Tree of Savior Forum

Lvl170 - 2H vs. Xbow + Mana-mana - Current BIS

Class and Rank Archer
#122

It being a budget weapon actually tips the choice in its favour as well since you can pick up multiple copies to briquette for +10% attack damage. For the price of 1 Karacha on Telsiai, you could Briquette and +10 a Superior Kracked Shooter come to think of it.

Karacha is also worse for Split Arrow because the bounce modifier is t0.

It is actually all things considered, pretty lackluster for your build, especially as refine rate goes up because the base damage increase is going to matter for the Split Arrow setup youā€™re going to do.

#123

I totally forgot about this, I guess too much factors spinning in my head can be bad at times.

I even considered focusing on just 2H-Bow before because of itā€™s very high base which is favored by Split Arrow.

But I also cannot disregard the damage output coming from Double Flare which does tons of ticks favoring one-hand + off-hand setups.

P.S. My Karacha was already there even before I planned my Scout C3. My +5 Karacha is a weapon by my Rogue C3, I just passed it via team storage.

#124

Btw, I saw +7/8?GC 2/9 potential that was sold at 5M yesterday with Running Shot Gem [TELS]

At first the seller asked me for 3M, but I didnā€™t take it (since I want it in Gloves :wink: ) and after a while someone offers a Petamion so he immediately trade it.

I wish I took it but I forgot how hard it is to hunt one, and considering Diddel is RNG based also.

Do you think its worth it? hahaha lol

#125

@Dream I have updated the data to include damage gain for Split Arrow for your perusal. They are single bounce instances. I am confident you will be able to use this to get the values you need for other scenarios (Double Fireball Linked, etc).

1 Like
#126

Thanks for this!

Just judging from the raw damage advantage, the winner is already obvious and this chart further proved it.

I was wondering if you can add one more comparison? Lolopanther Bow versus Lolopanther Crossbow. I just want to see the damage difference to see if Lolopanther Xbow + Mana-mana is worth it. The stats of Lolopanther Crossbow is really bad so it seems Lolopanther is the better choice overall.

#127

Negative values favour the crossbow. (Damage difference is Bow - Crossbow+Pistol). Values highlighted in red indicate that the Bow is superior at that critical chance under said circumstances.

If anyone has further enquiries, you can reach me ingame @ Lyralei.

#128

This is considering that all the comparison happened in a single hit with 100% modifier right? It also does not consider the crit rate added by Lolopanther Bow.

Itā€™s hard to judge if itā€™s just 1 hit with 100% modifier.

#129

Critical Rate is a non-factor because Manamana has 64 Critical Rate (Level 5 Gem in Sub-weapon, more if you sacrifice 1 Critical Attack for level 6).

Lolopanther Bow only has 2 sockets, same as the Crossbow.

If you would like to get the t0 modifier calculations for split arrow, use Damage Average and calculate from there. The Bowā€™s non-criticals will do 202 more damage than the Crossbow alone. Its Criticals will do 303 damage on Split Arrow bounces.

Easy to see that unless you have quite a high Critical Chance value, the bow will not outperform the +278 damage from Manamana (248 if you consider the Earth Damage disparity) unless of course, you are fighting Earth targets.

1 Like
#130

Wait what?! IMC being IMC.

Okay, thanks for all the info.

#131

Yeah, I also noticed that Lolopanther bow lacking of 1 slot, dunno if they will change it or what. Crossbow also sucks because of its attribute, well damage wise its stronger.

But I am totally losing hope for that lolopanther stuffs weapon since I learned that the item that drops it will be after 20F, and kTOS players were stucked at 13F.

So, I am forgetting about it for now. hahaha

#132

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Some weapons like Maledoom have 2 sockets as well even though other staves within its tier have 3.

I may add bows to the spreadsheet tomorrow.

@Dream Do you have a compiled list of relevant Archer abilities and their damage modifiers per instance or were they via your own tests? I am more than happy to give you non-100% single hit modifiers.

#133

Me and EternalDream made our own list before but it actually ended up just quite the same. The game should have the title ā€œLinearity, the gameā€ because almost every skill has 100% modifier per hit/tick that I only had to memorize skills like Flare Shot for not having 100% modifier instead just 90%.

I havenā€™t done re-tests yet here on OBT though. Iā€™m also curious on your non-100% modifier list.

#134

Bleh, I mistyped that. Apologies as its pretty late.

I meant to say Iā€™m happy to give you tables for your non-100% modifier skills if you can give me a list of archer skills you want a comparison of.

Also I have finished adding relevant end game bows and added a section for crossbows + manamana with 100% single hit instances. I will post it tomorrow after I go through it for errors.

#135

Oh, thanks but I donā€™t think I would need them anymore. Also, when I tested all archer skills, itā€™s really just Flare which has an uncommon modifier of 90% which even EternalDream confirmed as he got the same result. Probably IMCā€™s way of saying ā€œHA! who says everything is linear?ā€.

I think its much better for you to create a seperate thread about the weapon comparisons and also explain that the comparisons are done with just 100% modifier and on a single hit. So people take it with a pinch of salt. Oh and a TLDR.

#136

Gotcha.

Probably not. People are quite quick to taking things they see at face value and Iā€™d rather not be that guy that everyone refers to for whatever reason.

Those who want the information enough will probably make the effort to peruse this thread and have enough common sense to use whatever values I provide to come to their own conclusions.

Thank you. Iā€™m off to bed.

1 Like
#137

As promised, enclosed is the table including bows and one with crossbow + manamana. As per usual, all values are 100% un-modified single hit instances (no t0 modifiers) against targets with no race, size or armor type unless otherwise stated.

Some interesting takeaways from this is that Khasti Bow is a very good economical choice for general farming given that your critical chance is 70% or higher while a Superior Wreech Bow deals more damage at 60% or lower critical chance.

Maga Bow is obviously the idea Large target killer but performs somewhat worse when against targets that do not benefit from its bonus damage. It does exceed the Khasti Bow when at really low critical chance by a small margin however.

Lastly, I have added elemental state scenarios specifically for those interested in Viper. You should be able to come to a conclusion as to where it is most effective given the data on the table.

Note: Superior Wreech Bow has 1 less socket than a Khasti Bow.

3 Likes
#138

What does SKC + Lv11 Briquetting mean?

#139

A perfect roll Superior Kracked Shooter after using Briquetting on it (+10% Min/Max Attack)

1 Like
#140

I have a question with Critical Attack, for example +94 from Glad Band, does it add flat +94 to Critical Attack or it also has multiplier?

Iā€™m not very familiar with the formula, and I donā€™t like to touch it :smiley:

Thanks!

#141

Thanks for that!

TL/DR
Khasti Bow (cost benefit ratio* and damage ) > Maga Bow * and Superior Wreech Bow*

  • ā€œMaga Bow is obviously the idea Large target killer but performs somewhat worse when against targets that do not benefit from its bonus damage.ā€

  • ā€œSuperior Wreech Bow has 1 less socket than a Khasti Bow.ā€

*cost benefit ratio => cost to enchance it, market price from recipe, easy to farm mats to craft it.

@Mamark

Skill damage atribute multiples crittical attcks so it scales well end game.