Tree of Savior Forum

Limit the number of Tokens a player can buy from Market per month

Can you elaborate? My suggestion isn’t to prevent or limit TP purchasing but how many times a single account can buys Tokens from market with silver.

The player buying tokens with TP can sell it on market normally, the only changes happens on who is buying the tokens from market which doesn’t really relates to limiting what a person can buy with TP, only the very specific case of someone trying to manipulate the price of a lot of Tokens at the same time.

Theoretically, at least for me, most of Tokens sold aren’t for a single person, having this limitation only prevents overbuying from a single account.

Isn’t the effect the opposite if people don’t have the silver to buy tokens? The more expensive they are, the harder it is for lower level players to catch up and keep going. If Tokens are cheaper they get sold more, if they’re more expensive, less Tokens are sold.

It is a good thing when the prices go up naturally, but is it really healthy when it is manipulated by a small set of people such as a few people having 100+ tokens on hold at the current state of the game?

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Pretty much, since no one will work his ass off for days or weeks just to buy a token that last 1 month, I mean, you will work (depending on the price and of course the amount of time you can play per day or week) 2 days to 15+ days to buy a token, which lead us to force the player to buy TP to have one.

This only discourage new players joining, if that was the case, might as well remove the trade ability of the token and screw the whole thing.

We are trying to figure out a decent way this can be done, people are greed? Yes, but do we have to accept that greed? I don’t think so, also, that greed will lead to the closure of the game faster.

Tree of Savior evolved to Club of Savior, where only a few selected (who will pay for less restrictions) can play.

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@LunarRabbit


I would agree with that, and that’s a good suggestion for IMC to consider.

Still if nearly everyone at some point has already bought a token for the month, wouldn’t that freeze IMC’s profits on tokens until the next month?


I suggested to have the token benefits reworked. It’s stupid the way it is now. If there’s enough interest on how I’d rework it, I’ll create a separate suggestion post for it (it will of course include other things outside of tokens for it to work).

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I think it is kinda complicated because it is like going from a scenario which Tokens stays normally on market and everything is natural, there are no need to control.

Then it turns into an extreme because few people buying too many Tokens and holding them up forcing price to go up.

How can it solved without going to another extreme? That’s the most I could think of in a way that it hurts less and only deals with the people actually holding a lot of Tokens but hurts a bit who fairly resells them.

I’d also love to see less restrictions and Token rework but I think it is a bit too far from reality compared to the issues we have currently, that is, lower level players starting to see the effects of Token price going up unnaturally because small groups with too much silver.

I always thought that tokens being a necessity (for those who want to invest more in the game) instead of for convenience is the culprit.

If one doesn’t use a token in this game:

  • Takes days-weeks to level/max attributes <— 3 out of 5 P2W
  • 30% market tax (vs 10% of token users) <— 3/5 P2W
  • Limited market listing
  • NO +3 increased character movement <— may not matter in PVE, but definitely matters somewhat in PVP, 2/5 P2W
  • NO +30% EXP from hunting monsters <— this I can accept, not a really gamebreaking rate
  • NOT Able to use Premium Gestures <— this is very OK (more cosmetics and effects, less P2W sh!t)
  • NO Increased maximum buff count <— P2W in the face! 5/5 P2W
  • Personal trades w/ non-token users make stuff untradeable <— stupid concept wtf 5/5 P2W
  • NO 1 extra instance entry for missions and dungeons <— 4/5 P2W

This game doesn’t need more restrictions in terms of gameplay but rather more freedom. They should just make the player WANT to invest money in the game, NOT FORCE.

POE was able to achieve this in an always-questionable Free-To-Play MMORPG model. AFAIK they even only have almost half as much players as iTOS had at launch, and now they have more than doubled that number for Steam users alone.

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I would rather they figure out some way to get more tokens on the market than put in restrictions again. Everytime IMC tries to meddle in the market it just backfires in some unexpected way.

Maybe give out tokens as rewards in GvG for example. Or allow buying of token in TBL shop with TBL point. At least not as bad as giving out TP…

PS: if the silver price of token drops too low players will just RMT more, remember the days where token is worth only 400k? RMT pays 5x more silver than that for the same dollar.

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That’s exactly how I feel, but and when some players are forcing these restriction upon the new players? This is what is happening. And the sad truth is that it will keep going worse if nothing is changed.

Those were good old times that most likely won’t come back. But now, do you think it is really healthy to the game for a few people control the market and it can go up to a point where only old/rich players can afford tokens properly while also progressing in the game?

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One thing to note tho, if the restrictions wasn’t this heavy, we wouldn’t even have to bother with this, also, the population would be around 3x or even 5x the actual.

If they changed non-token restriction to:

  • 1 selling slot increased to 5.
  • 24h waiting to 12h or 6h.
  • 1:1 traded gear only lose potential and don’t become untradable.

More people would be here, and more important, new players wouldn’t get surprised by the actual rules, which I think it’s the main reason most of the new players leave the game fast.

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i just decided not to get baited by him… he is not looking for solution, he is looking for people to feed his ego and like what he says… I guess he has piny tenis?

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First of all, you should learn your place. I only do that to you and some people who deserve it. I already sent you a PM, if you wish to talk me about anything, just answer that PM.

Why did I flag you?


Once you learn to talk like a real person without insulting or attacking someone you’ll stop getting flags. Simple, right? Do you want me to ignore you? Do you want me to accept any all insults you have been posting and don’t flag them?

I am looking for a solution. For example, @ZeroFoxGiven answer was great, I totally agree with him. As well for other answers here.

I also agree with others here such as @unicorntheshiny posts.

Now, please explain, what solution did you offer here?

“Just because someone control the market better than me, does not mean you need to limit players”… a-am I talking about me in the suggestion?

So, what about we talk on the pros and cons about a player buying 100 Tokens? Do you disagree that they damage the new players? Why? Do you think there are any benefits for new players? Do you have any alternative that works without limiting players?

I took my time to think in a way to make the issue less worse. May I at least get a proper answer instead of personal attacks or just discarding without a reasoning? If I disagree with something I am taking my time and explaining each bit I think it shouldn’t solve. Do you think I am being wrong in one place or another? Can you cite them?

Another thing:
“2 things that destroyed our population are: Bots acceptance, trade restrictions.”

I totally agree, there are also other reasons and Token price wasn’t one of them. But in what does this relates to my suggestion? Am I talking about bringing players back? I’m talking about a fact:
Tokens price are getting higher because few people controlling market and it can have some other effects and damages the player base.

“LET US TRADE 1:1 with silver FFS, it is time to move to 2017”

Totally agree too. I too think that the 1:1 trade restriction is bad. But let’s talk, does it solves the fact of how the Tokens in market are affecting newer/lower level players? Can you elaborate more?

But let’s go back to what you were talking:
“i just decided not to get baited by him… he is not looking for solution, he is looking for people to feed his ego and like what he says…?”

Hmm, baited by what? What I am looking for: Answers that makes sense or solutions to the problem. You disagree with me? Ok I answer, I think my point is correct becase X and Y reasons. Then you answer “uh, I’m not gonna discuss with you, *insult”.

Am I doing the “discussion” thing wrong? Should I just accept any opposing opinion and leave everything as it is even if I don’t agree? Should I don’t worry on how few players are abusing he Market and how it damages lower level/new players?

So, let’s go again to what you were talking:
“Just because someone controls the market better then you, does not mean you need to put more limitations on players.”

So, does my suggestion affect you in any way? In which point do you disagree with me? Can’t we just agree to disagree? Does it affect you that much that that you don’t want this implemented? Why? Can we discuss a better detail that makes it fair for both sides?

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I totally agree, this can work if it is healthy. Also, as you can see up there in my posts I like to get the “merchant” role when the game have a design I feel good on using my time for trading things, I understand that limitations are bad.

I also talked about this earlier:

But what is happening isn’t just normal market reselling but some few select players buying all tokens to push price up and some others to make a monopoly.

Like I said before too, this isn’t illegal, there should be no punishment. But it does affect the player base and could be looked into to prevent worse things from happening.

Do you agree that this market push affects lower level players? Do you disagree? Is there any solution for this on the current game scope that doesn’t hurt who fairly resells tokens?

So, I’ll assume your answer “you disagree that it is one issue”, correct me if I’m wrong. But, why this is not an issue if there are people actively complaining about it and you can see it?

It encourages token sellers (legal RMT), ok, but that’s a bit of unrelated thing. For another part of players it is one issue.

I also talked about this:

“If this isn’t happening with me it is not an issue.” could be applied here or not.

Especially once you apply what @Nirimetus talked about dollar conversion. I won’t enter details on this since it’s already explained in a good way.

The other people who agree with my suggestion also thinks there’s one issue happening.

So, what we enter here? Are you discarding the issue? Are we creating an issue that doesn’t exist? What’s your opinion on this? Can you cite any new/lower level that doesn’t see what is happening as an issue?

Again, that’s your opinion. I’m not talking about me, I’m talking about new and lower level players. It’s not about being salty, it’s about observing one event and trying to suggest something to deal with it.

But since we’re getting into personal opinions, I’ll ask something again:
Who is the main public that resells tokens? Dina Bee AFK farmers, am I right?

I also will say it is human behavior to see unfair actions when people are forcing others to have high effort/expenses because someone else who is doing no effort. If they are too cheap to spend their time on actually playing they should also not complain about limitations caused by their lazy behavior so they don’t affect others.

I know, I know. Not everyone reselling tokens are Necromancers, right? In the same way, not everyone who buy Tokens are old/rich players.

Which I also agree, it isn’t a Design issue but is something that is ending up being abused by some players and affecting negatively a greater amount of players.

But let’s go back again:
If there’s something which is an issue to a good amount of people. Does it stops being an issue because a smaller group think it is not?

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A potential solution that could be used temporarily to see its effectiveness could be capping the price. If it gets the desired results then problem solved, if not then revert it and try again. Immediately limiting how many Tokens can be bought is a good idea, but it might be too extreme before other measures are taken. Capping the price would still allow the market to function and players to take advantage of it when possible, while stopping it from getting ridiculous.

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Down with Laissez-Faire!

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After reading and thinking about it for some time.
Maybe the easier solution and fastest one sould be:
Give a one time per account 14 days token for new players.
This happens in so many others mmos to give new players a taste of things.
With this they can see how the token works and if after 14 days of game they cant aford buying token from market they can just buy tp and buy token from it.

This can be easily done and can stimulate new players to play and buy token.
I think this is the best way to take care of this token issue easily for the community.
@staff this can be a sugestion.

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That would be a great solution, but it goes back to what is happening: there’s almost no Tokens selling on market and the few ones are overpriced or for reselling.

I kinda think about: Will it solve the case where some few players are buying too many Tokens to the point others cannot buy so these few players controls the Token Market? Which is what is pushing the price up when there are Tokens to be sold.

That’s why I thought on keeping a limit on how many a single account can buy from Market. Capping price seems fine but won’t stop a given player from, for example, buying all Tokens, and putting 3 by 3 to simulate a higher demand and low offer to sell at price cap while also hurting others because how almost all Tokens gets centralized by very few players and takes longer to make it way back into the market.

I feel that if this wasn’t being abused there would be like, no need at all to apply one limit. But on current design this is caused by other external effects, such as going to AFK farming etc, which doesn’t seem to be changing anytime soon.

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I thought the token prices were already capped? Or at least, i’m pretty certain that they are. They couldn’t be sold for more than 3.5mil which was the cap at the time, and as far as i know the cap has been risen to 5mil as of the latest patch.

But now i wonder, what is the motive behind increasing the cap ?

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I dont know if anyone notice but, once you use a token,the capping price is removed, non token users will still have the capped price

I tried it in 2 different accounts one is using token , one doesnt.

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I don’t necessarily see a problem with a few players controlling the Token market if the price is reasonable. An ideal situation would be having many players participating in selling and trading them, but if we can’t until the population recovers so be it.

Dealing with the AFK farming, balancing Silver gain, and increasing meaningful Silver sinks are all good, and necessary ideas that will take time to implement. Even if all these ideas were implemented now, it would take a while for the Silver to actually be removed from the economy.

I’d argue that 3.5m was too high already.

The reason for the change though, was probably a response to community feedback on wanting less restriction.

As for why now, that leads to a bigger question about IMC showing signs of change internally, but that’s a bit of a different topic.

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