Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v4.0

General Discussion
#3969

Does anyone know if elemental essence works if you electrocute frozen enemies??

#3970

I have a question for anyone who can translate better than google. It’s about this skill: https://tos.guru/ktest/database/skills/21305, which translates as “Casting is retained when you hit it, giving you the effect of reducing damage on casting while casting. Reduced damage during casting X%”. Since the google translation is bad (to say the least), I’d love to know if the damage reduction is only while you cast a skill or if it means “during the application of the buff” or something like that. Pretty please? And I assume the first part of the translation means “your casts won’t be cancelled when damaged”, which is now natural for Wizards :confused:

Also, that same skill has an attribute that apparently buffs Rune of Justice’s damage? Maybe a typo or a missplaced attribute? @rjgtav1 maybe you know.

#3971

I think it’s the other way around. The lack of xclass synergies free’s up class choice. Take a look at pyro-ele or pyro-kino with fireball’s/flame ground’s forced synergies. Taking pyro means you take ele and/or kino because both these choices enhance pyro directly. Look at shadowmancer or lock being “forced” to take bokor because curse doubles dark damage.

The result is sadly a pretty “bland” game.

1 Like
#3972

Which is perfectly fine and it’s one of the aspects we should be more focused on. “How long will it take for new players to meet the conditions to participate in end game content?” as opposed to whether their build works or not. For me at least, Tree of Savior always had this sheer amount of effort you need to put on achieving proper end game gear, which thankfully has slowly been addressed with the years. The fact that they’re giving more spotlight to full support builds hints that the transition to Re:Build from the game we currently know will be huge and i understand why some people might be discontent about these changes. As for me i like the idea of Tree of Savior encouraging a more “team” based sort of play. Having dedicated builds that are able take care of the weaknessses of a DPS so they are able to make up for their lack of damage as opposed to the one man army impression the current game has always given me, which in my opinion becomes boring with time.

As for the classes being able to perform “by themselves”, try to have a look at classes like Peltasta and ask yourself if that would be viable. You can argue that this is less likely to happen to a DPS, but what about classes like Musketeer that mainly depend on their single target capacities, just like Cryomancer is designed to fit the needs for hard crowd control in a party. In order for a class to be able to achieve that IMC would have to go beyond the main purpose of the class as well as create an average number of skills close to what Bullet Marker has, which in reality is not as good as it appears to be. With the way the class system is structured you guys should ask yourselves what your character is meant to do instead of what each individual class is capable of doing.

On a personal note, i’ve been playing Hunter since the game was released, and after the reveal of Re: i no longer have hopes for IMC to improve the class, it is very clear to me that Hunter was meant to be a support and a support it should stay, which after some thought it isn’t a bad thing considering the concept Re: is following, which is party play.

Regarding unfairness certain skills SFR, going back to the topic of “standalone performance”, Mergens have many options to take in order to fuctions as a DPS, the fact that Zenith has been toned down doesn’t mean that the class is completely useless, in fact i’d argue that its dps potential is far greater now considering the recent buffs to certain skills as well as how other classes have been reworked. Take Falconer’s Pre-Emptive Strike removal as an example, now that is a severe change. Every change they made has a reason behind it if you think hard enough. If you take a look at skills like Cannon Shot, it is a skills that appears too good for the standards the game has after Re:, but you also need to have in account that Cannoners are a stationary class and don’t have the levels of mobility a Mergen based build does, they trade that lack of mobility for more power and constant damage, and let’s be fair, Cannoners haven’t had any sort spotlight since the last combat changes, might as well let them have some fun.

All in all, the game we currently know as Tree of Savior will drastically change in a month, so let’s get used to that idea and not make many comparisons. Except for the game’s performance, that’s still ■■■■.

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#3973

Based on how the skill works currently and the new duration, it seems like your casting won’t be interrupted even if you are knocked back/down, or you’re immune to it while also giving you a 10% damage reduction while casting. :thinking:
Wizards no longer have Surespell though.

#3974

Not really, we only see this “forced” class situation when there are little to few xclass synergies. For example if Pyro/Cryo gets more synergies like:

  • Pyro Hell Flame + Onmyoji’s Tree burns the tree creating an additional fire DoT damage for those hit by the tree.

  • Onmyoji’s Tidepod + Cryo’s Ice Wall makes ice wall burst immediately dealing a 1 hit shard aoe damage.

  • Shadowmancer’s Hallucination will gain a frost property when the build has Cryomancer. On Hallucination skill use it also uses up 1 cast of Ice Pike to create a frost shadow. The shadow will explode after 5 secs with a Frost Pike effect.

  • When use Pyro and Cryo in a build, Ice bolt and Fireball gains the FrostFire effect. Ice bolt has a 15% chance of exploding a small aoe of fire on hit and Fireball has a small chance of 10% to freeze enemies.

  • Featherfoot Blood Bath gains an effect to absorb fireballs instead of blood when the build has Pyromancer. When used on fireballs that has yet to explode, the player gains a permanent “fireup” buff that increases the next 1 hit of a pyromancer skill by 20% per fireball absorbed. Fireup buff is
    expended after the skill hits for 1 hit and can a max of 5 stacks of “fireup”.

With more builds having xclass synergies, players are given more choices to choose. Why stick to pyro-kino-ele when they can have pyro-onmyo-featherfoot or pyro-cryo-onmyo or cryo-shadow-bokor, so on and forth. It makes players feel great cuz their build choice grant special effects and skills, they also don’t feel “shortchanged” by not going pyro-ele that has a specific skill synergy.

8 Likes
#3975

I guess it has to be spelled out because literally no one understands. No one saying that any one class should be able to “solo.”

What people are saying is that, if I pick up pyro, I should not feel like kino is mandatory because of some weird synergy. If I pick up pelt, murm should work as well as reti should work as well as fencer and so on.

Musketeer has hunter synergy. Does that mean that hunter + musket is mandatory? No, absolutely not. Is it a nice bonus if you chose to grab both? Sure.

Except that nothing is forced–they are simply a bonus. Pyro kino onmyo has synergy right now and the combo is still utter trash for literally all content, as a great example. Small synergies aren’t going to make or break a combination.

#3976

Sure this is true (and quite ideal IMHO) but that isn’t the case (yet). For xclass to work all classes need/must have it. Otherwise those that don’t have xclass synergies either don’t/rarely get picked or are picked because they are so strong they don’t need synergies.

I suppose a better example would be current bunshin cloning “everything”. Those with the most clonable skills get picked over those with the least, right?

1 Like
#3977

If that’s the reason behind this whole debate then you do have a point. I apologize since i didn’t went deep enough into the thread and well, nowdays people use the usual “CM5 solo” videos to demonstrate how capable a class is, which is sort of pointless in my opinion. And i do agree in that regard, you shouldn’t feel like following X path is mandatory for your build. The thing is that you really aren’t. You can pick whatever you wish and still make it work somehow. Now the problem is, which i guess it’s what you want to point out, is that this always result in half-assed things. Let’s take the Hunter/Musketeer case you gave us for example, in this situation you have some of the tools of a support and some of the damage of a DPS, but never the same potential of a full dedicated DPS or support, and this will always end on the same argument, which is the lack or synergies.

This is why i present the example of a Peltasta, if your core class is a Peltasta you have two options, being fully dedicated to tanking and protection or turning into a half-assed DPS, because there’s only to classes that are able to wear shields and do damage at the same time and they’re not very good at what they intend, in my opinion. The rest of the DPS classes do not have the need for a defensive rank because your party members will always cover those weaknesses, unless you like a more “creative” team. Classes like Peltasta and Cryomancer are good at what they are meant to do, so in theory they can work very well by themselves in any team, the additions are always good and are there to reinforce the purpose of the core of your build. There is really not much build diversity right now because of the lack of synergies and hopefully this will be addressed in the future.

Then again, there’s a keyword to this: “purpose”.
What is the purpose of that character you are creating?, is it meant for clearing content?, is it meant to be used for farming?, or perhaps you are making it for the sole purpose of having fun, like roleplaying for example. I think this is probably what they meant by class diversity and class combinations, you can come up with a build for your needs with the amount of options they’re giving you, perhaps that one class that is recommended for your build is a very good addition if you want to fulfill your role as a dedicated DPS, but maybe is not that impressive when your goal is farming efficiency. Regardless, i think your point is very valid and i hope to see more than one combination for each purpose in the future. As for now, while i’d like to be as strong as a Mergen based build with a Dog, a poison bag and a wood plank, i think something that fits my core class will work better for me in the long run.

1 Like
#3978

Pardoner’s Discern evil is still being overlooked, it should be a damage over time effect now but annoyingly is practically still single target ish.
Its specific synergy is supposed to spread its "de"buff to nearby enemies when are hit by holy element dmg aoe?

@greyhiem can you make any sense of this?:
“★디서닝 이블에 걸린 적이 신성 속성 공격이 깃든 영역에 들어갈 때, 주변 대상들에게 디서닝 이블 디버프를 전이시킵니다.”

And decatose is not that bad atm, aside of the silver cost at least, it’s a pretty good dmg skill now.

–

As for Oracle, it’s skillset is not that bad but at the same time also far to niche. As in almost PvP only that I can think off.

Mostly because it’s essentially a full support class that heavily focuses on negating magic dmg/r1 debuffs that also has two tiny splashes of dmg boosts.

  • If your build already has to little dmg, you’re not going to pick Oracle obviously. Divine Might + Death Sentence just aren’t that strong.
  • If you’re a dps build that wants survivability you’re not going to pick oracle. (pd/priest/kabba heal better and kabba/pd have decent dmg)
  • If you’re a pure dmg diev you won’t grab oracle (diev+miko is bis, 3rd class is same issue as above.)
  • If you’re a hybrid diev (diev+priest+kabba) you don’t really have room to replace priest or kabba. You need the healing far to much.
  • A pardoner build (priest+pardoner) will most likely want more healing/dmg to flesh it out as an all-purpose build (kabba/pd) or krivis to craft daino/zalciai scrolls.
  • A pure healer cleric (priest) you’ll want more healing and utility. PD/Kabba/Paladin/Pardoner all provide this rather well. But oracle as a 3rd slot still seems sub-par compared to what diev’s silence or the ones already mentioned can do. And Miko makes for a more tempting dmg booster option. (magic dmg only ofc)

The one execption I could see is a paladin+oracle+diev tank, as you’d need laima + divine might to keep barrier devotion up atm.
World Tree + Counterspell + Foretell would reduce dmg taken so you last longer and you even have owls for dmg.
But you can’t really heal either…

–

I think Oracle needs either healing, extra synergies, a dmg skill or an interesting spr scaling mechanic just to make it competitive for PvE.

And they might as well do it with Arcane Energy/loot skills as those are just not worth the skill points atm.
Death Sentence is also underperforming, but I can at least see it shine somewhat in PvP.

3 Likes
#3979

I am and will continue been Cleric > Priest > Oracle > Kabba <not in that exact order xD but…

1 Like
#3980

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 1 hour unless flagged)

#3981

Wrong account, anyway.

What is that ■■■■, are we going back to 2016? Suddenly they woke up feeling like nerfing all the classes and making the current content harder. And the player is using trans 10 +11 2H sword go figure.
Is there any Velcoffer video out yet after Re:Build? Feels like a low kick to the new and average players to make bosses harder like Siauliai/Saalus, imagine Velcoffer after re:build. Looking forward to that Velco video, seriously.
Time to farm the hell out of Velcoffer inb4 they make it hard af.

#3982

Oracles see the future, so healing what has been done doesn’t really match its image.

Maybe make monsters see their future punishments and apply a fear de-buff.

4 Likes
#3983

I don’t think any class got really nerfed, as the gameplay in Re:Build is very different to what we currently have. Because of that each class has been reworked in order to fit those standards. Some classes are stronger and some stay the same, there’s just no more of the overpowered sort of characters we are used to play.

What i wanted to prove with that video wasn’t how strong the player is, but how much of an effort he has to put by himself in order achieve something that we currently do so easily with the same tools. This is the reason why i think the game will be more focused on party play, giving supports the chance to play a bigger role in parties instead of becoming an afk dispenser. Besides let’s be honest, the time he took to kill that first boss was fairly quick, we are just used to fight bosses that are the equivalent of a cockroach rather than an actual boss. Not everything has to be inside end-game content in order to be challenging.

Unfortunately no, there’s no Velcoffer video yet, but i do look forward to it too.

And i really don’t think the rise of difficulty is a bad thing, on the contrary it is something that this game needs. The fact that content is harder to clear will hold players from rushing the game while having something challenging to keep them engaged without the necessity of waiting several weeks in order to have that experience. With these changes they will have the time to gather the materials needed for their end game gear without turning the game into a grind fest as well as being able to enjoy the rest of the content the game has to offer, including questing, which right now has the most weak and boring boss fights because of how everpowered one can become when just starting the game.
With that said, i hope they also improve in boss mechanics, because that knockback fiesta is something i really despise about boss fights in Tree of Savior…

1 Like
#3984

Yeah except you could increase the damage of your party by over 70% with oracle and paladin making what ever form of dps you could have brought as a healer/dps hybrid invalid in end game content.

Saying that oracle is bad because you play the game in a solo setting is like saying Thaumaturge, Linker is bad. Everyone that does end game content knows that a geared thaumaturge linker can provide more dps to a group than any dps could provide no matter how geared.

2 Likes
#3985

Yeah, I feel like I only want oracle for obligation, not because I actually enjoy what the class can bring to the table.

I’m sure the invuln will be strong with coordinated teams, but the AOE is so small that most pugs will just run around you.

However, I need oracle now because of Divine might for shops. So I will run Oracle/Pardoner/Priest.

By itself that doesn’t sound like a terrible support build, but not a particularly strong one.

1 Like
#3986

Death Sentence is 65% x 25/60 = 27%. (max skil lvl + divine Might x (duration/cd))
Learn to count first, then try to make your argument.

{Edited to include a few more reason why DS is subpar for PvE and to be clearer in what I meant.}

Death Sentence’s downsides include:

  • It only debuffs 5 enemies per minute.
  • It doesn’t affect bonus/elemental property dmg so it’s not even for all dmg sources.
  • It used to count as a tier1 dmg buff, meaning it is additive with most dmg boosts. (I do hope they fixed that at least.)

Nor was I complaining about paladin.

#3987

i think you are underestimating how useful divine might will be now. every buff now scales with a % so any extra lvl is good for some skills.

for example
swordies get better bear/gunho 2% more
peltasta guardian scales 8% resist per lvl (max 5) with divine might you get 48% + attributes
all scout will have 4% more evasion
outlaw gets 10% more evasion

and many more

obviously some classes without buffs wont get anything but extra dmg in their skills which is not bad for a 25 seconds CD with 10 uses

2 Likes
#3988

It’s a great idea to make content harder indeed, but not 2 years later when you implemented Transcendence, changed damage formula, a good portion of your players are geared as ■■■■, you kicked out 90% of your competitive players and all that remains are casual/social players.
Think of it like time invested:
Before Re:build
7 to 30 Min Velcoffer clear
2 min Saalus clear per character

After Re build
30-min-1 hour Velcoffer clear.
10 min Saalus clear per character

At this point just go back to 2016, remove transcendence, go back to the old damage formula, remove the rank system and tweak the skill factors. Too much effort and all that people really wanted was a decent graphic optimization with no lag fest in cities or any place with people spamming AoE skills. /sigh

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