Do we even have correct data to know how much real time would take to get to those levels? Because for that we don’t just need numbers on how much exp do you need per lvl or how is the exp curve or whatever, you also need data on maps, monster’s lvls and exp and how much you get from quests/cards. So far we’re just assuming things by experience which leads to another thing… everyone is new to the game, not everyone is leveling or even grinding in a efficient way—thing that happens in a lot of games, just people who really care and searches and learns/asks level in an efficient way. I’ve seen people on other low rates MMORPGs taking literally ages to level up their character even if the exp rate is “good” or “official” and others taking way less time just because they find the efficient way lol
So judging by this thread the only people that want huge grinds are people that get INTENSELY worried they might not be number #1 or that other people might be getting some sort of unfair advantage.
That’s pretty funny how it’s not related to things like fun or anything like that. They just want people to suffer as they do, confident that they are enough of a lowlife to handle it.
it would take literal years to get a character to the 400-500 range
I don’t see a problem with that. What exactly awaits us at level 500? Why do you want to get there so badly?
I’ve played MMOs before that had no level caps whatsoever, where at some point your level became meaningless and I still was able to see all the content of it despite the fact that I was 100 levels below the guy with the highest level in the game
Well, all i want is to battle monsters, drop their items, get valorous money and exp. If you consider that suffering… Maybe it´s time to rethink playing this game.
Do you think you can only have fun on level 99?
I believe in the idea of having fun from lvl 1 to 99, and that is why i am not in the hurry… A good player enjoys every level, and to do that properly we need time. That´s something high rates cant offer.
Yet, release this game into Open Beta with these rates and watch how many of the population give up on it and the bad reviews pop up on Steam saying the leveling grind/curve ruins an otherwise great game; which then turns even more people away from it. <-- This is something high rates can’t offer.
I also believe in this idea, however, I’d appreciate it if by the time I hit 99 in-game, I’m also not 99 irl.
But how can you say that leveling is too slow when we have only been able to play for a week and don’t even know what future content might be like? This isn’t a matter of spending too much time to reach a certain point, since we don’t even have any direction to go at.
So please everyone, cut out that crap about “casuals who can’t deal with the old grind ways” and "hardcores who have no life and no friends ".
This isn’t matter of time you have to spend on a game, this is a matter of the game feeling personally rewarding to you.
To some people it feels more rewarding to level work longer on a goal, while some people want to experience the feeling of reward much faster and in more succescion.
I believe that if we all just get over our attitudes and simply play the game, we will be able appreciate it more and find ways to satisfy both sides
Or more like the people asking to get rid the grind or buff quests are people that get INTENSELY worried that they won’t be number one of the server or the first ones to reach max lvl because it actually needs effort and time?
Some people have more time, some other people doesn’t. As someone that has played MMOs while working and studying at the same time I wouldn’t really give any ■■■■■ even if I’m not max lvl one week after release as many of the “lowlife” you say because unlike myself they had the time, but the fact that they ARE max lvl doesn’t spoil my fun because I don’t care about others, I just want to enjoy my game 
What? Stop thinking about the game as some fine wine that has to be enjoyed through hours and hours of mindless grind. There’s nothing adventurous about killing hundreds of monsters for scraps just like there’s no glory about having to spend hundreds of hours toiling away for some meaningless number in a game. You think someone will look at your level 600 character, thousand of hours spent on it, and think “wow that guy is awesome!”? Cause that will never happen. In reality they would think that you are a loser with no life for putting up with such horrible conditions for so long.
If grinding and doing the same thing over and over is somehow some magical experience for you then play and level multiple characters at the same time or go count grains of sand at the nearest beach; Your idea of fun is not shared by the vast majority of people and even pretending to have imcgames listening to guys like you will kill the game in the crib.
If he thinks of the game as some fine wine, do you think of it like a quick snort of cocaine?
Just some quick endorphines to get a little boost?
Then throw it away and move on to the next?
There are plenty of games out there like this. ToS trys different, and if you don’t like things that are different then maybe this game just isn’t for you.
Or, you know you could get off your high horse and enjoy the game for what it is
lol bringing cocaine into this… ToS fanboi so mad
If someone brings up a inappropiate metaphor for the sake of argument then I feel like I’m allowed to do the same
And what are YOU going to do? Getting a degree in ToS? Making a career out of getting hats? Your argument seems to be
“Woaaah bro why do you like, want to get to 500? There’s like, nothing there broooo”
so just the same I could ask why would you even want to struggle mightily for each level. Seriously, the only argument that any grind proponent has put forward can be summarized as either
Cause Ragnarok did it
which is nonsense since not even RO had his much of a grind AND it had the benefit of having multiple leveling zones that were more or less suitable and profitable for specific characters, something ToS doesn’t have, or
Cause it makes me feel proud I put some effort in it
which again, is a completely nonsensical reason to want the game full of grind. Can’t you just go ahead and level multiple characters? Just sit in a field and kill monsters all day regardless of levels or quests or anything else? Do 200 push ups every time you level? The idea that people are attributing pride to something that has NO reason to be so laborious is absurd. It’s like being proud you wrapped all your christmas presents while wearing boxing gloves.
Then why do you even make this whole argument that leveling needs to be faster?
MMOs are always grindy, you do the same stuff over and over to make progess. Most MMOs simply wrap up the grind in quests, so that the player keeps feeling rewarded and keeps playing
Again, this argument isn’t about how much time you spend on playing this game, it’s about staying motivated to keep going.
And this most definetly isn’t about pride or anything. You are just pulling stuff out of your ass now.
It’s simply fact that some people prefer a reward curve where they have to overcome hardship in order to earn said reward. Other people prefer a reward curve related to quests and frequent leveling up. Theres nothing wrong with either of these 2. But there are already sososo many MMOs out there with the constant kind of reward curve, and many people who were waiting for ToS were hoping that the reward curve would be similar to RO, a slower curve with less frequent reward.
AGAIN THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH TIME YOU SPEND ON THE GAME.
Because we all end up spending similar amounts of time on these kind of games anyways, the difference is that other games distribute the content different, much more thinned out to meet the expectation of quick constant reward
Now, how would your perfect MMO even look like? Please do explain it to me, I genuinly want to know. Obviously you are the kind of person who prefers frequent reward, but why do you insist that this all is about some kind of pride game where others show off their progress. In the end it’s all about our individual fun, so please tell me what a MMO has to do in order to be fun to you
Let’s look at it this way. If the grind is twice as fast, how many of you grind lovers will quit? I suspect not many. The game will still be slow and grindy. If this grind stays, how many grind-haters will quit? Probably quite a few. This also has to do with the fact that there are much fewer people that actually like grinding. I am of the opinion that from a purely business perspective, this kind of grind is a no go.
As for my personal arguments on why the grind should be less, it would be so that we can experience the joys of our chosen class and build faster. ToS has an amazing amount of classes, and skills that all interact with eachother differently. This is one of it’s main drawing points. I want to try using safety zone level 15 and patron saint in conjunction with Sadhu’s out of body DPS, the synergy looks amazing! I’d also like to try a pure crit based hoplite 3 build. These are not the only builds I want to try. I have so many things I want to play in this game, but if the grind is this bad, then it’s going to take me forever to try them all out, and pick the one I want to stick with. I’m not saying I need to get to max in a week. I’m saying the exp curve should be made in a way that I can get to circle 3 or 4 without that much trouble. It can be as grindy as it is now after that.
Also ToS is not going to become a clone of all the other modern MMO’s by lowering the grind a bit. If anything, I feel like with it’s unique build system, it would thrive with getting max level quickly, so you can try as many things as you want. However, many people enjoy at least some grind, and I understand that. It’s just that even for some of those people this grind is too much too fast.
Totally agree with you. Low rates are perfect
Think people are worried about the wrong things. This is cbt, nothing
is set in stone yet. Pretty sure they just wanted to make sure the game
was playable.
I dont mind it taking long time, aslong as theres things to DO.
Meaning there are enough Quests, group dungeons etc to do to take your through all levels.
Grinding for 10 levels to get to next area, then grind for another 10 levels is bad game design and gets boring extremly fast.
There has to be a main quest to follow, and sidequests to do (NPCs) or players loose interest very fast.
But why do you guys want a twice as fast grind? People who don’t like grindy games will continue to complain until there is none. The fact is that the entire synergy in which the game mechanics (classes, combat, equipment, etc) work revolves around monsters stats (ressitences, weaknesses) and, therefore, grinding.
Do you want to kill faster? Get this skill and not that one. Do you want to complement your friends party by tanking? Go with this class and not that one. Is this a good spot to grind? Use this weapons and no this one.
The fact that this is a grindingfest, is exactly what brings variety to this game. Not all classes can grind in the same places and that’s perfect, because it make most places relevant. Even if you have a map every 3 levels or 1 level, some of them are empty because we haven’t figured out yet how to exploit those spaces or some other need work in order to be more attractive for certain classes.
Making this game more appealing to “the market” (which is the post-WoW crowd) may affect what the developers are trying to build as an experience through this game. Plus, I’ve seen many cool MMO die for this “appeal to the market” and lack of “end game” due to changes in the developing ideas due to this kind of things.
In the other hand, besides grinding, what else do you expect of this game? Over all, MMO are quite boring once you notice that its main point is killing monster. The other systems (GvG, PvP) don’t even work to give you something else to do.
Lastly, I dinged lvl 90 today, and let me tell you that the amount of time that it took each level since 25 has been about the same (45 mins). Some people reached over 100 during this beta. It isn’t that difficult if you know where, how and what you need to grind quickly.
So, I believe the people who don’t really want to spend their time grinding areas, grinding to build characters for PvP, grinding to get specific items for crafting, and so on, should look for something else. This is a niche game, as some people have said repeatedly, and if you guys want to have another kind of experience, look for another. I believe the market has enough people interested to spend time in this game. Maybe not like other games in the genre, but probably enough to stay and build upon that.
If I remember right, GW2 actually punishes you if you try to grind. It doesn’t matter how they try to fill this with "look at this much story going on"or “buy please this new skin”, it doesn’t appeal to some of us who enjoy this kind of games for what they can offer from a character building perspective. It actually aliante some of us who are looking for this kind of game.
Please, let us have ONE hardcore grinding game.
But… increasing the experience rates is not going to get rid of the grind… Even if they do that the game will still be quite grindy. Why will you not acknowledge this point?
Also I’m sure there are quite a few other extremely grindy games you can play. You know why you’ve never heard of them? Because they’re dead, and don’t make any money.
…
Being told to look for something else doesn’t feel very nice does it? Everyone here has been anticipating ToS. Let’s not ■■■■■■■ tell each other to go look for another game.