Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v4.0

I’m not even sure what monks and sadhus are supposed to be anymore.

It seems like they want to force them into a new niche (Monk - AA and combos) (Sadhu - something with particles I suppose) and see if it sticks, since they’re not happy with what the original class idea was anymore.

As I understood, they removed the extra portion that soul property skills (a.k.a only sadhu skills) receive. Now reading it again, they might have only removed the extra soul damage you receive. I hope they did this, otherwise they indirectly nerfed only Sadhu damaging skills.

I can’t say anything about Monk (besides other complaints) cause I don’t play with this particular class.

But, about the Sadhu part: they will never be able to make Spirit AA viable if they don’t treat it as a regular AA, capable of receiving all sort of buffs, attack speed and, even with that, they will be not good compared to other auto attackers because 1) melee auto attack is ‘viable’ for bosses, Ranged (namely pistol classes that can auto attack properly) will always be overall better at it 2) you can’t compete the Sadhu auto attack with other damage options. How this could be viable (outside personal choice) alongside things like Rubric and Ripper? (This point might be the same for Monk too)

At this point, as a Sadhu player, I would rather having generic damage skills of soul property than seeing devs insisting on making spirit auto attack / stance a thing

Thats a very nice move.

Daino increase minimum crit chance 15% at level 10

Prana increase magical critical chance another 15% at level 5. And no longer receive additional psyko-property damage.

wow… Crit-magic cleric ? Look interesting.

It was able to do so, when Re:Build was launched on kTOS. When it came to iTOS, it was not working and, now that I see new videos, apparently it is not working there too.

All the inclination for Krivis towards Magic Damage makes me wonder what in the world was IMC thinking when they made Divine Stigma and Energy Blast synergy a thing.

I rather have increased skill factor over the synergy, heck just remove the Holy Property so it doesn’t get balanced with Deploy Capella. Before this, Energy Blast does worse damage than Auto-Attacking, and Double Punch buff just made that gap much worse (made Double Punch stronger, if not as strong as using Energy Blast and Divine Stigma at the same time). Energy Blast needs that raw power much more than that Holy Property right now.

IMC clearly trying to make Monks go the Auto-Attack route, now every Monk will have to set a world tree idol and table every time they want to Energy Blast or Double Punch with Aspergillium. Double Punch buff simply made Auto-Attacks a better DPS method than other Monk skills, and moving forward, Monk Chaplain will be the way to go for Monks.

We back where we started before Re:Build, only spamming Double Punch with the occasional God Finger Flick for DPS. IMC Balancing :crazy_face:

In the current Ktest patch they removed the knockback-knockdown immunity from Hacka Pelle skill and now it only decreases the cooldown of other Hackapell skills, bleh~

Well, they could at least increase the skill factor and CD time so they match.
E.g. Energy Blast 60 seconds CD, 4x the SFR of Rubric (so about 42000%).
Then it would make sense to bundle Monk with Chaplain.

What interests me is how Monk and Sadhu work together now. With both Monk and Sadhu featuring over 300% SFR per autoattack (Double Punch and OOB autoattack), spamming autoattacks could become a viable mean of dealing damage, especially if combined with Chaplain for more damage lines and base Aspd, while Sadhu provides damage reduction and evasion boost.

If I’m not wrong, OoB is not affected by Attack Speed but I may be wrong. If this was pre-Re:Build, yeah OoB Auto-Attack and Double Punch can be used together, but since both are now tied to the Auto-Attack button, only OoB Auto-Attack will happen. Also remembered that its troublesome to buff going into OoB state or something, I forgot.

Talking about Sadhu Monk in 2019 though, old memes coming alive.

I know, I was talking about the Monk side that benefits from Chaplain buffs.

If that’s true then it’s quite sad. To make OOB viable the skill needs to work together with Double Punch and/or the Chaplain buffs, otherwise it’s three Classes featuring autoattack buffs that don’t work together.

Judging from Scout changes over time to make Schwarzer Reiter, Enchanter and Bullet Marker somewhat work together now, it would be strange to not have something similar for Chaplain, Monk and Sadhu in the future.

I know they recently reworked chaplain but it needs a buff to how Visible Talent works, right now God Smash hits for dmg cap also and you can use that 3 times on a 15 second CD.

At this rate they will need to rework the core aspect of how cleric gets its magic dmg from weapons. Probably an attribute that allows you to have 90% of your physical damage as magic damage but remove magic damage from maces.

edit. other thoughts on the patch

With the upcoming changes to krivis this can solidify the auto attack build for sadhu but they need to tweak a few skills in some way for further synergy. Diano needs to have full duration or make it last 5 min. The cooldown of Melstis should synergise with Prana allowing to have full uptime of Prana.

But at the same time forcing Druid upon every dps cleric build is bad for the game and they need to make something that has an equivalent amount of power as Lycanthropy.

Monks combos are basically only there for CC.
Palm strike + Hand Knife is Knockdown
1 inch punch is silence.
Energy Blast is knockdown/back.
None of them were really good for DPS in rebuild anyways but their CC is…slightly servicable.

If anything at this point I think Monks utility could be improved.
Iron Skin is still mediocre and I would like for energy Blasts Charge time to be significantly reduced.

As for AA, going Paladin gets you some extra aoe ratio, if not going Inquisitor, and Krivis kinda has its own benefits as well with Zaicai and Daino.

TBH I think they could put some forced synergies like this

Golden Bell Shield - Increased Duration while under Statue of Zemyna.
Meltis - Cooldown reduced by 30s when under Golden Bell Shield.
Iron Skin - Reflect 200% of damage mitigated while under Stoneskin.

Pain barrier uptime 100% pve anyway.

Hackapelle buff level 10 reduced 15s, so non stop storm bolt and grind cutter. Back to sp hunger class but will see how it fare.

Yeah, Monk, a DPS red class, is only there for CC. Might as well re-brand the class as a Support green class. Even then, its utility isn’t really that great either.

  • Palm Strike + Hand Knife requires high DEX to even land Hand Knife quick enough at running enemies.

  • One-Inch Punch usually gets resisted half the time even on non-PD enemies.

  • Energy Blast requires maxing it to even be able to charge and fire lvl 1 in 0.5 seconds, adding only 1 point makes it require 5s to even charge lvl 1, too huge of an investment just for its knockdown/knockback.

  • Iron Skin benefits are too unnoticeable to even care about even at max.

  • Golden Bell Shield is useless, give back pre-Re:Build Golden Bell Shield.

Even in the sense of CC, Monk skills are only half-decent as CC compared to what other classes have to offer.

TBH I’m not interested in forced synergies at all and prefer IMC to not let Monks touch them. So far, none of these forced synergies have proven to be useful other than to a small extent in the Wizard Tree. Forced synergies so far have only shown to be makeshift band-aid fixes, just forcing classes with no synergy otherwise to go together, but not fix the main problem of the classes and skills themselves. Those synergies also usually end up with one class/skill from the synergy being balanced down to miserable status to rebalance the forced synergy (or sometimes not even balanced as both skills and/or its effects are redundant to begin with), and those forced synergies have so far proven to be mostly useless/redundant to be even worth it.

For example, for Divine Stigma and Energy Blast, the forced synergy forces Energy Blast to be balanced down in terms of damage, causing it to be in its pathetic state of doing less DPS than Auto-Attacking. These two skills don’t even really work that well together (Divine Stigma duration is 15 seconds, and one spends 11s of that on Energy Blast alone). Krivis doesn’t need Monk, but in terms of Energy Blast, Monk needs Krivis to be even remotely decent. Energy Blast is already a Holy skill, so IMC will already balance it against Deploy Capella (+160%), and the forced synergy just killed the skill much more with how strong it potentially is. Other than Divine Stigma and Energy Blast, Monk and Krivis don’t have much to work together with (Monk is physical, Krivis is magic, also how their skill sets are different).

More synergies will eventually makes the skills themselves weaker unless the synergies are even worth using, and forced synergies forcing players to take specific classes that usually aren’t even the best match together, not only weaken specific skills, but screws up the whole Class Build for one forced synergy that will be redundant due to crap implementation, or will be forced to take from then on. The presence of such synergies will be a curse to said classes, where every time IMC tries to balance stuff, they also take into account those forced synergies and balance everything down more accordingly.

So far, nothing much has come out of forced synergies, and I rather they fix or even rework the classes themselves instead of looking to see if some fancy, unpractical, random synergies can be made with 2 unrelated classes to make synergies that will ultimately nerf the two classes further in exchange for tying those classes together due to the synergy being the only way IMC dictates for the classes to go forward.

1 Like

They shouldn’t work together, Monk suppose to be physical AA class, Sadhu magical AA class and Chaplain is mix which can work with both “sides”. At least on “paper”/in IMC mind.

Cleric is the hybrid tree,though, and a lot of physical & magic Classes work well together, even if it’s just in one direction or indirect.

E.g. Inquisitor allows you to turn monsters into demons and boost holy property damage by 10% with Judgement, which is obviously helpful for Exorcists Rubric & Katadikazo.
Inquisitors Pear of Anguish also count as allies for Gregorate, so by throwing one OH at the enemy, Gregorate will always deal 5 hits.

Druid boosts physical attack and crit rate on Lycanthropy, and has physical crit damage boost on Sterea Troph, despite being completely magic-based.

Same goes ± for Krivis, which also boosts Accuracy (very important for physical skills, since they usually hit only very few times) and physical crit attack.
Aukuras also improves physical attack damage with additional fire property.

And the general buffs are useful for all Clerics, be it physical or magic-based (e.g. Oracle/Kabbalist/Diev/Paladin/Chaplain). With the changes, they are probably going to expand this and make certain Classes more interesting for specific builds.

And since as a physical Class you’re forced to use mace, which has magic attack on it in exchange for being exactly one level cap value of same-tier gear below the specified weaponry (i.e. for legendary items a level 400 mace has ± the same attack value as a level 360 sword and same magic attack value as a 360 rod) it’s not so unreasonable to go hybrid.

Yes, you lose a lot of base stats (INT/SPR/DEX/STR) and thus quite a bit basic crit attack and attack, but in exchange you can deal with the primary enemy races out there, demon and brute (which each have a strong defense against magic/physical attacks and are weak against the opposite attack type).
It also makes playing more enjoyable since you get skills for both the close range, far range, single target and multi-target AoE.

On Monk it’s very useful if combined with Sadhu, as you can combine OOB with Iron Skin for ± 40% physical damage decrease, evasion rate increase & knockdown/knockback protection (which Monk lacks). If you can use Double Punch with the body and OOB attacks simultaneously, there is the possibility to attack the enemy from both sides.
Monk also has knockback CC, which can be used to knock enemies away from your body and into the attack range of your spiritual body, which is great to use.

And Sadhu has a %-based recovery on Prakriti, which is very useful for Monk as you’ll probably have a low amount of Healing stat anyway, making the new Heal pretty bad, unless you’re also oracle that can provide a 20 second time frame with Arcane Energy to spam all your Heals until SP is empty and refill the pool again every minute.

I’ve tried Sadhu Monk since a long time ago, and its simply a bit tedious and impractical to do. Here’s an example of an old video doing that.

Iron Skin having no enhance attribute and 7.5% at max is too unnoticeable to be of any benefit for 15 points. While it sounds good in theory, in practice its simply much more trouble since OoB roots you in place and having to OoB every time before a fight (or set-up Sadhu skills) feels irritating for a close-range class like Monk. Monk only has Energy Blast as knockback CC, and that is one horrible knockback skill with a charge time. OoB also bugs Energy Blast out, making it not a good skill to use while under OoB. On top of that, Monk and Sadhu skills are generally low cooldown skills, Monk having loads of overheats and one channel skill and Sadhu having one channel skill and loads of set-up skills as of Re:Build, its a mess in the making. Furthermore, there is no reason for Monk to be in a Sadhu build or anything that each other could benefit from, and vice versa, unlike the old days where there was at least something with OoB that Double Punch could use.

If IMC can somehow rework OoB to be able to Auto-Attack while allowing Double Punch, and make OoB not root but maybe walk with the player instead and use skills (kinda like Bunshin), that’ll be a start. An example I guess:

Sadhu can go with a spirit that has its own skill set and can fight while Monk does whatever, and you can make the spirit use skills while fighting as Monk etc.

About the heal argument, I simply think getting potions is much more practical for healing. 15% HP heal every 20s isn’t something worth counting on. Better off to never use Heal and stick to HP potions and only use Heal when potions on CD.

Palm Strike also blows back the enemy iirc.

I think rooting is fine, since you need to stay close to the enemy anyway to hit it with any Monk skills aside of Energy Blast.
The movement issue could be fixed by adding a Prakriti attribute that reduces the CD time to 0 and removes all effects of Prakriti except for the movement of the body to the place the astral body is.
That way Prakriti could help making the body move and give OOB a tactical note to escape from attacks and ccs.

It could be extremely prominent if you are still able to use Prakriti even while immobilized (e.g. Iron Maiden,Leghold trap,etc), under status ailment (e.g. silence/stun) or while knocked back/knocked down,as your spiritual body cannot be disabled, giving Sadhu a more defensive and tactical role in the build.
Basically a better version of Champions “Body Relocation” in Ragnarok Online, if the animation delay was cut down/removed.

Palm Strike doesn’t knock back anymore, sadly.

The rooting becomes crap on mobile bosses, especially the golem in that vid. In a mob fight, monsters don’t necessarily run up close to you, and stay at a distance which only Hand Knife can hit too. Others run behind u and make sure you can’t hit all of em unless you reposition. The hitboxes of Monk Skills don’t help either, with Hand Knife and Energy Blast being so narrow, Palm Strike not having such a good vertical hitbox, and One Inch Punch having a shorter hitbox than its animation looks like. That immobile state really becomes cumbersome after a while, especially given how Monk is the kind of class whose skills can even be used while Jumping. Also, OoB screws up God Finger Flick aiming.

I used to use OoB and Prakriti to get out of AoEs and boss skills back then (OoB Double Punching boss, then iframe out when Safety Zone ends or someone needs healing), but that was possible due to the spirit having a high movement speed to move out fast back then. Sadhu just doesn’t mesh well with Monk nor does it have any benefit together … for now.

On a side note, please give Monk a Snap skill instead of having to use Zealot for Beady Eyed LEL.