The point @Ersakoz and @LunarRabbit are making is the statement “Tree of Savior has less than 3000 players” is false, regardless of the reasons, and that people need to stop conflating CCU with total player count.
Intentionally or unintentionally spreading this misinformation hides valuable insight into the state of TOS that can be used to determine what the problems are, and why the CCU is what it is compared to total player count.
in god we trust, the rest is data
we just lack hardcore players 
We lack content.
TOS had a LOT of hardcore players. I mean people who barely slept and half ditched life to play. I mean people who decided not to sleep even if they had work/school just to play.
But eventually when you have “nothing” to do because everything is cleared and the base game is a bit empty (+ the bugs are eating all your patience and tolerance), then you quit.
ouh i tot hardcore player es people who love this game so much and dont care about anything happen inside.
Yes, yes.
And “Tree of Savior has 40k players” is true and doesn’t intentionally or unintentionally spread misinformation regarding the state of TOS.
It’s clear what OP is talking about when he says “3k players” and “not in steam’s top 100 anymore”.
Why not just use the total player count then? It’s 1.7mil. Pretty cool right? All those “players” will come back in two days when we get that long awaited awesome balance patch. Just like they all came back for the r9 patch a month ago, right?
Because we’re talking about active players that logs in for only few minutes to 1-2 hours max daily and that’s 40k ish. We’re not talking about people who quit the game long ago.
It’s not clear. He’s talking about CCU. If the game is lacking content currently and there’s only boring dailies to do, it’s expected people will be online less time per day and fall down on rank as people play less.
But still, it doesn’t change that the game has 40k unique players as of the 2 last weeks and been keeping the same similar numbers for quite some time for now.
That’s why Total Player Count and CCU are complementary to each other. If you talk about both you can pass the right information.
If you pick only Total Player Count you’re overestimating gameplay experience.
If you pick only CCU you’re underestimating gameplay experience.
You need both to pass the right information.
Also, quite important piece of information. ToS has a too easy leveling system so it’s natural for lower level dungeons to get empty queues fast after hype / new content weeks.
Not finding players in lower level dungeons doesn’t necessarily means those players quit. It can just means they’re now over level 300 in the “end-game chores”.
It’s a content problem and lack-of-new players problem. Getting levels higher than 300 doesn’t make you go out of the 40k unique players count.
Also, DG300, in Klaipeda at least, still almost instantly queues (<2-3min). I’m not sure about smaller servers but for more populated servers this is likely to be even faster.
But, now…
If you talk about CCU as Total Players and “heh, ToS has 3k players and can’t find dungeon queue” without any context, sorry, but you’re most likely just trolling and/or doom posting at this point (and not even playing the game) and ignoring what everyone else said.
If you feel bad about people correcting you when you try to underestimate and meme with numbers, just try to use correct ones and give context to what you’re talking about.
Why don’t you do that?
Oh wait, if you starting giving out context you can’t meme because you’ll contradict your own arguments because you know you’re overestimating the issues 
P.S.: Population issues exists, they’re serious. Overestimating and memeing with them doesn’t help, unless you’re just a doom poster trying to drive people away or demotivate them.
not reading all this to be honest
Just shows you’re here just to troll
Have a nice weekend :3
Look, as much as anyone here, i highly dislike lack of content and frequent updates in this game. But going full doomsday prophet is BS.
This game is not dead, and will not be in the next years. Most of the people who plays this game dislikes a lot of the management decisions from IMC, but they love the game in it’s core, which is something that cannot be changed, unless IMC deleted the game.
This game is profitable for them, and there’s no reason why they would close it from day to night, unless they make a huge change in their staff and direction. So, instead of spawning doomsday stuff (not including the OP here), why you guys don’t create a meaningful thread to try to call attention from the staff about how pissed we are for waiting months for updates and why this needs to end once for all?
they love the game in it’s core
You like playing at 10fps, constantly dealing with glitches and bugs , desynchs and crashes. You like IMC’s retarded decisions in terms of game design, especially regarding RNG? You like mindless grind without any sense of goal, progression or challenge which only results in frustration?
I doubt it. What you like is how cute your character looks when you afk in an empty town.
They gave content last month: r9, challenge mode, raids and new items. So what’s wrong, why are we still complain? Ah yes, it’s because we didn’t get ALL the content. So the next patch we’ll be getting some more content, but it’ll never be enough because we’ll still be behind Korea. And so we’ll be continuously using this excuse of “lack of content” to justify the fact that the game is incapable of retaining players.
No matter what kind of content they add, nothing will change. So you’ll be getting your wiz renewal and then what? Then nothing. It’ll be just like last month. We’ll get a couple of people back and then they’ll leave a week later.
Is the core game at 10 fps? What type of computer are you using?
What type of glitches and bug do you see in the core game?
Desyncs are a thing but do you mean channel crashes or “VGA” crashes?
VGA crashes and desyncs on CM/ET have known reasons most of time and will be fixed in future patch soon that fixes the AoE Def=0 mechanic.
The core game is fine. Decisions are applied in other parts of the game and yeah, they’re bad. But if we’re talking about core game you’re aiming very far with what you’re saying, aren’t you?
So, how is that related to core game instead of how the game was developed from that?
Running away from the core game topic again?
Oh look. Offensive statements!
So, how’s that related to core game again?
Oh. The game is retaining 40k pretty stably? Do you have any problems reading charts?
Check here:
Let me know if you need a drawing to explain if it’s too hard for you to understand.
Damn, Lunar with the clap back.
Then just don’t troll around, the forum is public c:
FPS certainly isn’t perfect, but 10 FPS is a gross exaggeration. The only place I continue to have issues with it is channel 1 Klaipeda.
Yet still people are so quick to call this a dead game, but I see plenty of people in town, shout, and the like. Even outside of my guild, I run into plenty of other players.
Games have lasted much longer on smaller populations. ToS is coming up on yet another anniversary, but for some reason the doomsayers still persist.
Barely. I get down to 10 fps easily at world bosses. And I have a config from 2017.
In any case, a game such a ToS should never, ever run below 60 fps on a machine that can easily run anything from 2017 on high settings.
edit: running through klai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOdeT-WJii8
Now imagine the impression this kind of bs performance gives to new players.
You make it look like the issue is that the game is “dead”.
It’s not dead but it’s dying and IMC is simply incapable of improving the situation. If you are fine with that, then good for you.
So your complaint is about FPS drop in world bosses?
Sorry again but that’s not the core game you were replying to the other guy.
Also, it is an exaggeration because you try to make it sound as if the entire game plays in 10 FPS.
Everyone knows that. It’s a known issue even to the devs.
May you provide your sources and explanation why you think they’re incapable of improving the situation?
I’ll provide mine that they are capable:
Now, what about you? What are your arguments to say they’re incapable of improving the situation?
Are you a company owner? Are you a game dev or game designer? Are you a programmer? Have you ever tried to develop a 2D game? And a 3D one? Do you have any insight into IMC’s business situation?
Let me guess? No to all questions? Just a troll!
You’re quick to assume. Have you tried to shift your perspective a little bit? I’m sure if they could communicate with us better, they would.
Then you must have a real piece of garbage for a computer. I usually don’t go to insults like that, but I have a laptop from 2016, not even advertised as a gaming model, and it runs consistently better than that. I complained about FPS in Klai, but that’s 29-30 FPS in channel 1 and 58-60 elsewhere. About the same at world bosses.
This is aside from the fact that they’ve already mentioned even after applying the optimization patch last year, towns and world bosses are instances they’re still working to improve the rates of.
Most new players aren’t going to have an FPS as bad as yours. Have you tinkered with your settings at all?
Yes, because the topic name is “less than 3000 players” and the body mentions a smaller population. It’s also a common point doomsayers try to make about the “death” of ToS. I think it’s natural to draw that conclusion.
This game need GVG without lag and bug
Well, what you quoted isn’t the “core game” though.
When people say they love the core game, they mean that they love the lore/story and the diversity of the classes and skills. I’m sure you understood what they meant, they obviously didn’t mean the optimization and things like that. Nobody in their right mind would think TOS does good in that aspect.
To be fair I don’t know any asian games that release the things as fast in their original version as in the other ones. Some other versions are even more behind than ours. It makes sense. It’s not like they can copy/paste everything to all the versions.
The problems are that they seem to lack employees (because on a few occasions they’ve said how they were planning on releasing the contents much faster but they fail to do so) and the fact they will talk about some “new things coming soon !” 4+ months ahead.
No matter what, we’ll see the kTOS patches and be impatient - but that’s for the forum members. If they make official announcements about “That will be coming !” so many months in advance, everybody will be less patient. I don’t think that’s the best strategy - but at the same time, contents come so slowly it makes sense they’ll want to show what’s coming so players can be excited. It’s a loop~
Anyway, the lack of content issue isn’t about adding countless raids and such. No matter what, raids, instances, etc., are kind of extra things. Eventually you can “clear” them. People talk about core contents. Like how games will make exploring more rewarding/interesting, how you’ll learn about the lore almost everywhere, how you have fun/interesting PvP events, how you have non-fighting contents, and such.
But it seems that they are working on those.