Less than 3000 players?

[Seiran]

Why not just use the total player count then? It’s 1.7mil. Pretty cool right? All those “players” will come back in two days when we get that long awaited awesome balance patch. Just like they all came back for the r9 patch a month ago, right?

Because we’re talking about active players that logs in for only few minutes to 1-2 hours max daily and that’s 40k ish. We’re not talking about people who quit the game long ago.

It’s clear what OP is talking about when he says “3k players” and “not in steam’s top 100 anymore”.

It’s not clear. He’s talking about CCU. If the game is lacking content currently and there’s only boring dailies to do, it’s expected people will be online less time per day and fall down on rank as people play less.

But still, it doesn’t change that the game has 40k unique players as of the 2 last weeks and been keeping the same similar numbers for quite some time for now.

And “Tree of Savior has 40k players” is true and doesn’t intentionally or unintentionally spread misinformation regarding the state of TOS.

That’s why Total Player Count and CCU are complementary to each other. If you talk about both you can pass the right information.

If you pick only Total Player Count you’re overestimating gameplay experience.
If you pick only CCU you’re underestimating gameplay experience.

You need both to pass the right information.

---

Also, quite important piece of information. ToS has a too easy leveling system so it’s natural for lower level dungeons to get empty queues fast after hype / new content weeks.

Not finding players in lower level dungeons doesn’t necessarily means those players quit. It can just means they’re now over level 300 in the “end-game chores”.

It’s a content problem and lack-of-new players problem. Getting levels higher than 300 doesn’t make you go out of the 40k unique players count.

Also, DG300, in Klaipeda at least, still almost instantly queues (<2-3min). I’m not sure about smaller servers but for more populated servers this is likely to be even faster.

But, now…

If you talk about CCU as Total Players and “heh, ToS has 3k players and can’t find dungeon queue” without any context, sorry, but you’re most likely just trolling and/or doom posting at this point (and not even playing the game) and ignoring what everyone else said.

---

If you feel bad about people correcting you when you try to underestimate and meme with numbers, just try to use correct ones and give context to what you’re talking about.

Why don’t you do that?

Oh wait, if you starting giving out context you can’t meme because you’ll contradict your own arguments because you know you’re overestimating the issues

P.S.: Population issues exists, they’re serious. Overestimating and memeing with them doesn’t help, unless you’re just a doom poster trying to drive people away or demotivate them.

[Memester]

not reading all this to be honest

[Seiran]

Just shows you’re here just to troll
Have a nice weekend :3

[TacioDaito]

Look, as much as anyone here, i highly dislike lack of content and frequent updates in this game. But going full doomsday prophet is BS.

This game is not dead, and will not be in the next years. Most of the people who plays this game dislikes a lot of the management decisions from IMC, but they love the game in it’s core, which is something that cannot be changed, unless IMC deleted the game.

This game is profitable for them, and there’s no reason why they would close it from day to night, unless they make a huge change in their staff and direction. So, instead of spawning doomsday stuff (not including the OP here), why you guys don’t create a meaningful thread to try to call attention from the staff about how pissed we are for waiting months for updates and why this needs to end once for all?

[Memester]

they love the game in it’s core

You like playing at 10fps, constantly dealing with glitches and bugs , desynchs and crashes. You like IMC’s retarded decisions in terms of game design, especially regarding RNG? You like mindless grind without any sense of goal, progression or challenge which only results in frustration?
I doubt it. What you like is how cute your character looks when you afk in an empty town.

They gave content last month: r9, challenge mode, raids and new items. So what’s wrong, why are we still complain? Ah yes, it’s because we didn’t get ALL the content. So the next patch we’ll be getting some more content, but it’ll never be enough because we’ll still be behind Korea. And so we’ll be continuously using this excuse of “lack of content” to justify the fact that the game is incapable of retaining players.

No matter what kind of content they add, nothing will change. So you’ll be getting your wiz renewal and then what? Then nothing. It’ll be just like last month. We’ll get a couple of people back and then they’ll leave a week later.

[Seiran]

You like playing at 10fps

Is the core game at 10 fps? What type of computer are you using?

constantly dealing with glitches and bugs

What type of glitches and bug do you see in the core game?

desynchs and crashes

Desyncs are a thing but do you mean channel crashes or “VGA” crashes?

VGA crashes and desyncs on CM/ET have known reasons most of time and will be fixed in future patch soon that fixes the AoE Def=0 mechanic.

You like IMC’s retarded decisions in terms of game design, especially regarding RNG?

The core game is fine. Decisions are applied in other parts of the game and yeah, they’re bad. But if we’re talking about core game you’re aiming very far with what you’re saying, aren’t you?

You like mindless grind without any sense of goal, progression or challenge which only results in frustration?

So, how is that related to core game instead of how the game was developed from that?

Running away from the core game topic again?

I doubt it. What you like is how cute your character looks when you afk in an empty town.

Oh look. Offensive statements!

They gave content last month: r9, challenge mode, raids and new items. So what’s wrong, why are we still complain? Ah yes, it’s because we didn’t get ALL the content.

So, how’s that related to core game again?

And so we’ll be continuously using this excuse of “lack of content” to justify the fact that the game is incapable of retaining players.

Oh. The game is retaining 40k pretty stably? Do you have any problems reading charts?

Check here:

Tree of Savior (English Ver.) -

Let me know if you need a drawing to explain if it’s too hard for you to understand.

[Mobaboy]

Let me know if you need a drawing to explain if it’s too hard for you to understand.

Damn, Lunar with the clap back.

[Seiran]

Then just don’t troll around, the forum is public c:

[Melon]

FPS certainly isn’t perfect, but 10 FPS is a gross exaggeration. The only place I continue to have issues with it is channel 1 Klaipeda.

Yet still people are so quick to call this a dead game, but I see plenty of people in town, shout, and the like. Even outside of my guild, I run into plenty of other players.

Games have lasted much longer on smaller populations. ToS is coming up on yet another anniversary, but for some reason the doomsayers still persist.

[Memester]

but 10 FPS is a gross exaggeration

Barely. I get down to 10 fps easily at world bosses. And I have a config from 2017.
In any case, a game such a ToS should never, ever run below 60 fps on a machine that can easily run anything from 2017 on high settings.
edit: running through klai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOdeT-WJii8
Now imagine the impression this kind of bs performance gives to new players.

You make it look like the issue is that the game is “dead”.
It’s not dead but it’s dying and IMC is simply incapable of improving the situation. If you are fine with that, then good for you.

[Seiran]

Barely. I get down to 10 fps easily at world bosses. And I have a config from 2017.

So your complaint is about FPS drop in world bosses?

Sorry again but that’s not the core game you were replying to the other guy.

Also, it is an exaggeration because you try to make it sound as if the entire game plays in 10 FPS.

---

In any case, a game such a ToS should never, ever run below 60 fps on a machine that can easily run anything from 2017 on high settings.

Everyone knows that. It’s a known issue even to the devs.

You make it look like the issue is that the game is “dead”.

It’s not dead but it’s dying and IMC is simply incapable of improving the situation. If you are fine with that, then good for you.

May you provide your sources and explanation why you think they’re incapable of improving the situation?

I’ll provide mine that they are capable:

1. They fixed a lot of bugs already.
2. They’re changing how some build works and how combat works.
3. They’re listening to players about PvP and PvE issues as well about overall gameplay and improving communication with players. There’s still a long, long, long way to go, but they’re improving.

Now, what about you? What are your arguments to say they’re incapable of improving the situation?

Are you a company owner? Are you a game dev or game designer? Are you a programmer? Have you ever tried to develop a 2D game? And a 3D one? Do you have any insight into IMC’s business situation?

Let me guess? No to all questions? Just a troll!

[Mobaboy]

You’re quick to assume. Have you tried to shift your perspective a little bit? I’m sure if they could communicate with us better, they would.

[Melon]

Barely. I get down to 10 fps easily at world bosses. And I have a config from 2017.

Then you must have a real piece of garbage for a computer. I usually don’t go to insults like that, but I have a laptop from 2016, not even advertised as a gaming model, and it runs consistently better than that. I complained about FPS in Klai, but that’s 29-30 FPS in channel 1 and 58-60 elsewhere. About the same at world bosses.

This is aside from the fact that they’ve already mentioned even after applying the optimization patch last year, towns and world bosses are instances they’re still working to improve the rates of.

Now imagine the impression this kind of bs performance gives to new players.

Most new players aren’t going to have an FPS as bad as yours. Have you tinkered with your settings at all?

You make it look like the issue is that the game is “dead”.

Yes, because the topic name is “less than 3000 players” and the body mentions a smaller population. It’s also a common point doomsayers try to make about the “death” of ToS. I think it’s natural to draw that conclusion.

[dintra7]

This game need GVG without lag and bug

[Goldie]

Well, what you quoted isn’t the “core game” though.
When people say they love the core game, they mean that they love the lore/story and the diversity of the classes and skills. I’m sure you understood what they meant, they obviously didn’t mean the optimization and things like that. Nobody in their right mind would think TOS does good in that aspect.

Ah yes, it’s because we didn’t get ALL the content. So the next patch we’ll be getting some more content, but it’ll never be enough because we’ll still be behind Korea. And so we’ll be continuously using this excuse of “lack of content” to justify the fact that the game is incapable of retaining players.

To be fair I don’t know any asian games that release the things as fast in their original version as in the other ones. Some other versions are even more behind than ours. It makes sense. It’s not like they can copy/paste everything to all the versions.
The problems are that they seem to lack employees (because on a few occasions they’ve said how they were planning on releasing the contents much faster but they fail to do so) and the fact they will talk about some “new things coming soon !” 4+ months ahead.
No matter what, we’ll see the kTOS patches and be impatient - but that’s for the forum members. If they make official announcements about “That will be coming !” so many months in advance, everybody will be less patient. I don’t think that’s the best strategy - but at the same time, contents come so slowly it makes sense they’ll want to show what’s coming so players can be excited. It’s a loop~

Anyway, the lack of content issue isn’t about adding countless raids and such. No matter what, raids, instances, etc., are kind of extra things. Eventually you can “clear” them. People talk about core contents. Like how games will make exploring more rewarding/interesting, how you’ll learn about the lore almost everywhere, how you have fun/interesting PvP events, how you have non-fighting contents, and such.
But it seems that they are working on those.

[Memester]

Then you must have a real piece of garbage for a computer.

My computer can run any recent game on max setting at constant 60 fps.
But it’s good for you that your laptop somehow can handle world bosses at comfortable 30 fps. Maybe it’s because WB nowadays don’t gather more than 5 players seeing how the game is not-dead.
I bet you had 30 fps at the whale event too right.

Now look at this exciting new “content” we’ll be getting soon.
https://youtu.be/PBMPBh00NQk?t=4269

12-21 fps.

I bet your laptop will have thrice that framerate. Which is good for you, again.

Also notice how nothing changed in terms of boring game mechanics. Still the same HP sponges you just spam skills at insanely low framerate where you can barely see what’s even going on with all the spell effects, damage numbers and nameplates.

Anyway, the lack of content issue isn’t about adding countless raids and such.

Yes. That’s what I would like to see too. I don’t think IMC is capable of producing anything enjoyable involving combat, be it PVE or PVP.
The only way for them to save ToS at this point would be focusing on purely casual, borderline roleplaying activities. Easy minigames, miniraids, casual guild activies, emotes, easily obtainable cosmetics and toy items, maybe housing, definitely guild hideout decorations and customisations. Basically, stuff which doesn’t involve playing the game. Because even simple events where you have to jump over platforms ended up in dramas.

[Seiran]

But it’s good for you that your laptop somehow can handle world bosses at comfortable 30 fps. Maybe it’s because WB nowadays don’t gather more 5 players seeing how the game is not-dead.

The problem isn’t “game being dead”. But how bad rewards are and how unbalanced classes are for demon lords.

There’s only a few good rewards that many people only goes to Marnox or farm the accessory set but it’s so niche that only a small part of people cares about it.

As for unbalanced classes, it stops being fun when you go to demon lords just to lose cubes right? That’s why most less geared players or players outside premade parties stopped going to world bosses.

---

So, let me ask again, are you saying that the game has low FPS at it’s core or at world bosses? Because you’re contradicting yourself.

First you said it’s low FPS on core game, now it’s only world bosses.

---

Now look at this exciting new “content” we’ll be getting soon.

https://youtu.be/PBMPBh00NQk?t=4269

12-21 fps.

Around same number of people you’d meet at demon lords currently.

So what about core game? Did you change the topic for good now?

---

Also notice how nothing changed in terms of boring game mechanics. Still the same HP sponges you just spam skills at insanely low framerate where you can barely see what’s even going on with all the spell effects, damage numbers and nameplates.

Oh, so the problem now is the boss AI and mechanics?

What happened to the rest of the game? Is the core game only about killing bosses?

Or do you forgot you were saying about the core game when complaining about these stuff?

---

Yes. That’s what I would like to see too. I don’t think IMC is capable of producing anything enjoyable involving combat, be it PVE or PVP.

Let me ask again:

May you provide your sources and explanation why you think they’re incapable of improving the situation?

I’ll provide mine that they are capable:

They fixed a lot of bugs already.
They’re changing how some build works and how combat works.
They’re listening to players about PvP and PvE issues as well about overall gameplay and improving communication with players. There’s still a long, long, long way to go, but they’re improving.
Now, what about you? What are your arguments to say they’re incapable of improving the situation?

Are you a company owner? Are you a game dev or game designer? Are you a programmer? Have you ever tried to develop a 2D game? And a 3D one? Do you have any insight into IMC’s business situation?

---

The only way for them to save ToS at this point would be focusing on purely casual, borderline roleplaying activities. Easy minigames, miniraids, casual guild activies, emotes, easily obtainable cosmetics and toy items, maybe housing, definitely guild hideout decorations and customisations. Basically, stuff which doesn’t involve playing the game. Because even simple events where you have to jump over platforms ended up in dramas.

The “only” makes you seem to be so sure of that, may you answer what I asked before then?

Then can you answer why is that the only way?

Also, may you cite what was the drama about the jumping platform event?

Seems I missed what was the drama about because I didn’t see it anywhere. Are you making things up again for the sake of trolling?

Are you going to ignore posts from people again because they asked you to explain your arguments?

[Melon]

30 FPS isn’t even that great its self. I’m just working with what I have because they’ve made a number of improvements this past year; so I have no reason to doubt them when they say they’re working on improving the frame rate for towns and bosses.

I would agree that on normal settings, it is hard to keep track on world bosses. Even at 30 FPS. That’s why I asked [and you ignored] about your game settings. Turning off things like other player damage, monster particle explosions, and vertical sync will drastically help your FPS in the mean time.

I don’t think IMC is capable of producing anything enjoyable involving combat, be it PVE or PVP.

The only way for them to save ToS at this point would be focusing on purely casual, borderline roleplaying activities.

Easy minigames, miniraids, casual guild activies, emotes, easily obtainable cosmetics and toy items, maybe housing, definitely guild hideout decorations and customisations. Basically, stuff which doesn’t involve playing the game.

I can’t believe I’ve read anyone who plays ToS say this, that is absolutely asinine. Almost like you think they should gut the game completely and make it a soul-less social app. I don’t think the combat aspects are nearly that bad, and if you think that last part is true then perhaps a break from ToS would be best until they have what you’re looking for.

[Memester]

your game settings

I only disable “other players damage” when I play normally. The game doesn’t look that great so I’m not going to disable spell effects and particles.
For WBs though, yeah, I switch to low mode with everything off because I have to, otherwise it’s just not playable, and I still get barely playable performance if the fight has 20+ people.

Almost like you think they should gut the game completely and make it a soul-less social app

That’s the only solution.
They don’t have the competence to design content and encounters and balance their game. They also lack skills to write a decent engine.
You say they work on improving performance, the thing is, there’s nothing to improve. The engine is just broken. It’s flawed, there’s nothing to optimise. It’s something broken at its core. Something badly designed.
It’s like having a car with square wheels. Like, “we are optimising the performance of our square-wheeled car just wait warmly”.
The hell are you talking about your damn car isn’t a car it has square wheels what are you optimising there.

The combat aspects are bad and they won’t improve. You can see it in the new guild raid video. Nothing changed. It’s just mindless skill spam. Same for challenge modes, you just stack yourself in a corner and spam skills without even being able to see what you are doing. ET was the same, except that it had even more retarded mechanics (AFK floors, floors where you have to A F K. A F K F L O O R S).

And yes, time has proven that anything involving combat tends to be boring garbage.

Also, what I mean by the “game in its core” is the basics of the game. Which means graphics and network engine, direction and focus (pve? pvp? casual? hardcore?), combat mechanics (pacing, low or high cooldowns? cc?), progression (questing? grinding? itemisation? RNG?)

[Seiran]

You say they work on improving performance, the thing is, there’s nothing to improve. The engine is just broken. It’s flawed, there’s nothing to optimise. It’s something broken at its core. Something badly designed.

It’s like having a car with square wheels. Like, “we are optimising the performance of our square-wheeled car just wait warmly”.

So, let me ask you:

If there’s nothing to improve and it’s broken design why was it improved since last years? Why do you have higher FPS compared to before?

Do you have any competence on programming skills? I guess nope, that explains why you are so blind cx

Can you improve your train of thoughts? I don’t think so, you don’t have competence for programming or thinking about game development. So you can’t understand how things can be improved