I just want to know the exact explanation on how will you hold the aggro without a shield? You can’t even out-dps the real DPS of the party. So tell us your story of tanking while other mobs killing the squishy classes.
yeah, great job tanking with half of the mobs hitting your wizards, clerics and those squishy archers. It WONT work, you know WoW, then you should be quite familiar with AGRO. It wont be a problem if youre gonna go solo, but in reality, you cant solo a dungeon. And its probably gonna be hard to find proper parties later in the game if you dont have taunt to steal the AGRO.
Aggro works for everyone with damages (+500% with Provoke attr) + distance from mobs. Source.
So… being a DPS you probably got higher DEX instead of CON. In the event that you need to tank, you’d probably switch to one-hand & shield, right? But you have less CON so block would render useless. And so, instead, you decided not to and just trust your EVASION. Against magical opponents with magical attacks cannot be evaded, you’d be like a wet toilet paper.
It’s the prob with high DEX builds, yes. Tbh I was afraid of it when I read that trashes in l190 mobs did pretty high magic damages, which is true, I got completely rekt when I was l190, but this was only due to level difference : trashes are l200, in a l190 requirement dungeon. When I ding’d l195+, I could finally pull whole rooms like in previous dungs.
So, yeah. Curious to see this with my own eyes. Got a stat reset pot in case I have to, or I’ll reroll a pure tank build for fun… Maybe.
Shields do not increase your threat generation. It just provides a bit pdef (which is a bad stat when you’re taking big hits according to damage taken calculation, see the PDF file in quoted as a source for threat generation above) + actual stats that the shield provides.
You need to do at least 1/6 the damage output of your mates to keep aggro, thanks to Provoke attribute.
+500% threat generation means that for 1 damage done, you “deal” 6 threat points to all the targets you hit, while other need to deal at least 7 damage to get aggro on 'em. If you don’t achieve to deal that damage, well… You are undergeared, or your build is meh, or you don’t manage your skills properly, or you don’t keep awareness of the fight. Or your dps completely outgears you but in this case, trashes’ll get rekted before even making two steps.
It’s really rare for me to loose aggro and when it happens, it’s always because I derped myself, never because my class / build sucks. When I don’t pull properly for example or when I don’t spread my damages well (Seism helps a lot for this in my case).
I’ve done my 3 dungs for today but I’ll record tomorrow’s dungeons if you want. Or if you don’t believe it.
I know. My point is, if you dont have taunt, you cant properly set aggro with the mobs you pull. Those DPS would steal the aggro easily. Other than that, you probably couldnt pull as fast as one with taunt. Positioning of mobs is also important. these are things that should be taken into consideration with what you call “tanks”
That’s right, I agree with this.
I’ve never told that Pelt1 was useless, I said that it helped a lot. But it’s not mandatory if your team is aware that you don’t have taunt and/or you always keep some steps towards your party to body-pull properly or you have good aoes + good damage burst. :]
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Lharz, you seem to be missing the point. We cant dps jack crap compared to wizards and archers. We’re forced to tank - all of us. And we can barely survive. Also, here is something to think about OBJECTIVELY. Doppel circle 2 - 2H Swords only. I have not researched Dragoon if some of their skills is 2H Spears only. Why woulf they make something like that for end game content? Think about it.
No one is whinning, we are all just struggling to fit in the role we are meant to be in. Tanking is a must? Thats the wrong answer… There are skills that has no meaning what-so-evet for tanking, like the Damage buffs… If what you say is true, Lharz, then Doppel and Dragoon are designed FOR WHAT PURPOSE? Answer that please. Circle 1 and 2 for Doppel to stand corrected.
Please think about the classes in general before you jump the gun - this goes for everyone - why were they designed in the first place? … Are all classes bad? Are we forced to roll specific jobs while other classes like Archers, Wizards and Priests can be more flexible? … Think …
Everyone else, come over here to this thread:
heart the first post and voice your opinion.
Excuse my typos… Wrote from phone while I am at work.
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We cant dps jack crap compared to wizards and archers.
Don’t really have anything to check to be sure for now until we finally have a dpsmeter addon ; waiting for this, I believe in what you said.
How much is the damage difference ? x2 ? x3 ? x10 ?
I’m okay with x3, I might not be with x10. Depends on many things.
We’re forced to tank - all of us.
Yes and because we are naturally tankier than other classes (except some wiz builds yeah, right, but they sacrifice some damages for this), we have to, imo. My opinion on this can be subjective because I actually like to tank, but yeah, I really do believe that, in case you don’t have any swordman tankier than you in the group, you need to tank.
Doppel circle 2 - 2H Swords only. I have not researched Dragoon if some of their skills is 2H Spears only. Why woulf they make something like that for end game content? Think about it.
I don’t get your point. You have a weapon swap attribute if needed. :o
No one is whinning, we are all just struggling to fit in the role we are meant to be in. Tanking is a must? Thats the wrong answer…
Yeah… Imagine a Monk that does have Heal in it’s spell bar (or even not) but do not use it, at all. Not a really big deal with another priest in the team but if he’s the only one, it’s just a huge lose of group wise efficiency.
Same for swordies that refuse to fill a minimal tanking role.
There are skills that has no meaning what-so-evet for tanking, like the Damage buffs…
Correct me if I’m wrong but most damage buffs with defensive penalties are just physical def penalties not even noticiable at high levels (because of damage calculation, pdef reduces damage taken by a flat number and not by a % number, so the bigger hit you take, the less pdef reduces relative damage).
Damages buffs do not necessarily means “TUNNEL VISION ENGAGED BROS”. 
If what you say is true, Lharz, then Doppel and Dragoon are designed FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
For increasing damage potency, I guess. See above, skills / classes that increase your dps do not equal “you have to focus on your dps only”. Dunno, that’s my vision.
Please think about the classes in general before you jump the gun - this goes for everyone - why were they designed in the first place? … Are all classes bad? Are we forced to roll specific jobs while other classes like Archers, Wizards and Priests can be more flexible? … Think …
I don’t know… We use to see many clone builds right now ; some are more efficient than others, same deal for all classes. I guess. 
Forgot to say : as a side note, CC’d monsters do 0 damages.
This is a solo situation. The auto-find party at dungeon posts. You do know, and it is a fact not only in this game but all the others as well, that dungeons and mobs would increase difficulty as you go further into the game. It will come to a point where you can no longer risk auto-finding parties considering there is a limited number of times you can enter dungeons per day. You need to socialize and talk to people who are searching. Searching for specific class, build and playstyle. Nobody’s gonna wanna get that monk for the heals like nobody’s gonna get a DPS to play as a tank.
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It will come to a point where you can no longer risk auto-finding parties considering there is a limited number of times you can enter dungeons per day.
What is this point in your opinion ? 200 ? 217 ? 240 ? More ?
i dont know. probably when the game adds new content. Its not like 300 is the max level. But seriously, you dont get the point, people who feel that their damage is weak, that is cause they are. they rolled for Swordsman hoping to build a DPS not a TANK. Whats the point of having the freedom to build your own set of skills and your own distribution of stats when in the end you are only needed for one purpose? Damage does not scale well as the game progresses, this is the problem. we shouldnt just ACCEPT that swordies are built just to tank (and to repair, and buff).
And yes, i know, we can tank. but F* that. we DONT want to.
Although I’m only a lvl229 Fencer with a c1 Peltasta, I still find it sad when ppl are only recruiting swordies for SwashBuckling and only Archer/Wiz as Dpsers for (Example Evacuation grind lvl230+ and others above). This pretty much disregarded those swordies who chose the pure Dps route and never picked SB c1 Peltasta. Even a mage which goes for full Con build would still easily find themselves in these parties since they could still deal decent dmg and provide good amount of Aoes/CC. But this would not be applied to swordies unless they have atleast c1 peltasta just to pull aggro and be the meatshield. This means most of the swordies are just stuck being a tank since those who even went to play as a pure melee Dps would’nt even deal as close compared to Archers or Mages. Besides, most of the mobs above 200 can’t be knockdown by Swordies let alone stun that is only based on those who went for Restrain or Barbarian which are not even as effective compared to Mages.
It’s understandable that Archers are the highest Dpsers since most of their classes are mainly offensive unlike Mage which can either strive for Support or Dpser build. This should be applied to Swordies as well since we have classes which allows us to either go Tank or full Dps as well. Although like I said pure Dps swordie build wont even reach Archer’s level nor even on par. Imo if Swordies are mainly made to Tank then what’s the point of creating such class diversities? Its suppose to be flexible where everyone should be able to choose the class which they like and not suffer in terms of gameplay.
Therefore imo, Tank Swordies are not too bad, just need some buffs for them to Tank magical damages. Meanwhile Pure Dps Swordies should be buffed to the point where it does not affect the rest of the Dps Classes yet provide useful damage/cc to the parties.(Maybe reducing even more hp/def/eva in return for higher dmg? Just a crap example) This is to balance out the party demands that’s currently being “unbalance”.
(Just voicing out my opinions, no offence to anyone). Cheers 
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I’m a C3, Dragoon without Pelt… and am almost 270… Honestly you just got to, yourself, make the initiative of creating a group… it’s as simple as that. Don’t wait for people to pick you up just carry yourself and lead your group… it is true however that it’s not easy if you only rely on waiting to get invited…
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not everyone is suitable to lead. and not everyone is playing with friends. if it were that simple, nobody in this forum would ever try to voice out their opinion on the matter(that being the lack of damage when reaching 160-200+).
good one
may I ask what kind of bug do they have? I am planning to become one
Balancing all classes will probably never happen anyway.
Well I would like to direct you to the subforum:
Btw, his clones are in mess and I think many of his skills are not working as intended. Sometimes my character freezing after the 2nd kunai shot and so on.
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I guess that works as well, but I doubt there won’t be any picky leavers in the party and this isn’t a proper long term balance/solution to the main issue. 
My problem is some wizards are even tankier than swordsman while also dealing tons of damage. If Swordsman want to deal damage with survivability they have to invest in 3 stats, Str, Dex and Con, while wizards only need int and con, hence netting them more damage and surivability. A lot of other games have this same distribution yes, but not to the point that wizards are out tanking melees with a few con.
Im a corsair dragoon though so I dont have that. Im leaning towards helping in gvg rather than kill in straight up pvp