Please, do not talk like you know shinobi until you get one. 
The class is extremly buggy. Itâs not working as intended and pretty bad currently. 
I donât get it.
Iâm 205 right now and donât feel useless in dungs / party play, at all.
Approx. 120 STR, 30 CON, 200 DEX
Pelt 1 : Taunt + 18% additional dodge chance for taking hits instead of others.
Barb 2 : for good damage burst (<3 Seism after pull & pack)
Corsair 2 : $$$ for group + Hexen Motherf***inâ Dropper
Planning to get Fencer for rank 7 for moar tankiness + pretty dynamic gameplay + cool skin.
For what Iâve seen for now, some (not most) swordmen are, indeed, pretty useless at 200+ because they didnât even get that swordmen are naturally made for tanking and MUST tank : whatever build you take, you have a natural larger HP pool + Provoke attribute with increase you threat generation by A LOT. Pelt 1 is just for tanking comfort, pelt 2+ / rondolero is just for high end game content (and not even extremly mandatory from what Iâve read).
This is not WoW. You must accept your primary role. Else, change class.
But besides tanking, you can also deal a pretty good amount of damage, right? I mean, tanking is not the only thing you can do. You can handle it by yourself too (it might be harder though) for both PvE and PvP, I guess⌠Right?
So does that mean everyone MUST take Pelt1 for provoke and MUST carry shields at all time? I refuse to accept that every swordsman should follow its ânaturalâ course. This defeats the purpose of having a diverse class system. And unless you have a ridiculous evasion and magic defense, you cannot be a PROPER tank with a DPS build.
Just my 2 cents.
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Donât know for further levels but yeah, I donât feel âthatâ bad dps wise.
Note that Iâm pretty well geared : Magas Sword & Karacha Dagger as weapons. All numbers below are non-crit.
My Hexen Dropper deals around 10k damages per charge (a bit less maybe), with two charges, for 28 secondes CD, for example. Seism deals almost the same with a great aoe capability too. Helm Chopper deals around 2.5k per hit * 4 (2 hits per charges, 2 charges). Cleave deals around 4.5k on stunned targets, else 2.5k, 2 charges. Finally, Dust Devil deals around 5k.
Barely using Sword1 and Pelt1 damage skills as their damages per SP cost is ridiculous compared to skills above, and use is really particular situations (Umbo Blow Homerune Knockback attribute is maximum lulz).
So yeah, maybe not the craziest dps of whole game but pretty decent imo, at least at this level (205 right now, just to remember).
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Nah, Pelt1 is not mandatory to tank ; it just helps a lot during pull sessions, but itâs not mandatory, YOLO pulls work too.
Also, 24/24h carrying a shield is almost completely useless if you donât have high CON stat : your block rate will be ridiculous unless you stay Shield Guarding, but during this time, you are almost 100% useless for your group. So, nah. Shield is only useful for high CON builds or Shield Guard in dangerous situations or when you want to afk.
you cannot be a PROPER tank with a DPS build.
Yes you can, at least until high level content and itâs not even sure considering some discussions (c.f. Cathexis guide, for example). Just adapt your tanking gameplay around your build gameplay, but you can.
Anyone can â â â â â â â tank pre 200 lvl mobs okay?
You show me a dps swordsman tanking monsters, donât even have to be you, just a video.
There is none because monster hit like trucks and larger hp pool means you dont die from 1 mistake, but a few. Donât mean you can sit there and take hits while your teammates deeps them.
Also so many wizard classes do that much better. Cryo, physco, linker, are better âtanksâ than any swordsman can ever be.
Also bosses are easier then mobs later on. But hey, a dps sword with provoke cant even keep aggro.
5x DPS sowrdsman < 1x DPS archer? Yeah.
Wizard: Support (Thauma, Linker, Chrono) or Damage (all others)
Archer: Damage
Swordsman: Tank (Peltasta + something else) or Damage (all others)
Cleric: Support (Dievdirby, Priest, Oracle, Plague Doctor) or Damage (all others)
Each class have a main role, beside some Wizard classes, Archer and Wizard are only about dps and they are squishy.
Swordsman classes have high hp (pretty much 50%+ compared to the other classes) and acceptable dps, I dont think they need a buff at all.
First off, calm down.
Second, I mentionned two times that I was speaking as a level 205.
Third, I linked a video above (third post I made).
yeah, great job tanking with half of the mobs hitting your wizards, clerics and those squishy archers. It WONT work, you know WoW, then you should be quite familiar with AGRO. It wont be a problem if youre gonna go solo, but in reality, you cant solo a dungeon. And its probably gonna be hard to find proper parties later in the game if you dont have taunt to steal the AGRO.
So⌠being a DPS you probably got higher DEX instead of CON. In the event that you need to tank, youâd probably switch to one-hand & shield, right? But you have less CON so block would render useless. And so, instead, you decided not to and just trust your EVASION. Against magical opponents with magical attacks cannot be evaded, youâd be like a wet toilet paper.
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Thank you very much for clearing my mind! Your explanation truly helped and actually encouraged me to focus on swordsman.
I just want to know the exact explanation on how will you hold the aggro without a shield? You canât even out-dps the real DPS of the party. So tell us your story of tanking while other mobs killing the squishy classes.
yeah, great job tanking with half of the mobs hitting your wizards, clerics and those squishy archers. It WONT work, you know WoW, then you should be quite familiar with AGRO. It wont be a problem if youre gonna go solo, but in reality, you cant solo a dungeon. And its probably gonna be hard to find proper parties later in the game if you dont have taunt to steal the AGRO.
Aggro works for everyone with damages (+500% with Provoke attr) + distance from mobs. Source.
So⌠being a DPS you probably got higher DEX instead of CON. In the event that you need to tank, youâd probably switch to one-hand & shield, right? But you have less CON so block would render useless. And so, instead, you decided not to and just trust your EVASION. Against magical opponents with magical attacks cannot be evaded, youâd be like a wet toilet paper.
Itâs the prob with high DEX builds, yes. Tbh I was afraid of it when I read that trashes in l190 mobs did pretty high magic damages, which is true, I got completely rekt when I was l190, but this was only due to level difference : trashes are l200, in a l190 requirement dungeon. When I dingâd l195+, I could finally pull whole rooms like in previous dungs.
So, yeah. Curious to see this with my own eyes. Got a stat reset pot in case I have to, or Iâll reroll a pure tank build for fun⌠Maybe.
Shields do not increase your threat generation. It just provides a bit pdef (which is a bad stat when youâre taking big hits according to damage taken calculation, see the PDF file in quoted as a source for threat generation above) + actual stats that the shield provides.
You need to do at least 1/6 the damage output of your mates to keep aggro, thanks to Provoke attribute.
+500% threat generation means that for 1 damage done, you âdealâ 6 threat points to all the targets you hit, while other need to deal at least 7 damage to get aggro on 'em. If you donât achieve to deal that damage, well⌠You are undergeared, or your build is meh, or you donât manage your skills properly, or you donât keep awareness of the fight. Or your dps completely outgears you but in this case, trashesâll get rekted before even making two steps.
Itâs really rare for me to loose aggro and when it happens, itâs always because I derped myself, never because my class / build sucks. When I donât pull properly for example or when I donât spread my damages well (Seism helps a lot for this in my case).
Iâve done my 3 dungs for today but Iâll record tomorrowâs dungeons if you want. Or if you donât believe it.
I know. My point is, if you dont have taunt, you cant properly set aggro with the mobs you pull. Those DPS would steal the aggro easily. Other than that, you probably couldnt pull as fast as one with taunt. Positioning of mobs is also important. these are things that should be taken into consideration with what you call âtanksâ
Thatâs right, I agree with this.
Iâve never told that Pelt1 was useless, I said that it helped a lot. But itâs not mandatory if your team is aware that you donât have taunt and/or you always keep some steps towards your party to body-pull properly or you have good aoes + good damage burst. :]
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Lharz, you seem to be missing the point. We cant dps jack crap compared to wizards and archers. Weâre forced to tank - all of us. And we can barely survive. Also, here is something to think about OBJECTIVELY. Doppel circle 2 - 2H Swords only. I have not researched Dragoon if some of their skills is 2H Spears only. Why woulf they make something like that for end game content? Think about it.
No one is whinning, we are all just struggling to fit in the role we are meant to be in. Tanking is a must? Thats the wrong answer⌠There are skills that has no meaning what-so-evet for tanking, like the Damage buffs⌠If what you say is true, Lharz, then Doppel and Dragoon are designed FOR WHAT PURPOSE? Answer that please. Circle 1 and 2 for Doppel to stand corrected.
Please think about the classes in general before you jump the gun - this goes for everyone - why were they designed in the first place? ⌠Are all classes bad? Are we forced to roll specific jobs while other classes like Archers, Wizards and Priests can be more flexible? ⌠Think âŚ
Everyone else, come over here to this thread:
heart the first post and voice your opinion.
Excuse my typos⌠Wrote from phone while I am at work.
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We cant dps jack crap compared to wizards and archers.
Donât really have anything to check to be sure for now until we finally have a dpsmeter addon ; waiting for this, I believe in what you said.
How much is the damage difference ? x2 ? x3 ? x10 ?
Iâm okay with x3, I might not be with x10. Depends on many things.
Weâre forced to tank - all of us.
Yes and because we are naturally tankier than other classes (except some wiz builds yeah, right, but they sacrifice some damages for this), we have to, imo. My opinion on this can be subjective because I actually like to tank, but yeah, I really do believe that, in case you donât have any swordman tankier than you in the group, you need to tank.
Doppel circle 2 - 2H Swords only. I have not researched Dragoon if some of their skills is 2H Spears only. Why woulf they make something like that for end game content? Think about it.
I donât get your point. You have a weapon swap attribute if needed. :o
No one is whinning, we are all just struggling to fit in the role we are meant to be in. Tanking is a must? Thats the wrong answerâŚ
Yeah⌠Imagine a Monk that does have Heal in itâs spell bar (or even not) but do not use it, at all. Not a really big deal with another priest in the team but if heâs the only one, itâs just a huge lose of group wise efficiency.
Same for swordies that refuse to fill a minimal tanking role.
There are skills that has no meaning what-so-evet for tanking, like the Damage buffsâŚ
Correct me if Iâm wrong but most damage buffs with defensive penalties are just physical def penalties not even noticiable at high levels (because of damage calculation, pdef reduces damage taken by a flat number and not by a % number, so the bigger hit you take, the less pdef reduces relative damage).
Damages buffs do not necessarily means âTUNNEL VISION ENGAGED BROSâ.
If what you say is true, Lharz, then Doppel and Dragoon are designed FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
For increasing damage potency, I guess. See above, skills / classes that increase your dps do not equal âyou have to focus on your dps onlyâ. Dunno, thatâs my vision.
Please think about the classes in general before you jump the gun - this goes for everyone - why were they designed in the first place? ⌠Are all classes bad? Are we forced to roll specific jobs while other classes like Archers, Wizards and Priests can be more flexible? ⌠Think âŚ
I donât know⌠We use to see many clone builds right now ; some are more efficient than others, same deal for all classes. I guess. 
Forgot to say : as a side note, CCâd monsters do 0 damages.
This is a solo situation. The auto-find party at dungeon posts. You do know, and it is a fact not only in this game but all the others as well, that dungeons and mobs would increase difficulty as you go further into the game. It will come to a point where you can no longer risk auto-finding parties considering there is a limited number of times you can enter dungeons per day. You need to socialize and talk to people who are searching. Searching for specific class, build and playstyle. Nobodyâs gonna wanna get that monk for the heals like nobodyâs gonna get a DPS to play as a tank.
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