Tree of Savior Forum

Legit players BOT/EXPLOIT now too?

General Discussion
#55

Notice how the section after, for Release Candidate states:

This game will be in continue development for the next X years, with added functionality, features, and gameplay content…it cannot be considered a final product if the engine will be modified, content tweaked, added, REMOVED, etc…

A VERY RECENT example of a final product for RELEASE (In-box, in-stores, only DLC story addons in the future (with the exception of modding, which will use exposed functions): Grim Dawn . It is DONE. It left it’s CBT (Greenlight) and OBT and it’s just another game.

So, no, YOU catch up, I’ve been playing shitty “Closed” beta/“Open” beta games since AOL was still the top search engine. Just because they claim it’s a release doesn’t mean diddly.

And I already said there wasn’t going to be a wipe, with the stipulation that if there was that they would do it NOW and not LATER when more people were playing…learn to ■■■■■■■ read.

#56

pre-alpha: korea
alpha: korea
beta, closed: korea, international
beta, open: korea
–international open beta scrapped.
release: korea, international.

it’s not like developers are -required- to hold open beta, or even closed beta… or even do any testing at all (but good luck if you try that).
that entire wikipedia article is just a description of common practices among developers.
those are simply the common stages. it’s up to the developer, not you, to decide what their state of development or release is.

now as to whether they -should- have declared it as released or not, that is an entirely different topic, and up for much debate, but regardless of that debate, the game is declared released.

well no sh*t, it’s an MMO. if they don’t keep developing new stuff to do, then the players will finish it all, and most of them will get bored and leave.
what, are you gonna claim WoW and RO are still in beta, too?
even Ultima Online, the 20 year old grand-daddy of modern mmorpg, still gets updates and new development work.
you know what, you should go tell Square Enix that because you know so much and can link wikipedia articles, you’re declaring FF14 to still be in beta.

unless you’re referring to posts in some other thread, then no, in fact you said no such thing.
you said a wipe now would make newcomers feel like they started on a balanced playing field, and a wipe a month from now would be… vague chuckles.
neither of those suggest specifically that you think a wipe is or is not coming, although the comments relating to a wipe at this point seem to imply that you recommend it as a good idea.

#57

You can fight it all you want kid, there is a clear difference between a complete and fully released product and one that is “complete” except for the things that are still broken and need to be fixed because they missed them during the closed portion of the testing cycle, and only called a full release for the same of calling it one…

Next you’ll be calling Overwatch a released title when it’s purchasable…oh wait, it already is, and Blizzard is STILL calling it a Closed Beta…but I thought the moment you could purchase it is was a full release?

And as for Ultima and its content updates and freshening, is that code in it’s core being redone to prevent it from falling into disarray? To prevent it from being utterly exploited? NO IT’S NOT…it’s tweaks and addons. The game is done…anything else is to keep the marginal population on it’s servers, not to keep it from breaking/being broken…

#58

@treefosavior I have 1 very major problem with how you define macros and cheating…

have you ever asked yourself how a keyboard works? its all about input…
when i hit this key it brings up this “letter”… this “input” that your keyboard has said it should bring up… to you that is standard… and you accepted it as “OK”… but thats just a simple macro… thats it… just another macro script in the world of scripts.

this is why the grey area you think you see is actually much larger… input …
how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? how far can you go before you turn around? how far is too far? you just now found the rabbit hole… most gamers knew of the holes existence and stopped caring about legit play before y2k… gaming is and always will be about player vs player… its always about how can i acheive what i want at the pace i want to go at for my personal gains… im not playing vs bots… im playing vs all of you also playing… where do i feel comfortable standing? is it just the 2 hours i get per night? is it the 17 hours per day lord stanokav guy plays? is it worth giving up your friends texting you asking you to go out? is it worth your relationship with some vaj you get every few days who is a complete b to you otherwise? is it worth that A-C in chemistry? how do you rate this? and you think because you rate your experience a certain way other ppl hold that standard?

since the dawn the internet, every online game has tried to combat the cheating or combat the advantage that everyday players find… a whole lot of games find really dumb and really obscure ways of stopping it… a lot of games just live with it… a whole other group of games just act like it doesnt exist never acknoledge it and just have to keep updating and loving the game they are making with the problems they have… some games completely get rid of the fact that is still exists but you and I dont know about it and are unaware of it…

the hacking/botting will forever continue just as similar as ddos attacks are a constant reminder that the internet is a crazy world. this is where tos fails… they build their game with a certain set of coding abilities… because of how this game is built. the hacking wont stop… they literally will have to hire and pay people to ban and monitor hacking here completely because of what they build this game with (coding). That being said, I dont mind because I like how this game functions.

#59

as an archer since icbt myself. this is exactly what happen to me when im using joystick and kneeling shot.

here the proof, this is me playing with joystick (spinning left analog) while kneeling shot. exactly as in your video. note : glitchy moves.

1 Like
#60

if i went around trying to call Overwatch a “release” game, that would be the same as you going around calling ToS a “beta” game. my point was that it’s up to the company to decide/ declare what the state of release is.

like i also said, whether they -should- have declared it released is an entirely different topic. the community demanded it right away, without giving them the time to polish and tweak it, so the community got it, unpolished and untweaked.

#61

It looks like another case of “JAMMED Z” + “JAMMED ARROW” lol.

Read the Terms of Use. Anything that does not involve a 3rd party software is not botting. That’s an afk zombie that fits in the gray area. No grounds for ban.

#62

That the one part obviously that nobody can prove.

this is the problem with your report and this thread. you DONT even know if he is there or afk. what if hes getting ban without doing anything wrong?

Then again who plays like that while sitting in a computer chair looking at a screen.

as an autoattack build, this is what i do. 90% of my time doing this while grinding. your argument is invalid.

#63

…i run around and click the hell out of everything, after gathering up a bit of a crowd. it seems like just sitting still would be so much less effective?
then again, if you’re not actually required to be at the computer, it certainly frees up your time.

(i -know- spam-clicking doesn’t actually help me, but so many other games for so many years, it’s hard not to.)

i’m gonna go actually read that ToS for ToS.

#64

everyone have they own playstyle, buffing running shot then kneeling shot seems the best to me. i can do this all day long.

especially at low level map/low hp mobs, kneeling shot alone is enough.

#65

If that is not the same as botting, why are bots so hated?

I mean those players(the bots) are not manually playing right?

#66

there’s a difference in scale between taping your Z key down and walking away, hoping that mobs walk in front of you regularly…

vs a bot that can run all across the map, hunting mobs down, looting things, etc… even stealing rare spawns.

#67

I do understand what you are talking about, even though i dont think it really follows what we are talking about. Following your logic you can only go as far into the rabbit hole as the dev allow you too. Regardless of how you explain her/him being able to to do that, if they decide it look like foul play that person gets the punish, and everyone else moves on. Pretty much what you said about games dealing with it in different ways.

In other words i get what you are trying to say about how a keyboard, macros and other tech stuff work. Following that people with enough knowledge of computers will always make ways to work around the system.

My point is, how is that different from a 3 party ran bot (not the obv tech stuff). A gold-sellers bot is ran by a program that makes him basically go around in an area killing everything while there is no active operator(player).
A person using a scripted ran bot(toon), which can be ran w.o them physically touching the keyboard, you can drop a rock on the key for all we know, basically kills in an area everything while there is no active operator(player).

Now tell me how a logical person will punish one and not the other on bases that one is ran by a computer program, while the other is just ran by a rock.

#68

Dude you really see that as a copy of that persons actions, your slow timed attacks(i assume you are doing ur own version of the z-hold spam you are defending) cant compare to her/him speedy im crack movements.

#69

the difference is using some said script/program while being present, in some form or another and just being afk… hence the part where i said he may infact be present, just not manually pressing the keys himself. the automated features arent the problem, its just doing it while your afk. its very hard to catch someone botting if they respond to you… hackguards xfire gameguard whatever those anti hack programs are usually stop basic macro programs/features… but thats about it.

#70

That why i was saying, they should be punished on the grounds that there no way he is going to poop at his computer (lol, southpark). At the moment he gets up is gg. Obviously is up to the developers if they want to use that as their excuse to wipe the gray area all together, as the player has no way to prove he was actually there. I never bothered with the normal in place Z-botting, but archers classes should be an exception.

TLDR: In the same way there no way to prove he is afk, the person has no way to prove he wasnt. I would just dish out ban hammer, but is up to what the developers believe to be to much.

#71

that doesnt work… you can prove he is there by directly speaking with him

he doesnt have to respond to you… but if an imc is present and asks him to respond and he doesnt. well then hammers can be flying… until then there is nothing imc or you can do

#72

Not a bot in any case, just possibly an AFK farmer with either macro or joystick as someone pointed out. So you kinda of misused “report bot” function in this case. But I agree that AFK farming is almost as unfair as bots and should not be allowed. Though sadly it is allowed, so yea.

2 Likes
#73

How can i know if he is botting or using the z macro to afk-farm?
I dont think i misused the “report a bot” at all. As a player i have zero way of finding out the difference between a z-hold afk farmers and a bot. That is why this was a discussed topic before the “report a bot” was implemented. Players have no way to know who is just z-afking, even after all this discussion we are all assuming he is doing this or that. There no way to prove he is doing one or the other.

How im i proving anything by speaking to him? If the person answers he is not afk-farming. If he doesn’t which i agree the person does not have to, i will just assume him to be a bot. Is not like players are out to test other players behavior and decided which one fall on the gray area and which one doesn’t. At that point like you said is up to IMC to check the cases.

@Sushifox the above is why a normal player cant never know if someone is a bot or z-bot, and they will all be reported. I can always fall back on the fact that to me he looks like a bot and no one cant dispute it since is my observation.

#74

reports and bans are different stories all together.

you can prove he is not a by speaking with him. if he responds. he is just a little macro fucker. if he is a bot he wont respond to you… if he is afk while doing his little pos macro crap… then its banworthy… he doesnt have to respond to you!. YOU! not imc… YOU… you are not the authority… he has to respond to imc or he is banned… he can ignore you to his hearts content… because you dont matter at all