Yes…
Also… if you have google chrome, you can translate the database of rjgtav https://tos.guru/ktest/simulator
If you have doubts on how to do the autotranslate pm me in forum, i can tell you in more detail…
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Lots of Cleric skills show usable-on-mount in tosguru, is that correct?
well… this
20characters
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it was always like that I think…but you know… to be able to use skills mounted we need a mounted class first with a mount attribute… and that didn’t happen yet :F
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Ok their needs to be the holy trifecta of tank/support/dps to some extent so games can function because if you give every class the ability to do everything and homogenise them than you just pick the best out of the 3 with out the need of the other 2.
What your asking is pure insanity. A healer should have every right to go full healer across all of the ranks to be able to keep their party alive in end game content.
The same how we currently have full support wizards that provide a group with so much more dps that those 3 dps can out dps 5-6 dps if they were equally geared.
If you think end game content is cm5 and your daily 3 dungeons then your playing the game wrong and really a rainbow build could still do the 330 dungeon effectively with reasonable gear investment.
Your are suppose to balance the game around end game content so the player can discover what is good and what is bad over the time by gaining experience in paying the game. In turn creating a meta for end game.
Not every build/class is suppose to be made equally because of these simple things.
The only problem i see mainly with the upcoming re:build changes is auto stats for the HuBriD BuILdS everyone seems to want to do.
But i do agree with your statement on attribute costs, they should have reduced the costs further between rank 5 and 6.
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I mostly agree with you but one of your examples is a little bit extreme :
In any game you can’t consider to run a dungeon with a full support team, unless the game provide low/medium DPS skills to full support classes. The idea is to open builds on more possibilites, but they certainly don’t have the pretention to make every build viable. Players still have their job to do in the creation part.
I think people might consider to take Pardoner on a playable character, and not only an afk shop character. And in that, Re:build didn’t fail for me.
I think we just don’t really talk about the same thing here. “Think” =/= “see”. I obviously see Cryo by itself, but can’t think about Cryo alone in game. I could if I was not aware of the system, but I am. And for synergies it seems developers doesn’t put them on a secondary spot for some classes (not all it’s sure). When you see ToS history, they never stopped to create more and more synergies between classes in their balance patch note (Kneeling Shot for Canon, Lightning damage increased on frost target without any attribute, Psycho new skill to make monsters “ground-type”, Enchanter attributes with Psycho…). And just remember how OP Cryo + Psycho was during CBT, for me it started at this right moment. You can’t balance the game by considering a class alone. Balance a class ok, but not the entire game.
1 Balance Cryo < 2 Balance Cryo by testing it with each class of the tree and builds from other trees.
Now there are examples you really, really can’t consider alone : Chaplain needs 3 circles of Priest in the actual system, few Pardoner skills are useless without other jobs like Krivis/Paladin/Priest.
And after all there are many examples you can totally consider alone, because in their case, synergy is secondary :
Exorcist, Zealot, Inquisitor, Druid, Pyro, Doppel…
So I half agree with you, I would say there are classes you can consider alone and some classes you can’t totally consider alone (most of “support” or “utility” classes, Diev being a counter example). But I’m really sorry, I’ll stick to my idea, Cryo can’t be considered alone because it’s an utility type class, and the skills of this class are completely made to support your own build + other player builds in your team. Synergy add to much to Cryo, and I doubt someone developped Cryo without thinking about other classes that could go with it : “let’s create a mage that can freeze enemy forever… for the purpose of… freezing, putting an Ice wall here tooo… block monsters” (especially Cryo prerework).
tl;dr I’am a weirdo
6 Likes
Oh ok. I was struggling to picture Kagura on mount. Thank you.
My take on Re:build currently. Concept of the 1+3 circle build is great but it needs quite a fair bit of extra work to sell the idea.
Main impression: It feels that the number of build variance is much much lower than the current pre:rebuild we are playing. I just don’t feel the 560 variations of builds IMC is selling for the rebuild.
With the class rework, it gives this feeling that within each base class there are specific subgroups, groups of classes that work well but don’t really work with the other groups.
For example in the scout tree, Enchanter don’t gel well with SR nor BM. Its signature skill Lightning Hands can’t be used with Limacon (overwrite each other) and its secondary hand nature makes Dual Gun Stance (main hand buff) sad.
This makes Enchanter - BM - SR build really clunky to play, can’t really maximise the build without focusing on one and neutering the other 2 classes.
Next is the lack of multi-class synergy, most of the classes in Re:build have only 1 synergy link with 1 other class. This further reduces the diversity of builds as players who want their builds to work well together have limited choices. Like with Paladin Inquisitor, there’s no other choice to replace either as viable dps alternative.
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If the game wants to tout its concept of build variance, there is a need for more synergies within classes. Make each class have skill synergies with 3 to 4 other classes. This will increase the diversity of builds.
24 Likes
I would happily group up with any one of the 560 Swordsman, 560 Wizard, 560 Cleric, 220 Archer, 165 Scout character builds. Some would be really obscure, and I like obscurity in an mmo.
But for each of my friend’s builds, I would naturally pick a complimenting character from my barrack.
I like to think there really are 560 Swordsman builds, only there aren’t ( 560 + 560 + 560 + 220 + 165 ) ^ 5 = 37 549 164 666 540 625 viable groups. Why wouldn’t you bring a character that smoothens up the group synergy.
Also I will make a point in noting that Archer (12 classes) and Scout (11 classes) have much less classes in their tree compared to Swordsman, Wizard, and Cleric (16 classes).
If you feel Archer or Scout lacks diversity, it’s only logical.
The Re:Build format has only just started, and I am excited how the 5 trees will grow out of its clunky infancy.
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When you have been advocating for class synergy the past 2 weeks because classes on rebuild have fewer classes to synergies with because of auto stats and skill scaling/mechanics. But half the community is telling u its fine.
And i used a simple example of chaplain/monk/+another physical cleric class.
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…and then you want chaplain to be full physical… yeah sure…
For me, Re:build only open up to more possibilites, but doesn’t solve the problem stated by Nekorin. I see a lot of possible builds with Paladin because it’s more focused on the utility, but I feel like Inquisitor on the other hand require Paladin.
I’m really hyped for this update, but at the same I ended up with 10 new builds while I have 11 slots, because it’s so well rounded that sometimes you feel like there’s no other better choice. Now I don’t have access to Ktest, so it’s only theory for my side.
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So asking for a Class being viable for game content is insanity?
Are you even playing the game?
On the one hand you say that CM5 and daily dungeons aren’t endgame, but on the other hand the fact these builds will already fail there doesn’t bother you?
I’m not asking for OP jack of all trades-ness, but I’m asking for the ability for every Class to be able to clear basic day-to-day content (i.e. Saalus or 330 dungeon).
Imagine you take Oracle with 0 attack capabilities as your second Class, how are you going to level up?
Even questing might take longer because you’re limited to Smite/Cure and/or auto-attacking.
You talk about the viability of full support builds, but at the same time you think it’s ok to shut them out from basic content without having to rely on other people regardless of gear level?
You could have a +40 T10 Velcoffer Mace and still would take forever to even clear Saalus alone, let alone the 330 dungeon.
There are good examples on how it’s done right, e.g. Plague Doctor/Kabbalist/Dievdirbys balancing some attack skills with utility/support skills.
That’s the way you are making Classes relevant for content, by providing option to go on the offensive when required and to pull your own weight in the game.
Classes like these lose way less compared to Classes that have no combat abilities at all.
And this is what makes them viable for more build options, because people will be more willing to take a Class with less offensive capabilities than none, especially considering it can screw over their stat adjustment and cost some few millions for attributes.
By the way, you also have to consider this:
a full support build is not needed at all for most of the content.
You can clear Saalus, challenge mode, raids and/or regular dungeons as well as farm in HG without any need for Full supporters.
Full supporters are currently only slaves for “endgame” content like Velcoffer Nest, maybe the new raid, Demon Lord hunting and GVG.
First of all, the majority of the contents listed here are ± locked behind a certain level of gear requirements you have to grind with your full support character (or you need to have another character just for doing that);
After meeting that part, these contents are hard-locked/soft-locked by daily/weekly time/entrance restrictions, meaning the rest of the time your character will be basically useless and/or a hard-carry, gg.
This means these builds are not viable as main characters but sub-characters/content-specific slaves, and this trend will continue with Re:build.
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Current game =/= Re:Build even if it still sucks
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what you want is solo builds not end game builds you need to differentiate from them which means solo build = jack of all trades. I say this because you are contradicting your self in your last two posts.
Healers should heal, DPS should DPS, supports should support party play is essential for an MMO if u want solo play go play a single player game. Don’t bring that to MMOs because its cancerous to the game.
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Take this video as an example and have in account the following:
- The level of his gear
- The amount of HP each boss has (Which is about the same saalus bosses have in the current game, and we are more than capable of one shotting. Now compare that to an end game content boss such as Velcoffer.)
- The amount of damage he deals
To summarize, at least in my opinion, bosses are bosses now and full support builds will be very welcomed in the future.
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Exactly what I’ve been seeing in all kTos videos. I don’t have a +11 Trans 10 weapon.
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does anybody have any ret vids they found
Cryo isn’t designed to solo cm5 by itself. The class functions by itself in the role it’s designed and intended to perform, which is CC.
If you popped a cryo into a team of others in a 330 dungeon and told them to only use cryo skills, then they would do their part in locking enemies down. That is what they mean by ‘each class is standalone’. NOT that each class is designed to solo all content in the entire game.
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Oracle: the only class that has Divine Might and the only class with teamwide invulnerability in-game.
Pardoner: an excellent choice of filler for healing support builds now that Indulgentia is a pretty solid heal that pairs really well with Pardoner’s new aura.
Chronomancer: it’s still freaking chronomancer and Quick Cast is still Quick Cast. It could do nothing but cast Pass on cooldown and it’d still increase team dps.
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