Tree of Savior Forum

Limit the number of Tokens a player can buy from Market per month

You also have to consider the amount of inflation that is happening in the market and the game itself…

The silver sink is not effective actually just fyi. Esp for those who focus on a single character. With shiet tons of Alt. It’s pretty much peanuts.

Having more farmer diversity of mats also generate more silver some what and circulation is around. so…

Edit add in: the silver shiny mobs and gold shiny mobs. On a day average i find at least 1-3 of them. After a day with my pal in farming mats on average the silver gain is more than 12m. Yes 12m.

(considering as a Thau the split off is 50 : 50 for silver gain. So you can imagine how much is made pure silver just from farming 12hours)

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Sorry to say this, but i dont like your arguments…

1.- Buying tokens is IMC legit way to combat RMT, doesnt matter where the silver comes from, it will reach to the user that put the token in the market… later if they find a bot they will kill it, but the user that bought a token will get the silver…

2.- Even at 3 per account doesnt matter 1 bit… instead of having 10 accounts, now they will have 1000 acounts… RMT silver is always passed between multiple chars and accounts already so it really doesnt matter…

3.- IF i was high end player or hardcore or w/e you may want to call it, i myself would have bought a bunch of 2m tokens and sold them for 2.5 in this event, hence, limiting the tokens bought from market would have hindered it (have done things like this in other games and made a bunch of that game money… tis basic economics)

4.- Finally, instead of PUNISHING “AGAIN” the players due to RMT or Botters or w/e illegal thing… why not punish them instead?? having more resources towards bot hunting and ACTUALLY making a statement about what is allowed for AFK and whats not…So far Necro AFK is grey area, Sorc is a big NO, Warlocks running with macro are also a NO, and pet afk farming in dungeon is OK… So then next time you see a same path Warlock, or a AFK Necro, or a autopot Sorc… you report… then the GM list the report by number and then check… but for that it needs to make a statement( a real one) about AFK farming…

PS: best way to detect a bot is with a cryo… just move them, if they dont complain in any way, most likely they are bots…

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Also back to the point i miss out. Restricting token is one way, but it’s more of killing imc it’s self in this way.

There is actually various way to screw RMT around but this isn’t the way to cure the root cause.

Root cause are basically your bots, firm stand on macros and afk farming in this sense.

Killing them off is 1. Next you need to hyper deflate slivers. The basic system atm is inefficient actually in a sense it doesn’t bait or trap you hard enough to throw silver into the drain.

Once this two is gone the market will start to grow.

Then you will need your supply and demand + farmers + opportunities. Those who play eve will understand prolly what i mend.

Also you will need economical and strategic impose to control the whole economy. Monopoly is definitely needed in a way but in a healthy way.

You guys should go take a look at JP markets :^)

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That is an acceptable value, due exactly the event happening, but what they are doing is, buying from 2mil to sell it for 4mil+, that is one think I don’t accept, even tho it is legal, it’s a nasty way of hinder others, also, in the end, it will bite them back when they try to sell any stuff other than tokens later on, or they will simple stay as token sellers.

You have no idea how many people on the outside of the “grey area” we reported, just to find them at higher levels on the next week.

IMC won’t do a thing so soon, unfortunately, they are letting the game die little by little just for neglecting what should be common sense in an MMO adminstration.

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That’s why I say we have no problems getting the silver needed for a Token. Now, look on new players or players on lower level ranges :x

Let’s talk about tokens at 5m, can be cheap for us but can be pretty expensive for others.

It’s not bad if it goes up there naturally, means the silver in circulation and offer/demand are pushing it up.

But it is pretty bad if it is forced/monopoly because it pushes a price that only benefits a minority into a majority and new players.


@gaming.checho
We discussed this more along in the topic, there are more problems than bots/RMT in the token scene. There’s also player monopoly and price control which I didn’t think of when writing the suggestion.

I’ll edit it to add those other scenarios.

1.- I agree, the player still get the silver even if someone is buying 100 tokens all at once. But in this case it is turning into effectively “legal RMT” which hurts more than help while also making it harder for new players to buy Tokens, making it a profit tool that doesn’t even get untradable as most of other things in the economy.

2.- Again, same thing about what we discussed, 3 per account prevents market control by small number of people on Tokens.

3.- I agree, that is you. That’s one healthy way of increasing the price. You can do the same by buying 3 per account, it gets harder because more competition. But things are getting out of control currently, they’re far from this on multiple servers I think, at least in Klaipeda.

4.- There’s no real punishment, 3 Tokens buys per month is pretty fair for Premium purposes. As we also talked in the thread, the monopoly isn’t illegal (also AFK farming is allowed for now) but still hurts other players too much because of bad design of other things.

Which goes exactly into what @unicorntheshiny says. It can have bad effects. I agree with both his posts to some extent.

At least one of the things should be handled.

But on a note, I wonder if it is healthy to turn Token into a “something that people buys to resell instead of using” effectively turning them into legal RMT. It sure gives more money to IMC but not sure if it is healthy in how it is being done currently.

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LMFAO…

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I have to agree on this, The token prices in market now is broken I cant even imagine what is happen right now, its like scaring the newbies to buy tp to get token rather than saving silver and buy token…:sweat:

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It all the respect: You kind of wrotte a paradox.

You say you want this suggestion implemented to combat RMT, but when Token are in a righter price, this is exactly what make people not buy from RMT.

I will cite my serv Silute as an Example. Barely no one buy from RMT, not because they have moral or something, NO (on the contrary :smirk:), its because the risk is not worth it, since buy a Token and sell it in game is much more easy and safe, and also, great part of RMT sell silver with a price highter than the price of a Token, so lets say that: when they (RMT) resell Tokens they are harming thenselfs.

Also, keep in mind the Market already have a Limit Price for Tokens, that is 3.5kk in Silute. So that will be the max limit an player will pay for a Token, unless IMC see that the bought of Tokens has increased due to people buying it to sell in game, so they may put it at 4M, it’s bad for a new player, but for a veteran player, 3 M is still accessible.

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Hold on, on which server are people selling tokens for 5mil? They are usually 2 on mine x.x

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you can literally make 4-5m in 1 hour if you know how…

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@STAFF_Yuri @STAFF_Letitia can we get some moderation here if more trolls starts appearing? It seems to be starting to change the flow of the discussion into something outside the original scope because they are confusing other users.

No, it is not to combat RMT. The idea is to prevent lack of tokens along with overpriced ones, which can be caused by a scenario from RMT, monopoly etc.

Sorry, I’ll fix the suggestion text to explicitly talk about this. It is one suggestion and there could be more ways to prevent Tokens from turning into RMT/trading tools (also, there’s no 10% tax on selling Tokens) which only benefits a small part of players while hurting the majority of playerbase.

Also, about Silute market, there have been more of these than on Klaipeda:

@ri0ti0ri I can, I know it. But do everyone in the game can? That’s my point, by monopolizing/overpricing tokens in market (from people buying more than 10 or more Tokens per month) it gets too expensive for newer players.

And we who can buy the tokens at those prices will just keep pushing it higher if there’s lack of Tokens on market. It will keep on the same cycle while Tokens are being controlled by small groups trying to create a monopoly or pushing overpriced reselling/“legal” RMT purposes.

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Who is paying $10 for token, only who lives in US, dollar here is 3x the value, do you think, lets take me for example, would waste 30 of my currency every month to buy a premium status on a game that is on the verge of shut down, and even if that wasn’t the case, full of bugs, no solid content except mindless AFK farming, broken PvP and the same old Saalus farm?

As I said on other post above, I would waste 30 of my currency on PoE that offer better stuff like account services (stash tabs) and more decent cosmetics (one of the most neat effects to apply in gear or skills I have ever saw so far), not to count that they have a solid economy, the currency have very small fluctuation and they even have a specialized site (fan made) to deal with buying and selling that work well.

We aren’t obliged to buy TP, but the way IMC is doing business is almost forceful, exactly because of the way non-token users are even more limited.

It in fact make the player feel like a prisoner, if you don’t pay, you have to walk around with the shackles, if you can you at least walk properly, and I’m not talking about the movement speed from token.

And here I thought you had a good head over your shoulders, or is it just you trying to pick on @LunarRabbit? lol

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That’s not how you create interest on someone to buy something. People would buy tp if they feel that it’s worth, to support the game and others endless reasons. People wouldn’t buy something if they feel they are being obligated to do so ( even more if this “thing” we are all talking is cash on a digital game).

Example for small mindeds: if a new player is able to buy a token in the market once, he will probably spend all the money he has and enjoy the benefits. When the token is nearly over, he probably will not have the same amount to buy again with silver, but, if he liked his experience and likes the game, he will consider buying cash.

PS: Im talking about players, not whales lel

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IMO tokens appears to be the most effective way for IMC to compete with RMT/goldsellers. Also, the more higher priced the tokens are in the market, the more tempting it is for people to sell tokens for silver - even perhaps at some point making the practice more cost-effective than buying silver through goldsellers.

Limiting the player’s TP purchasing power will only hurt IMC more. IMC’s interest as a business will always prevail, even above that of players.

Too bad they’re too lazy to make tokens untradeable (but remove the P2W-ish aspects of it) making it a premium subscription model, and instead focus on producing quality cosmetics and effects microtransactions alongside other pay-for-convenience options that won’t break the game nor sh!t on new players who are still undecided on whether or not the game’s worth their time and money.

But hey, it’s been proven time and again that a lot of players are willing to “pay to win”, and that the model outputs a big amount of profit in a short amount of time, with less effort and expenses.


EDIT: My bad, I misread the title and went TLDR. TP shop != market. :smiley: Still stand for what I said though (even if off-topic).

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Can you elaborate? My suggestion isn’t to prevent or limit TP purchasing but how many times a single account can buys Tokens from market with silver.

The player buying tokens with TP can sell it on market normally, the only changes happens on who is buying the tokens from market which doesn’t really relates to limiting what a person can buy with TP, only the very specific case of someone trying to manipulate the price of a lot of Tokens at the same time.

Theoretically, at least for me, most of Tokens sold aren’t for a single person, having this limitation only prevents overbuying from a single account.

Isn’t the effect the opposite if people don’t have the silver to buy tokens? The more expensive they are, the harder it is for lower level players to catch up and keep going. If Tokens are cheaper they get sold more, if they’re more expensive, less Tokens are sold.

It is a good thing when the prices go up naturally, but is it really healthy when it is manipulated by a small set of people such as a few people having 100+ tokens on hold at the current state of the game?

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Pretty much, since no one will work his ass off for days or weeks just to buy a token that last 1 month, I mean, you will work (depending on the price and of course the amount of time you can play per day or week) 2 days to 15+ days to buy a token, which lead us to force the player to buy TP to have one.

This only discourage new players joining, if that was the case, might as well remove the trade ability of the token and screw the whole thing.

We are trying to figure out a decent way this can be done, people are greed? Yes, but do we have to accept that greed? I don’t think so, also, that greed will lead to the closure of the game faster.

Tree of Savior evolved to Club of Savior, where only a few selected (who will pay for less restrictions) can play.

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@LunarRabbit


I would agree with that, and that’s a good suggestion for IMC to consider.

Still if nearly everyone at some point has already bought a token for the month, wouldn’t that freeze IMC’s profits on tokens until the next month?


I suggested to have the token benefits reworked. It’s stupid the way it is now. If there’s enough interest on how I’d rework it, I’ll create a separate suggestion post for it (it will of course include other things outside of tokens for it to work).

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I think it is kinda complicated because it is like going from a scenario which Tokens stays normally on market and everything is natural, there are no need to control.

Then it turns into an extreme because few people buying too many Tokens and holding them up forcing price to go up.

How can it solved without going to another extreme? That’s the most I could think of in a way that it hurts less and only deals with the people actually holding a lot of Tokens but hurts a bit who fairly resells them.

I’d also love to see less restrictions and Token rework but I think it is a bit too far from reality compared to the issues we have currently, that is, lower level players starting to see the effects of Token price going up unnaturally because small groups with too much silver.

I always thought that tokens being a necessity (for those who want to invest more in the game) instead of for convenience is the culprit.

If one doesn’t use a token in this game:

  • Takes days-weeks to level/max attributes <— 3 out of 5 P2W
  • 30% market tax (vs 10% of token users) <— 3/5 P2W
  • Limited market listing
  • NO +3 increased character movement <— may not matter in PVE, but definitely matters somewhat in PVP, 2/5 P2W
  • NO +30% EXP from hunting monsters <— this I can accept, not a really gamebreaking rate
  • NOT Able to use Premium Gestures <— this is very OK (more cosmetics and effects, less P2W sh!t)
  • NO Increased maximum buff count <— P2W in the face! 5/5 P2W
  • Personal trades w/ non-token users make stuff untradeable <— stupid concept wtf 5/5 P2W
  • NO 1 extra instance entry for missions and dungeons <— 4/5 P2W

This game doesn’t need more restrictions in terms of gameplay but rather more freedom. They should just make the player WANT to invest money in the game, NOT FORCE.

POE was able to achieve this in an always-questionable Free-To-Play MMORPG model. AFAIK they even only have almost half as much players as iTOS had at launch, and now they have more than doubled that number for Steam users alone.

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I would rather they figure out some way to get more tokens on the market than put in restrictions again. Everytime IMC tries to meddle in the market it just backfires in some unexpected way.

Maybe give out tokens as rewards in GvG for example. Or allow buying of token in TBL shop with TBL point. At least not as bad as giving out TP…

PS: if the silver price of token drops too low players will just RMT more, remember the days where token is worth only 400k? RMT pays 5x more silver than that for the same dollar.