his IP with runes instead.

Why League of Legends is Pay to Win.

Here’s a close up on the amount of time required to unlock everything, 7 years. Reminder that a paying user can have it just by buying it with cash points.

Average time required to buy everything in League explained.

They are clearly using a “Pay not to Play” model. It is P2W, yes, but it’s not as bad (from my point of view) as hiding content or features behind a paywall.

A player, i dont know his name, asked which game is not p2w?

The answer to that question is Dota 2 or Path of Exile.

Now, coming back to our topic at hand.

A f2p game will always have a way to be p2w. Becoz developper or publisher need money.

I’ve already made a comment on what I think would be best for the cash shop answering in this topic.

Everyone has their own point of view on what is good or bad so I wont go into that. The latest change of at least allowing everyone to trade is good, even if only within the market house, it is way better than what was before. Too bad trading has ben removed between free users, it could be better than this.

Removing user trading is bad, I don’t know why is this being done so often lately in mmos, but it’s something a free user can live with if he can still use the market house. The token system seems to be like PSO2’s VIP system where you can only sell and trade to other players after purchasing it, but you can still buy items from everyone. This is not too bad to be honest, might even be better than EXP or DROP boosters.

With the way the token system is set up and the limitation on the market, it sounds like the only thing that’s going to be on the market is stuff you can buy with TP or rare items.

Here’s a good post about current paid features in TOS.

If it’s like it was explained in this post, the market will be filled with everything, so it wont be a problem.

I don’t mind paying for a good game when I can do so, but I would prefer if it was only skins or “Pay not to Play” features instead of restrictions, too bad they decided on this approach. I’ve invested some money in Dota 2’s skins, or Warframe’s shop, but I’ve never paid in PSO2 for example.

Since free users can get everything within the game just by playing, if you are not willing to pay, or you can’t pay because reasons, after a while of storing silver and loot you can always purchase the token from another player and balance out.

We still can not be sure they will follow these measures in the international release either, there’s still a chance to have it adapted for us since we don’t even have a date for the open beta yet, but at least the cash shop is shaping way better than before.

[thebloodyaugust]

It is a self-balancing system: if token is too cheap then demand will be higher than offer and prices would rise, the opposite is also true. Whining about possible price would achieve nothing - it will cost exactly the amount average players will be able/willing to pay for them.

Also this system is better for economy compared to direct currency purchase for cash because this silver doesnt appear from nowhere - someone has to farm it, then market fees apply etc. keeping inflation in check.

Like the only game this has worked in is the “PLEX” system in EVE but most of the people that buy that with in game currency are players that play the market to make money. In this game you can’t do that with how items lock after one trade and the potential system limits that play on other items because each time it trades hands it loses value.

[nizidr]

but most of the people that buy that with in game currency are players that play the market to make money.

that is false. I was running missions/incursions and had plenty of assets to buy them for myself. Friend of mine did exploration and had enough to support his account. Yes it is time inefficient (you are better to spend a work-hour to pay for a month than grind for many hours just to buy PLEX) but it is still possible.

Also iirc NA Tera had same policy for their cash shop and it was quite successful too.

[thebloodyaugust]

that is false. I was running missions/incursions and had plenty of assets to buy them for myself.

I said most not all and YES that is how MOST do it.

[ramon_dias]

to me looks like the greatest problem in all this mess is the lack of communication from the dev/plublishers to the players. All sort of doubs left unwanserd led people to make wrong conclusions and be seriously desappointed. cmon, is that hard and would be that much damaging to the game if we know what is being done? what is temporary and what is not? what they intend to test limiting the trade system? cmon dudes, just a few notes would do the trick.

[elysium]

They are probably anxiously discussing it before giving us any firm answer. Since if they go back on their promise it will be very bad PR. Still should at least give an acknowledgement though.

[thebloodyaugust]

Since if they go back on their promise

Which promise?

20 Characters

[nightrain_scy]

As I see, if IMC intention is to prevent Market flipper and silver seller.

Then, i can say it still a fail.

They only made this function exclusive for players who buy the token. A RMT or silver seller will still earn more than he pay for it.

It is still P2W

[thebloodyaugust]

It is still P2W

While i agree this is un acceptable this doesn’t fall under pay to win in the slightest. This is closer to pay gating.

[hemoleech]

Since seeing the tokens, my opinion of the lack of trading has changed.

I have bought WoW tokens which lets you subscribe for free as long as you can afford it with gold, and I was able to extend a 2 month bought sub to an additional 4 free months. The price fluctuations according to supply and demand. These tokens are GREAT, they should have added these to WoW ages ago because they are all around win-win because it curbs gold farmers, funds the game developer, circulates current gold on the market, and lets people who can no longer afford to sub to keep playing.

The discussion of tokens being P2W has been long established and the consensus is that they are NOT pay to win, since they can be bought by anyone with in-game currency.

[thebloodyaugust]

my opinion of the lack of trading has changed.

I have no problem with the tokens being a premium thing i just think things like trading and market shouldn’t be hidden behind them when they are features important to everyone.

[hemoleech]

I suspect they did it to make it extremely difficult for gold sellers, although with tokens, they can easily get around this.

[thebloodyaugust]

I suspect they did it to make it extremely difficult for gold sellers

There are better ways to deal with gold sellers then making things difficult for your following that you expect to fund you. Us their audience who will pay them should not be caught in the cross fire.

[atari]

I’m also curious about this promise. Does it have something to do with not letting TOS to become p2w? Could you provide more details about it?

Was monetization policy the reason behind that conflict between Kim Hakkyu and Jung Ryool Kim about “certain old game” developed by GRAVITY Co. back then?

[guillermofabriziofe1]

please not implement that changes in international, the trade is a big esence of ragnarok :'c the problem of all mmorpg are that they are all p2w please not in tree of saviooor TT___TT