Tree of Savior Forum

Limited Hidden Class

Class and Rank
#101

People keep talking like if they don’t get one hidden class they will die and the experience will be ruined. Why? I don’t see a reasonable motive behind that, everytime a creator give in for this kind of tantrum the creation suffer later on.

There’s no proof that everyone with hidden classes will be stomping on the rest of the player base, there’s no reason to make them unlimited just because they have to make every experience on the game available to everyone, you can’t have it all, there will be things you could not even possible do in a vast mmo like that.

The whole concept of “everyone should have everything” is harmful, I get that people are afraid to miss some great content and felt kind disapointed by they “normal” character, but why? If you can’t enjoy the game with the “default” classes, another one would not make a difference.

About the fact that only the most hardcore 24/7 players will get them is only viable if hidden classes were build in overpowered, because if don’t, most of the time they will be getting the default one with more advantages like a OP wizard class or something. Why would someone with the goal to beat everyone all the time will waste his time with a weaker class just cause is rare??

I really don’t mind if I never get a single hidden class, despite all my efforts.

1 Like
#102

lol, I agree, but I think as far as base content should go, everything should be available to everyone apart from the cash shop items/cosmetics and such, which is a completely different topic. It should be available in the sense that it’s plausible to get, it doesn’t have to be easy. They can monetise it, by making it easier if they like, but I think an outright ban is pretty ludicrous. Mostly because I like games to be as balanced as possible. This game will probably turn into a perfect imbalance game, where A beats B, B beats C, C beats A (rather than everyone can beat everyone else). So what if B just happens to be a hidden class, which can just counter all those A players, but only a certain number of players can play it. It just seems silly.

Also many games have been ruined before launch because of players having too much faith in a game and not asking the hard questions or worrying over the progress. Not giving enough of a **** can be just as detrimental as giving too much.

2 Likes
#103

Those items also relied extremely on RNG, though - sure, there was effort involved in doing MvP many and many times, but in the end you still had to rely on luck. Same for the components for godlike items.

Anyway, what could make getting a class “difficult”?
If you have to do some obscure (but plausible) things to unlock some kind of quest, maybe by chaining together hints hidden in seemingly meaningless conversations made by npcs around the world, that could indeed be difficult. That is, for the one that works toward discovering it. But it would be also utterly simple once that one explains what to do to other people. Even if there are some randomized factors (like, every char can only trigger specific X out of Y npcs), since there can be done guides for that as well…
Unless, of course, there are limits. And a cap on the number of people that can take it is a way to do that.
Want to involve rare items to artificially limit the availability of the quest? Fine, but then it will depend on RNG. And RNG rewards luck, but not necessarily effort.
Sure, one other way would be to have many different factors, randomized per character, that can dictate the availability of the quest itself. But again, without any cap, it would fall apart after a while. People would be able to check whatever factor there, cross-check with other people and put some guide with the results - without even bothering with the quest itself. Unless those prerequisites are so obscure and illogical that people can’t even understand them, and then we again end up relying heavily on luck.
Assuming instead that it depends on massive quantities of common items, then it would just reward grinding. Sure, there is effort involved, but in the end it would just depend on playing a lot of time.And surely wouldn’t be considered difficult.
Even “difficult” fights to get such a class would pose limits to someone - due to latency, lag and such things. Or even just physical ones - older people may not have good reflexes, after all. And it wouldn’t necessarily be appropriate for non-combat hidden classes, assuming there will be such things.

Anyway, whatever they do, there will still be something that will be deemed “unfair” by someone. Be it due to luck, time, or issues, as long as there is some way to limit players. It is part of the concept of those alternative, hidden, limited classes.
Some people may feel jealous, be unhappy. But that would happen in any case. So, i think devs should just not care about them. And just follow their vision, whatever the result may end up being. Either way, it would be something fresh, at least.

#104

I think there is a good way to dont make a limit but it will be difficult for the developers.
Make a quest to achive the hidden class and limit this quest for 10 people. After 10 people will finish the quest they close this way to get the hidden class and open another (different) quest for 10 people to get this hidden class… CICLE.

1 Like
#105

Is this whole limited thing confirmed or just theory? Cuz this thread is a joke ._.

#106

mmm I agree… mostly.

However just to make something clear. I don’t like this limited player idea the dev’s have. We can all have our own opinion, the dev’s in the end can do what they want. However I just don’t like it. So for me, the definition behind the “limited” hidden classes, would preferably be if they were planning to just make it difficult to gain access to the class. That’s why I argue for it. Not because I love the idea, but because it’s the best outcome when reading into the possibilities they meant by “limited” in my opinion.

Yea, eventually everything will get figured out and bosses which used to be hard become more trivial. As for RNG… In some ways I think completely random luck is more fair than just stopping players after a certain point. At least you get a shot at the lottery and everyone has the same chance for a drop. I can’t be angry at someone for getting lucky. Also It’s been proven if you work hard enough at something, even if it is insanely RNG, eventually you will get what you worked towards. Either way, I’ll just see what they give us I guess.

I do think limiting the number of players to play an available class is a bit lame though. I don’t see a good reason for it in the end. All the reasons I’ve seen so far can be easily rebutted by just suggesting that these hidden classes have difficult quests or you can get any of the classes, but you can only pick one on that account. Or even just lose the right to a class by not MvPing or PvPing or some other requirement. Limiting just seems like such a last resort, but I’m repeating myself now.
@Addiktion It’s a theory, the developers stated that they wanted to “limit the number of hidden classes on a server”, we don’t know if they mean by setting a numeric limit to the classes or if they are just making them difficult to get. But for some reason it’s imperative to limit the number of hidden classes.

1 Like
#107

so join the panic with the rest of the community due to lack of information!

2 Likes
#108

This is true for 90% of the forum right now xD.

#109

It was mentioned by Devs somewhere but I forget where. Unless it was a bad translation, it seemed as though they were saying there would be a limit on the number of that hidden class per server.

#110

That’s exactly how it should be though. A casual player should never reach the level of gear or achievements a hardcore player will.

As for the fact that some players would complain that the Hidden Class (If it is OP) is an unfair advantage, that would causes incredible focus around those special players. Guilds would fight it off to recruit those hidden class players and if WoE comes back there may be special strategies based on utilizing or countering those players.

It’s an exciting idea and I personally do hope they limit the class slots for hidden classes. It would cause a competitive environment in the game which so many MMO’s just don’t have anymore.

EDIT: Also, according to this post on reddit, Hidden Classes would may not be until 9th circle

1 Like
#111

Well it would be Epic hard if a hidden class condition will be like,…

Just an EXAMPLE!!!

You Need 3 Circle on the Base Class or Insert Specific Class

You need to have this quest and this amount of stats for Insert Str/Int/Dex etc…

Do this quest and so on,… :confounded: i’m pretty sure that will be hard cause when they release the info about it or someone get the info to do it but doesn’t get the required condition :joy:

@Addiktion https://www.reddit.com/r/treeofsavior/comments/387kc2/full_ftg_interview/ well this is where i got the speculation about it,…

#112

This depends on how they manage the ranking system and how you interpret the quote. That post was referring to:

A) Our original plan was to open up to Rank 10~11, but we are thinking about changing that. We are thinking about hiding 20 classes so there is a chance that the last rank could be 8, but it’s not confirmed yet

There are 2 Options here:

  1. They mean hiding 20 classes as in keeping them unreleased, retaining the original rank 10 system and capping the open beta at rank 8. This is what I hope this meant. In the case they’ll probably be placed anywhere in the skill tree if the comment about some of them having 3 circles is true. I think it would be very lacking in creativity to have this feature (varying amounts of circles for hidden classes) and then just have them peppered throughout ranks 8-10(11). Also I think that post was referring to:

  2. They literally mean making everything past rank 8 a hidden class. This would be everyone in this thread’s worst nightmare. This would, without a doubt, be OP in some way. Additionally, because of the amount of hidden classes available, there would literally be a split in the player base among veteran-hardcore and new-casual players. Like, not just a few lucky people, but a decent portion of the population.

#113

I actually don’t see anything wrong with the whole hidden class option. I mean we already have so many class options as it is o.o So what’s wrong with putting a cap on 20 hidden classes? Who’s to say that some players might even want to be those classes when they find the option in their job change or that the option will appear? It could mean that your character turns out to be something completely different from what you originally planned and have to readjust to the new skills you learn from said class. They might hinder or make your character stronger.

I think it just gives more variation to the game and keeps it interesting. Of course who wouldn’t want to enjoy every job class this game has to offer, but considering not everyone has the time to sit in front of a computer 24/7, I don’t see as a major threat to anything.

They could be implementing this cap to keep class balance in check. For example, if Shinobi class is a hidden class, then I’m sure more than 100 people would want to run around as shinobis given that they do some amazing skill or something. Also, remember anything in this game is likely to change so it might not even be permanent in the long run. :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#114

Because most of players want to become “special”. It’s like when we enter a fantasy world, we are the chosen ones. A great exciting feeling when someone’s playing an RPG and one of the reason that keep him/her playing.

1 Like
#115

I don’t know what is all the fuzz about hidden classes, they haven’t even disclosed how it’s going to finally work out. But even if it stays as it was translated on reddit, it will add a little bit more of competition between players (AT LAST!!, A MMO THAT MAKES PEOPLE COMPETE!!).

Most of the argument’s say that in most this would be only achievable by hardcore players, leaving casual players out of the competition, but I believe that it’s better to reward hard work than to reward people that just pay to win…

But since nothing is written in stone about this yet, i’ll just sit here and continue reading the drama.

#116

But we aren’t just saying it will only leave casuals out. It’ll leave other hardcore players out aswell if the maximum number is too low. But yeah, we don’t know the details yet, but unless you want a dead forum, speculation, ideas and opinions is all we have at the moment.

#117

That is the thing with competition, some win, some loose, and everyone www.losethegame.net :slight_smile:

#118

@Grillo It has been years :cry:

Pretty much agree with everything you’ve said.

#119

Different ideas on what an mmo should be I guess lol. Some win, some lose, but there’s always a second chance :stuck_out_tongue: But the competition doesn’t just end with a permanent winner ( also this will never be a sport). You might lose a castle in ragnarok, or lose an mvp, but there’s always next week.

#120

Even though I feel like Murmillo will be a basic class, it would be dope to make it an arena reward for a monthly tourney. Like the top 100 of a season get some special bonus PvP skills, but are forced to wear a big helmet for a month.