Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v5.0

General Discussion
#1827

RNG isn’t a bad element on its own, the way it is used that is the real problem. I won’t get into the archstone discussion because i don’t know enough about it (nor want to search about it right now…).

The classic way to use RNG tied to rewards is direct drop, in this method you (often) can have the information about which item drops from which enemy/map at the specific percentage, if you want X you need to do Y for about Z times (without limited amount of tries depending on the game) - completely straight forward.

Vaivora drops almost work like that, but are semi locked behind a limited content (yes, with some options to bypass it) and have an obscure drop rate, and these are the aspects that make the RNG feel worse. You can’t have an idea of how likely is to get a Vaivora equipment over each try, nor if it interacts with things like looting chance, nor if the chance is increased whenever they add new Vaivora equipment (which requires dev/staff confirmation due the low numbers). Even if you do get a Vaivora you don’t have control over what you get, great if you get what you want of something that is valuable, terrible when you get stuff that is at the bottom end.

Of course, there is the option to buy them from a lucky player but you still need that lucky player to exist and be willing to sell it, which may just not happen because the structure isn’t reliable. In the end, the best ‘strategy’ is to keep spamming a boring content to get money for direct purchase and pray to get something meanwhile, and you can’t just ignore it cause the game “difficulty” is adjusted towards the high end of equipment progression.

Vaivora RNG fails because it is (indirectly) attached to a content that isn’t fun and is unreliable at all ways it can be.

The worst part about all of this is that MMOs aren’t about getting rewards, they’re about choosing how you engage with the game (at you own pace and will), yet IMC keeps doing things that force you onto a straight path to be able to have fun, as they abandoned everything that isn’t within it.

4 Likes
#1828

Yes, Vaivoras are rare drops, but it’s actually a bit common for something that’s BiS tier.

I get it, you want to loot it yourself. But that’s not how mmorpgs (especially korean-made) work. In Tels, if you take time to notice the announcements, Vaivora drops can reach up to 20+ drops on a busy day.

The issue with Vaivora is that there’s an incredible popularity disparity among classes. Even powerful Vaivoras like Rapier - Leventador and Spear - Rete Shooter are being sold as low as 50M, while other popular Vaivoras may cost 800M - 1B. There are 10 pages or more of Vaivora in Tels market at any given time.

#1829

imc trolling trinket 50m before patch now become 1b

2 Likes
#1830

+1 to this… basically how imbalanced the market is.

#1831

Thats the very reason they added the fuse 3 vvr and gamble RNG in the later patches . Although it is still layered behind an RNG, it retains the value of the in-demand ones.

I am more against the idea of IMC locking class balance behind a piece equipment. With the same meager rates and larger vvr pool, getting a vvr of choice seems rather overwhelming over time.

That’s not true, you missed Boruta drama on release, its literally that all over the forums. Also the main reason why seal price drop is because access to magic stones were no longer RNG-gated behind amiss dog.

Instead, you have guaranteed stones behind WBR now, as well as the merc badge/medal exchange. This thus led to more people being able to afford the seal gamble. With that said, more people succeed +3 over time, and the demand for seals diminished over time. Seals sank to a low 50m at some point, but because of individuals crafting + 5, they literally wiped the entire shelf off and caused some temporary supply shortage. It is still now heading to a price decline, but not at Tels’ record lowest.

:thinking:

#1832

You seem to be ignoring the worse part on purpose.
As the only “repeatable” source of archstones outside of the limited weeklies is Goddess’ Grace, it creates a vicious circle - and the ones providing the money to do so to the rich people are those same ones that are trying to get archstones to be able to compete.
Meanwhile, since they get most of their silvers back, they can spend even more on the lottery. And doing so gives them better chances at archstones, with comparatively reduced costs since they get a significant part of the silvers back.

Funny how you mention Boruta Seals though. Cause their last changes only made things worse…on Fedimian nobody but a couple guilds can do Boruta anymore, and only the GTW one is worth the time spent, so the prices increased. And the seal fragments are a sham anyway, since the chance of getting them is so awful that i may as well just buy the normal ones even at the increased prices.
The guild Boruta already had meager rewards compared to the GTW one, now it takes so much time and people that it wouldn’t even be worth the time spent.
So they essentially ended up removing the ones small guilds could get via their efforts just to put luck-based ones at extremely low chances. Such an improvement, huh.

3 Likes
#1833

You missed the essential part of this discussion, which is the state of archstone/fragments in ktos/future patch. They made archstone fragments less rare. Also, if you look at most people complaining not getting Archstones, it’s mostly those people that can afford gambling 50-100M in one go but then got nothing. If you are something who don’t want to gamble or can’t afford, you will still have a free chance to get one with your weeklies and you don’t even have to do anything special. It seems these complaints come from people that are already quite at the top 10% and are too frustrated with catching up with the top 1%.

It’s not the developer’s fault that the server is dead. The new Boruta gives more rewards than before. Boruta got buffed but a guild of 20-30 member should be able to clear it without a problem. Heck, half of my guildmates are only moderately geared(not optimal ichors) and we are doing 30% per round. Before the patch, if you’re not a territory holder, you get scraps for killing Boruta. Now we can give out 2-3 seals to members every week.

So what exactly is stopping these small guilds from just merging? If you don’t have enough players to do guild content, what’s the point?

1 Like
#1835

No, it’s just that it’s completely meaningless. “Less rare” means nothing as long as it’s still limited chances per week with nothing to compensate for strings of bad luck.
And ultimately, gambling with Goddess’ Grace is the only thing you can do for most of the useful things. Needs pages? Gamble or buy. Needs blessed shards? The biggest source is still gambling (and we did have a good source of BG in the mercenary shop…but devs decided to remove it). And i see you still deliberately ignored the “vicious circle” issue, oh well.

It is definitely the developer’s fault if people aren’t compelled to keep playing.
That said, the new Boruta gives more rewards only in theory.
If you aren’t a territory holders you still get scraps, except they require much more people and time than before, enough to make the effort meaningless. Before we could do a boruta with less than 10 well-equipped people in less than 30 minutes, now we would need several hours and several tens of people…for an added seal and bunch of pouches,
Considering the increased time and people requirements, all of which must taken in account once the rewards must be split, In which way can this be presented as an improvement? It’s significantly worse than before on every metric. It’s so bad that it’s more convenient for those people to just use that time to farm silvers and buy the seal instead, despite the increased price, rather than doing the actual content. Such an improvement, indeed.

Not being fans of PvP contents? Language issues? There may be several reasons for people to stay in closely-knit groups.
And talking about “not having enough players for the content” doesn’t really make sense…since it was perfectly feasible before.
Even if those people were to disband and go elsewhere, they would rather choose larger guilds for the GTW Boruta - if you have to spend hours, at least you end up with a good reward instead.
It only promoves further the “winning team joiner” behaviour, basically.

2 Likes
#1836

lots of players like to join smaller and more closely knit guilds for a more comfier experience.
There are also irl friends that like to play together within their own private guilds too.

Not every guild has to be a “big” guild. There must always be small / medium / large guild types in almost all mmos with a guild system

4 Likes
#1837

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Going by how IMC is balancing classes in the order they listed the classes in …

I don’t know why Monk is dead last in that list but … IMC, please hurry up with Fencer, Matador and Cryomancer, and move on to Chaplain and (especially) Monk already.

2 Likes
#1838

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2 Likes
#1839

9/3 kLive patch deployed.

Changes I notice:

Hunting Ground Reward Changes

-Equipment rewards from Madon Maiden, Amiss Dog, and Misrus cubes will drop as fully crafted items instead of recipes. The items obtainable via Misrus Spirit Fragments are also crafted and are no longer recipes.

※ This does not apply to Misrus Chains.

-Boruta Seals and Archstone Fragments have been removed from Misrus rewards.

-Tel Harsha stage 2, 4, and 6 got a 50% chance to drop 1 additional garment.

Healer Assister Changes

In Challenge Mode (1 player) and Tel Harsha Raid (difficulty 4 and lower only), using the Cleric “Heal” skill on an assister will provide them a buff.

Buff effects
-Increased Attack stats equal to [Caster’s Healing stat X buff stacks X 0.3)
-Reduced damage taken equal to [buff stacks X 15%]
-Max stacks: 5
-Buff duration: 15 seconds
-When buff duration ends, the assister loses 1 stack.
-If the number of stacks reaches 5, it is boosted to a 30 second duration, and all of the stacks will be removed when the duration ends.

Luciferi Changes

I didn’t do a full diff, but these are the changes I notice.

Luciferi Isgarinti
-Changed from King’s Dignity to Strengthen Subordinate.
-The damage ratio from the effect now scales with necklace and bracelet, being +25%[N]/+12.5%[B]. This also goes for Karaliene and Incomplete Karaliene.
-Dragon strength effect bonus changed. Now provides +1 second duration (down from 2 seconds), and increases the number of targets hit by 1 (changed from -2 seconds to cooldown).

Luciferi Kantribe
-Solid Skin defense scaling increased to +0.025%[N]/+0.0125%[B] (old was +0.01%[N]/+0.005%[B]).
-Rusted Weapon now decreases enemy Critical Rate by your Critical Resistance stat (was caster’s Critical Rate stat before).
-Rusted Weapon effect duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 3 seconds).
-Dragon Strength effect no longer boosts Rusted Weapon duration.

Luciferi Pyktis
-Effect changed completely.

Provides the [Frenzy] buff when performing a counterattack, with a +5[N]/+2.5[B] second duration.

[Frenzy]
-Triggers an additional hit when attacking.
-The additional hit deals damage equal to +2500%[N]/+1250%[B] Skill Factor.
-The additional hit has a cooldown of 5 seconds, reduced by -2[N]/-1[B] seconds.

Dragon Strength Level 2 [Can only be activated with the full set]
-Increases the Skill Factor of Frenzy’s additional hit by 1.3x (+3250%[N]/+1625%[B]).

Luciferi Trukas
-Accessory stats adjusted.

Necklace
INT ▲135 (down from 149)
CON ▲53
Critical Rate ▲330
Magic Critical Attack ▲1870 (down from 1980)
Attack against Medium-sized Targets ▲1500 (new)

Bracelet
INT▲90 (down from 99)
CON ▲31
Critical Rate ▲165
Magic Critical Attack ▲990
Attack against Medium-sized Targets ▲500 (new)

-Overlord - Elemental changed to Force Wave.
-Force Wave’s Skill Factor decreased to +3000%[N]/+1500%[B] (down from +4500%[N]/+2250%[B]). Overlord - Elemental was a different kind of skill that only ever hit 2 times in an AoE, while Force Wave can hit 3+ times.
-Movement speed reduction from Force Wave - Elemental Conflict decreased to -10[N]/-5[B] (down from -15[N]/-7.5[B]).
-Dragon Strength bonus decreased to 1.3x (down from 1.4x).

Luciferi Prideti
-Now triggers on every 40th attack (up from 38th attack).
-Now reduces number of attacks to trigger by -12[N]/-6[B] (up from -10[N]/-5[B]).
-Dragon Strength bonus no longer decreases attack count requirement by 3.

Vaivora Changes

Psychokino [Staff]
-Stats changed.

INT ▲195
Critical Rate ▲744
Psychokinesis Magic Attack ▲1488 (down from 2262)

8 Likes
#1840

Oooh k-live :o please imc announce ktest and bring sadhu/chaplain changes :sob::sob::sob:

1 Like
#1841

kino staff nerf already lol :upside_down_face:

#1842

What do you mean nerf, it got +4 crit rate! Absolutely gamechanging.

#1843

Looks like I was wrong on the critical rate on the Psychokino staff, it was always 744. The Magic Attack nerf is true though.

I adjusted the post.

#1844

Obviously, you just want IMC to give handouts. 2-3 seals and over a dozen pouches for non-territory holders and you still want more. Talk about being entitled.

Also do you expect IMC to adjust specifically to your server’s low population?

Yah sure, that’s why other servers are ghost town too right?

My point is, why expect to do contents that are obviously designed for medium/large guilds if you want to stay on a small comfy guild? There are still other guild quests they can do.

Also if you have like 10-15 highly geared people, it is possible to complete Boruta over the course of the week. If your members are not well-geared and you want to stay on a small guild, it is not the game’s fault you can’t do Boruta.

My guild lack healer mains(those that have experience supporting in difficult raids) so we even rarely do Legend Lepi Normal. In Tels, public Lepi parties are rarer than Archstones. Should I also blame the system for that?

And what’s the bullshit about taking too much time to kill Boruta? Is 30mins per day really too much to ask for players that claim to like “closely knit guilds”?

#1845

God please remove force wave and bring overlord the directional wave facing xhar direction is the hottest garbage they released for a long time. Not friendly at all with moving and dodging

#1846

Having rewards being not worse than before isn’t being entitled.
And you mention territory holders, but while their boruta stats are higher, the rewards are more than 10 times higher as well. And indeed, that’s remeunerative. The guild one, well, no, it’s a waste of time.

It’s not like the game population is growing either, if you haven’t noticed.

For a couple seals and some pouches? Yes, definitely. Did you even ever bother doing some math of how much can those people earn by spending that time in other ways instead of dealing with boruta and how many seals and blessed gems could have bought directly instead? There is a thing called opportunity costs, you know.

2 Likes
#1847

Previous Boruta give you 0-1 Seal with a few pouches. New one gives you 3x more rewards and it’s a lot easier to kill than the GTW Boruta.

MMORPG genre is on a decline in general. Even newly release games face issues with playerbase after initial hype.

If you’re so bothered about time efficiency that you need to calculate the things you can do in 30 minutes per day, then why not join a bigger guild? You’re not making any sense. People that join small guilds obviously do not take efficiency into account, else they will join more established guilds for better benefits.

Also, the initial point of guild activities is to have something that the guild will do together. I remember when we had more active guild councils/organizers on my guild, we even do guild quests regularly even though the rewards are not so great(except for occasional rare drops). These quests take like 3-5 minutes but making sure everyone’s online and properly instructed(especially newbies) can take an extra 10-15 minutes. Despite that, we still do it, because it is essential to create guild bond. If you think about it, our leaders could’ve just spammed the quest by themselves for efficiency(to get hamster egg, panto, etc)