Anyone else thinks that in order to make lower ranks like 1 - 4 they need buff?
Good way would be to make the % attribute damage go beyond 100 maybe to 150?
I think that would be a good way to make the early game damage skills still useful in end game.
No.
If you don’t want your rank 1-4 classes to fall off, then pick the ones that don’t fall off (for example, Cryo’s damage is not that high to begin with, but the freeze duration is consistent so you can use cryo skills as CC regardless of level)
The ones that have worse scaling usually are stronger in that particular level range (Barb for example)
It’s your choice if you want skills that will be used even at higher levels or stronger skill for the level.
Take a look at my suggestion post, may help with low class problems. And sure I’m up for any low class buffs, I think they are to weak, maybe huge buffs to C2 & C3 could fix it.
To me, only Swordsman can fall off at later game, but I think Restrain can proc on skills too.
Wizard’s Sleep scale well with 17s CC, also Quick Cast is a insane skill for what it does and the attribute.
Archer’s Swift Step, Multi-Shot and Full Draw also scale well. Swift Step for % evasion, Multi Shot because of number of hits, Full Draw for the Skew duration.
Cleric’s Heal and cure, nuff said.
Cryomancer’s Ice Wall, Subzero Shield and Frost Pillar
Quarell Shooter C3 have +200% basic attack damage
Ranger has 45% of bonus damage
Priest’s Mass Heal, Revive and Ressurect and Stone Skin
Krivis’s Daino
Highlander’s Skyliner, Crosscut and Skull Swing
Peltasta’s Umbo Thrust
Of all the rank 1-2 Classes, only Pyromancer can fall off (in my point of view)
And I would suggest the skills scale with class cicle for multiplier
Yeap, totally agree.
I think the point is low tier damage dealing classes are replaced by high rank dps classes that can easily deal 2 times the damage from a lv5 skil against 2 lv10 skills from your previous rank skills.
I could suggest something like once your character reaches a certain level, a small boost is given to your lower tiered classes just so they could keep up without being thrown aside for being a waste of sp
Well… The first classes can be still be useful in the game game. They got skills that allows them to still be efficient and useful. Clerics still have heals, Swordsman still has damage and buffs and Archers and Mages still have skills.
The only problem is that they have bad damage scaling but their effects are still useful. Bash is useful if you plan on having a punish skill, Mages and Archers still have efficient damaging skills and Cleric’s heals scale from the person’s HP.
But it’s best to not dwell on low rank classes. Higher ranks have better damages and better skills than low rank.
i already made a few comments on this.
tos game design is made to have low ranks fall off, replacing them with new ones. thats fine. no scaling? thats fine.
i used to also be frustrated, until i realized this
you have limited keys on your keyboard for skill shortcuts. of course u cant fit all of the skills on your keyboard/ controller.
however, i do think it would be more interesting if late game includes all skills and all skills are still viable. it would be a better dynamic.
i just wont be upset, just a bit disappointed.
one thing that upsets me is that the late game skills that ktos got recently (rank 7) was a bit disappointing.
warlock:
pole of agony 2 minute cd…wtf?!?
invocation 1 minute cd…wtf?!?
mastema 37 cd…wtf??..
musketeer:
snipe 25 sec cd…wtf…i say 35
kabbalist:
Gema…wtf!!!
Nota…wtf!!!
reduce…wt mother of f?
since late game we start to lose the power of staple skills like fireball and flame ground we need to start to replace them with staple skills from higher ranks. except there arent any because all of them have high cd.
I’d be okay with lower ranks falling off…if they all did.
But with CC, certain buffs/utility etc that stays consistently useful in the later game being a thing for many classes… this simply isn’t the case.
One solution would be if they made sure they give EVERY single class at least one gimmick that does not fall off. But it’s probably late for that and I’d personally prefer the other option:
I’d be all for some kind of additional scaling for early classes. Not as much that they’d be stronger than the high classes, but at least close behind them.
If done right, it would add incentive to make more unique builds.
Let’s take Pyromancer as an example. It’s an R2-class (it’s unlocked with rank 2), and therefore, its damage output is made with that in mind. In other words, dps-wise its inherently outclassed by a high class like R7-Warlock.
So you either pick Pyromancer early, to use it early, or you simply shouldn’t get it because by R7 a big number of the other options are superior.
So,what I’d want to see, is, picking Pyromancer for my R5-class, and it feeling as strong as if it was on par with a legit R4-class at least.
And of course the same being true for someone who has had PyromancerC1 since R2.
I want to see people being able to make choices, where if they have tons of favourites among the early Archer classes, but don’t really like any of the higher rank ones, they can use their 7 ranks all on R1-R3 classes, without feeling severly punished for that.
I’ll probably make a Wiz-Cryo3-Pyro3 regardless of whether something like that is ever going to be implemented, probably even moreso due to it’s rarity and uniqueness on a server, but it would be quite cool if it didn’t feel like a gimped character when other partymembers are way ahead in terms of dps and all.
Oh and also, I could be way off and uninformed about specific balances between higher CDs on stronger skills and how much of the early classes are actually completely useless in late-game, or IMC has plans to balance it all in order to achieve some kind of equilibrium I’m talking about, but in another way.
basically u want a scaled skill.
i disagree. the ones that stay relevant (CC-cyromancer, wiz3-%dps, linker, chrono at least for wizards) are harder to level and the players who go that path should be rewarded.
well whats funny is that i was a pyro main and in the wiz tree of dpsers only pyro fall off in damage (aand maybe thauma) so it hurts me. as a solo pyro, linker is a must to keep up dps, and taking 2 ranks linker hurts as i cant take more dps classes.
also because of flame ground slow ticks and pillar’s 2m cd.wtf.
I also plan a Wiz-Pyro3-Cryo3 (for Role Play basicaly) but seems that EVERYONE agrees that pyro3 is almost completely useless in late game… That means any late game DPS build should just pick wiz3 and good support classes until rank 7, and could be even worse at rank 9-10… And I’m one of those people that like the early rank classes but don’t like the rank 7 classes… Still waiting for the Enchanter and Sage…
Harder to level classes being those that stay relevant… good point. And I do like that idea a lot.
But isn’t the gap between similar rank classes that stay useful and ones that become useless too big at least?
And back to my “let’s incentivize diversity in builds”-line of thought (unless it’s just me who thinks it’d be fun).
Looking at that case the same way: Picking an early-dps class at a later rank is arguably the “hardest” path, but it’s also the least rewarding, as the class is inherently inferior and therefore was only a viable option if taken early when it was unlocked. Any ideas how that could be changed in some other way?
(I’ve only come up with some kind of scaling. With say each new Rank offering you an attribute that adds +x% on damaging skills from classes unlocked from lower ranks or something)
i think adding more things to balance would be hard for those poor devs working 24/7 to get this game released. (sarcasm)
its true it would add diversity…i gotta think a bit…
the game is designed to go forward without looking back. its true going back to lower classes will be a setback.
lets make some examples:
swordsman goes swords>pelt>hop3>doppel>dragoon
however he wants to go back and get high2 for skyliner
he would have to sacrifice 2 ranks (8-9) for 1 move. this makes no sense.
or, (this was mentioned in another post)
swordsman, same build, wants to pick up a hidden class rank3 in exchange for rank 8. this case the swordsman has the choice of rank8 or rank3. thats no problem. if he wants both, you probably need another character anyway.
in the first case, i feel like if u need to go back u planned the character wrong. if u went full support and want to take damage lower ranks, dont expect to have a huge boost of 5k dmg per hit in a lvl 5 thrust, lvl 5 fireball. thats your choice, the game moves forward. you can take a dmg class rank 7+
I think they should just buff Rank 1~3 classes after C2. It’s absurd that while a Barbarian (Rank 4) deals 1K per skill, swordman C3 or HL C3 at same level deals half of it… 50% difference in power is absurd.
Doesn’t help that Dragon Gael Burg deals 7x more damage than any early class skill.
They said the first few ranks are meant for beginners.
The problem is not buffing them, because you have nothing to compare (do you buff it up to level 300? Level 500? Level 600? There is no limit).
What they need to do is to ensure skills are scaled with stats. However, the stats itself is not properly designed, so they simply cannot scale and balance. It is a design flaw.
I am still looking for feedback on some new stats idea (for this game or not) if anyone want to contribute: Suggestion for Base Stats
I dont like the idea of have useless low rank skills. Those ranks need to have something that helps later, which doenst need to be pure damage, but a damage buff or a mechanical skill like shield buck., cross guard and CC. Right now, SwordC3 doesnt offer much of those things… And thats IS a issue.
hmm for starters damage wiz
damage wiz only has pyro link, psycho ice fb combo, wiz3 elem3. thats literally it. 7/14 red symbols but only 3 solid builds. wiz has lot more support/utility classes and choices. as a dps wiz main im disappointed. 2/3 are burst, long cd. 1/3 low dmg.
swords has 9 red classes/14. of course some are weak.
however some attacking classes suffer 3 star dungeons making tank meta late game. but if its tank meta late game it lacks defensive classes. all the dps swords get screwed if they dont build right. however 1 point in pelt 1 and they are still useful.
archers are getting % buffs which means they are going to be late game dps dealers.8/13 attack, the limited build are small however. some classes are utility, making these classes weak and since they dont really help these classes struggle. however if they are paired up with these strong dps builds, they might be weaker, but still okay.
clerics have 4/14 dps 1 tank though. they builds are diverse as they are not pressured to dps. and even dps moves scale with int. they are not in a bad spot
in the end game it expects
swords 1/3 dps 2/3 tank role
wizards 3/4 dps 1/4 support utility roles
archers 100% dps role
clerics 4/5 support 1/5 dps role
however the reality of the class distribution is that
swords 4/5 dps 1/5 tank (although any pelt 1 can tank)
and swords fall in dps late game
wizards 1/4 dps 3/4 support utility
archers 3/4 dps 1/4 support
clerics 1/3 dps 2/3 support
clerics need dps to lvl, those who go full sup suffers
I agree. I think people may argue that you can pick on the classes that does the job. However, I don’t find it smooth on picking them. For example, taking Cleric all healing abilities, you do not feel you are really playing/positioning as a healer role. Playing Wizards do not feel you are the glass canon. Maybe it is just me.
They could make it that going further into a class circle tree unlocks more damage% attributes. Like C1 100 C2 125 C3 150.
Or they could use modifiers that grow with your character.
Skill damage x rank
Skill damage x character lv
Skill damage x weapon lv
Not that hard to think off.