Tree of Savior

KToS General Thread v4.0


#4760

Shh … don’t give IMC any ammo to say Monk is even good, do you know how long Monks have been praying for even a single buff?! Keep praying guys!!

Kinda weird how One-Inch Punch turned from one of Monk’s best burst skill, into a skill that may be not worth taking unless PvP (1 pointer for silence alone), depending on testing with its HP and SP drain (the drain damage is kinda insignificant and does not stack with spamming One-Inch Punch so whatever with the damage, but the SP drain is the important one). If only Double Punch’s Strike Debuff ability is restored I would’ve agreed on the Strike Debuff part, but urgh single target.


#4761

“Statue of Jesus” lol. Im still hoping they tweak chronomancer too.


#4762

I’d want you to think things through before you post, but that may be asking to much.

Golden Bell shield lasts only for 10s and has a 1m cd. so 10% upkeep of +50% evens out at +5%.
Finger Flick’s debuff is 5s per cast, takes time to use and I’m not sure how its debuff works in ktest atm. Regardless with 4 overheat and a 25s cd you can’t keep that up either. 20s/40 is 50% uptime of presumably 30% or 50% strike dmg buff?

So +20% or +30%. Though GBS’s reset is harder to factor in and would raise it slightly.

And even with Palm Strike’s 525% at lvl 15, it would still be roughly on par with the dmg of conviction or smite.
The only thing saving Palm strike is hand knife acting as a follow up combo, and yeah I don’t find that amazing on a class whose other skills rater suck atm.


@Umineko:

How on earth is that well balanced?
DS still deals a good amount of dmg, and Gevurah only works for a 3-11 hits at best which easily makes it the worse of the 3.


#4763

In itos, I have a Boole driud exorcist, which is less well equipped and lower level than my SR and Fencer. Yet, I clear same content much more reliable, faster and bring more to the team than any those two class


#4764

Lets take a burst scenario for velcoffer.

Palm Stike 830% (1245% Golden Bell)
Base Crit 150% crit dmg
Zealot + 50% crit dmg + 80% dmg (Forgot to add it, its dmg bonus is additive with golden bell)
Druid +170% crit dmg (Charnivory + Lycan Human Form) + 24% more physical damage
Pass
Flicker 6+1 (Based on skill level) Second 50% strike debuff (every over heat has its own cooldown always up in single target)

Lets add all of this up. 370% crit dmg buffs/debuffs stacked Flicker, 4 overheat Palm Strikes (830%), Golden Bell, Flicker, 4 Palm Strikes (1245%). Flicker, Pass, 4 Palm Strikes (1245%). 1-3 of the Palm strikes in that time period will not have the 370% crit dmg buff but you will be at 210% crit dmg

Mind you their are still more buffs/debuffs to stack.

Just maybe think a little before you post.

You cant just go oh golden bell isn’t always up so its a 5% dmg buff when in fact its used like how muskets use Prime and Load. By that thought process Prime and Load is a 0% dmg buff.


#4765

Wait, what’s your point? You’re literally backing what Baadaq in saying that clerics are over powered when using the same base funding and

Which I can only infer you want clerics to be nerfed to match the two examples given?

jokes aside, SR & fencer require excessive funding. That’s almost the universal thing any introduction to these classes will say. And sure, right now with badly equipped characters your druid exo can do braindead amounts of damage as other classes, that has been highlighted for months ever since exo has been released.

However, in terms of gameplay i find druid exo lacking if you can’t tell by my use of the term braindead and the two other classes outshine when properly done. A class that can revive-heal-damage-negate-block and simply

just spells doom for a game that boasts class variety. Lastly, my fencer carries druid-exo that have the same funding as myself in velcoffer.


#4766

But you should consider that most Monk skills have a CD time of 20 seconds + the skill resets the CD time of all Monk skills afaik. So in fact the uptime of +50% damage is way higher (basically once every 3 rotations or about 33%).

Divine Stigma deals damage but affects only very few monsters; it also only increases the damage taken by 50%, not by 100%. It’s better against bosses but worse against monsters since they die way before you can take full advantage of these 50% over 15 seconds.

Gevura affects enemies in a huge AoE on screen, with no target limit afaik, so with the increased numbers of mobs and higher aggro limit per character, it is very potent for mob clearing with strong AoE skills.
It doubles the damage at level 5, so its effect is stronger on average vs normal mobs but weaker against bosses since you’ve got a hit limit.

Death Sentence also boosts the damage against a large target number [about 15/16] by about 50%/55%.
It doesn’t affect boss monsters, so it’s mainly useful against normal monsters in e.g. CM or dungeons.

All 3 skills have the same CD time now, but different amounts of targets and damage modifiers, depending on target number,AoE and debuff duration.

The balance is here because while Divine Stigma features the highest possible boost, it only affects few targets, while Gevura affects high numbers of targets with a higher modifier but a shorter duration [i.e. it’s useful against normal monsters and bosses] and Death Sentence being the mob-exclusive skill that affects a high number of monsters again, but for a longer duration and with a lower modifier.

Of course, when playing Piano-style, Gevura looks as if it’s the worst of the skills, but it holds a fair middle ground with reasonable boosts for strong, non-multihit skills;
It’s basically the jack of all trades in damage augmentation, as it can be used efficiently against all types of enemies and in all kinds of scenarios,
while stricter limitations on both Divine Stigma and Death Sentence make them more useful for specific scenarios like bossing (Divine Stigma) or Challenge Mode (Death Sentence) where the effect difference becomes really visible.


#4767

-> Oh yes, let’s just ignore monks even though they’re on suicide watch OH HEY LET’S BUFF INQUISITOR AND EXORCIST INSTEAD

-> hhhhhhhhhmmmmm Nak Muay
-> image
HHHHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMM
-> image
let’s ignore conviction, carnivory and awoo form oh and 50% def ignore :upside_down_face:
-> image
I’m very sure that you’ll call BS on these because they’re not monk related :upside_down_face:
-> Actually, let’s just kill munks, not like these braindead mains will notice

image


#4768

Nerf cleric or buff other class, not really my saying
I just like to point out the balancing issue and why this thread always turn into cleric focus thread.

If my magic/rare without transcend cleric can do as good as or even better than my +11 unique/legendary high attribute SR/Fencer, and bringing more utility allowing my team to just face tank face roll anything. There clearly something very wrong, could be class strength, game mechanics or combination of both. Those issue must be address in re:build


#4769

But can you stack all those buffs on a Wiz? Can a Wiz have 370% crit dmg?Can any other class have anything that i just described but monk? What about debuffs that increase dmg by 50% … oh wait they were removed last ktest patch. Lets see maybe magic defence reduction debuffs oh wait they were all removed or moved to scout and changed to physical defence reduction. Oh wait their is one its on rune caster but it has a 8 second duration on a 50 second cd. Go cry a river somewhere else dude monk was fine and just needed a slight buff it didn’t need a 100% dmg buff. If you want a single class to carry the rest of the classes maybe you should play another base class.

Im happy that monk got buffed but this is just insanity


#4770

[quote=“kurokawamayumi, post:4768, topic:381396”]
If my magic/rare without transcend cleric can do as good as or even better than my +11 unique/legendary high attribute SR/Fencer[/quote]

That seems to be a player issue, ie you’d doing bad with your fencer.


#4771

-> Oh, sounds like a certain used to be a meme skill. Let me guess…it has a 10s duration with a 60s cd? did I get it right? :upside_down_face:


#4772

Just a simple test, Druid Exorcist could give out same amount of damage with just a few skill, but as a fencer, I have to dance on my keyboard and pray there are no lag while using my skills. While my Druid exorcist can heal, provide a short period of immunity


#4773

That’s … a lot of support needed to bring Palm Strike up, quite build-specific too. Same can be said for other DPS classes, but they can do it better.

From what I’ve tried with throwing numbers around, IMO I still think Monk needs more given how it’s a pure DPS class with no support skills (Iron Skin … no, 15 levels, 7.5% damage reduction if anyone can notice that) while other classes has better SFR, DPS and utility skills to go with it and boost DPS further for their own skills, other classes and other members of the party. In particular, One-Inch Punch really falls off as a DPS skill and more of a PvP skill now. Monks are rather strapped off skill points depending on their class build, and One-Inch Punch which used to be its burst skill (Beady Eyed > One-Inch Punch) falls off. If what you said about God Finger Flick with Debuff Duration increasing with skill level is true, skill points now just became more stretched in that regard.

Palm Strike and Hand Knife deserved that much DPS buff IMO. In the first place, Monk Damage-per-Second was never stronger than simply Auto-Attacking with buffs, especially Chaplain buffs, and the majority of Monk skills are pointless. Energy Blast was that one skill that could burst, but it requires a Chaplain or Krivis to make it better than Auto-Attacking. The Damage-per-Second of those two skills are not much different, if not better, than simply auto-attacking with Chaplain buffs, and with Hand Knife having a long Knock up makes it worse since it becomes harder to hit monsters flying in the sky. The numbers may sound exaggerated but really, in practice its reasonable. Other classes have skills that lay down strong damage faster so they have free time to use other skills, and becomes a drawback for constant DPS classes like Monk.

Golden Bell Shield is a rather weird skill to judge. 10 seconds to burst Monk skills so one would bring in a proper DPS rotation to go with this, AKA either:

  • Combo-ing with Palms Strike, Hand Knife, God Finger Flick and One-Inch Punch (Knock Up galore due to Hand Knife, hard to use with mobs)
  • Divine Stigma and/or Deploy Capella + Energy Blast (Damage is only viable and worth using when used with Divine Stigma/Deploy Capella, Divine Stigma only hits 5 monsters and Deploy Capella takes some time to set-up, Energy Blast takes 5 seconds to charge up and needs some time to reposition so not the full duration of the skill gets the buff, and then adding salt to injury is that infinite knockback … channeling the skill takes 6 seconds too)

I can’t say for sure from numbers alone which would be better, but that 10 seconds (or 9 seconds due to Golden Bell Shield animation) along with that cooldown is a rather hard buff to boast for a constant DPS class like Monk. I’ll argue the old Golden Bell Shield invulnerability has more use.

All in all, Monk is in a better place than it was before, but when IMC wants to “balance” classes so that they aren’t better than others and yet unique with their own personality, Monk lacks anything really unique outside pure DPS, and so far the numbers are still a tad too low while other classes are better off and still retain their “uniqueness and personality”. At the very least, I consider One-Inch Punch a priority for reworking. Hope IMC increases its damage and make its HP/SP drain stackable. At this rate, One-Inch Punch is turning into that one pointer skill for PvP, or that skill that’s maxed just to upkeep Drain uptime.

Also, give Monks their bare-handed stance already. Also, make Iron Skin blue aura persist on Monks please.


#4774

What did you expect from Exorcist??? :upside_down_face:
But you can’t deny the fact that fencer feels more rewarding to play than Death Ray, The Class


#4775

The Treeofsavior Youtube Page just uploaded a bunch of videos in Korean with rebuild class combinations like this one for example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bcpBUnb76Jw


#4776

I find this comparison extremely funny for some reason.


#4777

Few nitpicks:

  • Max lvl Palm Strike is 507% (without enhance), since 346 / 11.5 = (14 x 11.5) + 346 = 161 + 346. I forgot the first lvl was already included before.
  • Carnivory at max is +75% crit atk btw, and you get +60% crit rate / 24% patk from demi. Chorta may increase enemy crit res but I don’t know yet.
  • You should really combo each palm strike with hand knife, as it can only be used after palm strike and is essentially 428% dmg per hit. (Minus enhance, you get the idea.)
  • I haven’t seen finger flick debuff scale with lvl or any mention there off, did see it as a 5s debuff in one of the neko streams though.
  • I would like to avoid making full dmg buff compilations till I know if dmg tiers got changed in any way.
  • If you do put in zealot in the mix why not include fanaticism?
  • You forgot cards.

You do have a point about GBS being able to buff a better percentage of skills during its time.
But I also specifically stated “Though GBS’s reset is harder to factor in and would raise it slightly.”
And I’d say slightly because I’d assume you can’t fit in 4x Palm Strike + 4 Hand Knife vs most mobs (due to kd). Or EB like 4lk said.

And I never compared it in a full party, but from a far more simplistic class vs class approach.

ps, may is not the same as is.


#4778

That’s the thing imc need to address if IMC want true diversity, we can’t have 1 class in handicap more while other need to learn a proper rotation and synergy between class


#4779

Here’s a better joke for you,

Iron Skin reduces physical damage by 7.5% max.
Stone Skin reduces physical AND magic damage by 9.6% max.

Stone Skin > Iron Skin