Tree of Savior Forum

[DISCUSSION] Should skill lvl be lock by circles?

Suggestions
#1

To make things clear, I’m talking about the fact that you need C2 and C3 to max a single skill.

…And I think it shouldn’t be like that, it restrics so many builds in a game where we already have so many restrictions. Some of us are forced to change our whole builds just to get that single skill you wanted.

I’m fine with having to get C2 and C3 to access some great skills, and they could even put some attributes behind a circle wall and I wouldn’t care. The problem is the fact that you’re stuck with 45 levels of pain just to get that 1 or 2 skills max out, and having to figure it out what you’ll do with that extra 10~15 skill points that doesn’t fit your build.

I’ll make some examples here to try to help my case:

  • Most of us are stuck with our first class Swordsman, Cleric, Wizard and Archer. And most of us aren’t willing to go C3 with any of those classes, but wouldn’t mind LVL15 “Pain Barrier” or LVL15 “Heal”.

  • Think about the possibilities and opportunities we can open up with this single change, and to balance we could only open said skills’ attributes only in C2 giving more rewards to players willing to go C2 & C3 of any class.

  • Aren’t you tired of having to go Pelta C3 just because of “High Guard” and losing the possibilitie to get those cool Rodeleiro Skills?

  • How many of us want to mix more classes but can’t because you’ll be capping your character by only having a lot of LVL5 skills just because you couldn’t max the ones you really want.

NEW BUILDS EXAMPLES:

SWORDS:

1. Sword > Pelta > Hopt > Pelta > Rod > Rod > Rod

Trust LVL 15 > Swash LVL 5 / Umbo Blow LVL 10 > Stabbing LVL 15 > High Guard LVL 10 / Umbo Blow LVL 15 > Montano LVL 15 > Shield Charge LVL 15 > Shield Bash LVL 10 / Shooting star LVL 5

2. Sword > HL > HL > Hopt > Hopt > Dopp > Dragon

Gung Ho LVL 15 > Wagon Wheel LVL 10 > Skyliner LVL 10 / Crosscut LVL 10 > Stabbing LVL 10 > Long Stride LVL 10 / Spear Lunge LVL 10 > Deeds of Valor LVL 15 > Dragontooth LVL 15

WIZARD:

1. Wiz > Pyro > Cryo > Ele > Ele > Chrono > Warlock

Earthquake LVL 15 > Flare LVL 15 > Ice Bolt LVL 15 > Electrocute LVL 10 > Meteor LVL 10 / Freezing Sphere LVL 10 > Slow LVL 15 > Dark Surge LVL 15

PS: Have to stop here cause I have to Work now, but few free to post your cool build ideas in the comments.

I want to know your opinion on the matter, should IMC free us of our Circle shackles?

Thank you for your time!

Low Rank Clasess fall off
#2

1 Like
#3

Why?

Cool .gif tho, very profound. Really show exacly your opnion and arguments.

#4

Ok. so lets just say there are no Circles in ranks meaning at C1/RANK1 I can get all skills from C1 to C3

OHHH… I wanna be a clerc(getting all skills from c1-c3) rank1
OHHH… I wanna be a priest(getting all skills from c1-c3) rank2

and so on…

do you get the point?

#5

I think you didn’t read what I said… I didn’t say anything about abolishing Circles, nor anything about you being able to get C3 skills at C1…

What I’m saying is taking the restriction of leveling a C1 skill, example: currently if you’re C1 swordsman you can only up your Gung Ho (C1 skill) to lvl 5 of 15 levels, I’m saying they should let you level your C1 skill, in this case Gung Ho, to level 15 without you need to get C3.

Trolls, trolls everywhere…

#6

Ohh… I get, sorry for the confusion… well…

Its still a…

so at c3 instead of 5/5 skill levels I get 15 for the new skill?

do i get it right now?

15/15 stone skin lol

#7

Balance issues. Simple as that. Lvl 15 Dark Surge at C1? That’s broken af. That’s something that probably deserves to be in Rank 9 and not Rank 7.

2 Likes
#8

not a good idea doing it that way. trust me

tos clearly and purposefully made it so some skills wont scale. they are to be thrown away, even entire circles in late game. my personal approach to this is trying to find a longer lasting rank/class to pick that is still relevant.
what is frustrating is that some skills end up being useless and there’s no point taking them. so builds end up being similar or almost the same. there are limited skill points on each circle so its not a huge issue
however the fact that you dont see another pyromancer use flare and go, “hey he went that skill thats pretty cool” instead u usually go “he’s such a noob he actually took that skill?” i feel like more viable choices of skills within circles would make the classes more dynamic and fun

if u want an example. pyro’s flare and cyro’s ice blast. it looks cool and all…
i actually dont care if it doesnt scale. its just that even within the level its worthless. if it actually did 200 base damage lvl 1 or took 5 mp i might even take it. it hasnt been buffed since the game was on cbt… i dont think
it just shows that the devs themselves dont know the game enough to balance it. i dont think they even played it themselves…

for stats i dont really see the problem. except for int which scales exactly like str and yet has no benefits. -unloved

the balance of classes is also one issue. but let’s face it, it will never be balanced. 80 classes end game? never. however, the buffs and nerfs should be reasonable, consistent, and always trying to be balanced. and i hope the community understands that.

i do understand why primary classes in their 2/3 circles are nerfed
its because everyone is forced to get the first class and it gives a huge advantage to those going wiz2, sword2, etc. however, it might be a bit too nerfed?

anyway sorry for the long post
/1000 characters

#9

The problem is not the design of the skill, but the base stats are not being scaled. See my suggest on base stats: Suggestion for Base Stats.

If the base stats scale with skills, they should be similar. The only difference should be the combo it provides (some given elemental weakening, then some provide the elemental damage increase, and etc.).

#10

I thought about it too before… and I think it could be good but it would be a lot of work to rebalance the game for it at this point… so I don’t think it could happen now.

#11

oh btw base stats are scaled. dont you know?
game mechanics. i dont have the link tho sry.

#12

I know the formula, but as I explained, you get more skill base bonus based on Rank, which means, lower Rank will not do the same damage as higher rank (that is what we refer to not scaling). If skills are heavily based on their skill damage, it won’t scale or it will be OP in the beginning.

Someone suggested on the other post, and have skill damage as multiplier, which I think would solve the issue between skill levels.
Eg.
Skill A +1.1 STR at level 1, +1.2 STR at level 2, …, +2.5 STR at level 15 (max)
Skill B +1.2 STR at level 1, +1.4 STR at level 2, …, +3.0 STR at level 10 (max)
With multiplier above, it can scale better, and more focus with stats, instead of flat damage increase.

#13

And that is why you are playing games instead of dev games. It is probably the worst idea ever… wait, where is the guy who wants to choose skills from any class instead of making ranks/circles? I think you could have a friend xD

#14

that would scale, but there is a big problem
if a skill for example said
base dmg 100 x1.0Str at lvl 1 and it scales off of that, dex swordsman will be nerfed depending on how many skills scale off of str, and vice versa.
cleric tree has a bit of that problem there

i have said this in 3 posts and i will say it again
skills are purposefully and clearly designed not to scale well
so even if there are skills that scale off of int
the skills themselves dont have a big difference between lvl 1 and lvl 15
why? because the skills are eventually meant to be thrown away end game.

thats just the game design, i dont agree with it, but its not a mistake.

#15

See my problem is that to have a viable build you HAVE to do that. Seems like they are just being lazy instead of thinking of ways to let all classes retain viability. It’s going to get to a point where we are at rank 10 classes and pre rank 6 skills will be a distant memory due to their lack of scaling, and that’s kinda messed up imo.

2 Likes
#16

I highly agree. I hope later classes will be able to buff lower ranks skills somehow and not let us forget the first 5 circles we chose

#17

I doubted, and the biggest issue is the balance of stats itself (scaling to the skill or not). Pretty much SPR is useless at higher level, which leaves you with Attack stats (STR/INT) and CON. If you are physical attack based, then get Crit to a certain point.

1 Like