kTOS General Thread v2.0

[Nekorin]

I would very like to see more boss mechanics which encourage party play rather than the full out dps down style or the tank and spank style we have now. Forgot which thread I wrote my ideas previously, but roughly the mechanics below will work nicely in ToS.

• Periodically the boss will hand out a 6secs debuff to a random player within the area. Player with the debuff will damage all other players surrounding him/her if he doesn’t move away from others, damage is around 3-4k damage per tick that ignores mdef. This debuff cannot be removed and will last for a full 6 secs. Player with the debuff wouldn’t take any damage from it at all.

• Boss will root himself/herself and summon a group of 10-20 minions (with 1-2m hp each) that will make a beeline to the boss. The minions move slowly, ignores any threat or CCs and only prioritise in getting to the boss. Players will have to dps down the minions once they see them. Each minon that successfully reaches the boss will heal the boss by 5% hp.

• Environment mechanics for bosses. Some bosses require the team to split to operate on interact’able objects to remove the boss’s invincible shield

Something along these lines, the purpose is to let the boss fight be more of a team coordination/play effort than just everyone spamming all their skills whenever it is off cooldown. There should be some back and forth, when to and not to dps, when to focus and not to focus on boss and when to split or focus on objective/sub-objectives. All these make the boss fight more interactive.

[rofldat]

healers with more hp and equal amounts of armor to the tank.

Armor sure, but about HP you’re just spouting lies now.
Swordsman have both higher base HP AND HP gained per CON.

If anything, your obsession with only party wipe/instant kill as the form of punishment is the mark of bad game design.
Even if people do die, you know Soul Crystal is a thing? That thing so useful that IMC had to disable it in Earth Tower?

What next, you’re gonna propose to disable uses of Soul Crystal in future content because screw the previously established rule of the game? Let’s also just turn this into WoW clone while at it? Who needs freedom of class choice when the only ‘interesting’ design to you seem to be the holy trinity and instant kills for failure to read the instruction (if you can read it in time before it goes off)

[Awoooo]

Cool lets change nothing then. The current fights are perfect.

You’ve literally argued against every single possible suggestion to change them. If you think the existing suggestions are bad and are so strongly against them, please enlighten everyone with what you think will make the bosses more challenging and more interesting.

If it doesn’t involve the party failing and having to learn and overcome the challenge. I disagree with it.

I don’t why you keep saying holy trinity. I didn’t bring up the trinity. You did.

There’s a difference between suggesting the content should actually be something you can die while trying to do, and making a wow clone. The video above being wow has absolutely nothing to do with making tos into a wow clone. I could just have easily picked 5 other MMOs with quality boss fights that you’re actually capable of losing. Tos bosses are all just a dps check. They can’t actually be lost by even an average party at the correct level for it, just take a very long time without the necessary damage.

[Nekorin]

Why not do it the reverse way? Instead of the party wiping, for every ‘blunder’ the players do, it retroactively heals the boss instead?

Players would not die from the encounter but it will make the encounter so much longer. Theoretically if they keep making blunders it will take forever or until they can’t fight due to maintenance to down the boss.

[inyux3]

It’s slow compared to other mmos, that’s probably why. Comparing to WoW, FFXIV globals are 2.5 to WoW’s 1 - 1.5 globals, which feel ridiculously long. A lot of people who tried FFXIV coming from WoW stopped playing it because of this.

That being said, I think FFXIV raid bosses and raid combat are much more interesting than WoW’s. I haven’t played Legion WoW mythic raids, just easy heroic modes through party finder. I’ve cleared a few FFXIV raid bosses in top world 5ish though.

Uhhh… I know what I’m saying is what I’m saying, kinda.

[rofldat]

Cool lets change nothing then. The current fights are perfect.

You’ve literally argued against every single possible suggestion to change them

No I did not,
This is what I objected to, and I’m pretty sure I’ve only insisted against this thing:[quote=“rofldat, post:8659, topic:321901”]
Punishment for failing to do something? Fine, but instant wipe? Heck no, that only serves to piss people off especially when there’s limited runs a day already.
[/quote]

please enlighten everyone with what you think will make the bosses more challenging and more interesting.

If it doesn’t involve the party failing and having to learn and overcome the challenge. I disagree with it

you mean like this thing I mentioned and you completely ignored?

also, there’s other form of punishment besides instant death

for example, boss drop an object that need party to kill or it’ll spawn a very strong miniboss
it doesn’t instantly wipe the party
there’s multiple ways of dealing with it(someone kite it, turn to kill it, or ignore it to try to kill boss)

wouldn’t that be ‘interesting’? AND IT DOESN’T REQUIRE KILLING ANYONE.

I don’t why you keep saying holy trinity. I didn’t bring up the trinity. You did.

I did mention the trinity and dropped it, but then you referred to their components.

Yes but tos also has healers with more hp and equal amounts of armor to the tank.

healers
tank

Unless you’re not aware of what the trinity is made of…

Tos bosses are all just a dps check. They can’t actually be lost by even an average party at the correct level for it, just take a very long time without the necessary damage.

You might want to look up the definition of dps check, because ‘take a very long time without the necessary damage’ would means it can be done regardless of dps, which it NOT what a dps check is.

I’ll just say it again, THERE’S OTHER WAYS BESIDE INSTANT KILL TO POSE A CHALLENGE.
Here’s some others:
-Long duration CC (expose the player to getting hit by something else, and essentially ‘kill’ them for the duration of CC anyway)
-Something already in the game - Boss gain damage blocking shield with duration, you can either burn through that shield with raw damage, dispel it (i.e. Miko’s Gohei on the Tree in Siaulai mission), or just wait the duration out.
What @Nekorin said, boss that can heal (actually we do have that already btw, a story boss)

[Awoooo]

And what do you propose when a party of 4 PDs and 1 tank fight a boss?

Clerics have some of the highest boss damage in the game right now.

You’re not wiping a multiple cleric party without doing an full wipe.

Let’s ignore the fact that the worldbosses will likely have 10-30 people from a single guild fight them. Meaning pretty much a mountain of clerics.

[rofldat]

1 tank
…

4 PDs would do rather low damage since only one of them can actually use PD skill (unlike Wugu, they don’t stack)
So the shield variant or the self-healing variant would delays them massively. And the time wasted alone would be plenty enough to discourage them (there’s a reason that despite using bonfire it’s possible to heal back up and clear dungeons, people still prefer to have cleric around)

You’re not wiping a multiple cleric party without doing an full wipe.

Again, wiping does not have to be the option, there’s other ways to challenge/punish players, your insistence to only aim towards death is a terrible mindset to have and limit ideas.
Other ways of punishing cleric group would include mob that can remove buffs (say, boss have an attack that remove all buff + heal the boss per buff removed on hit), or use Reversi.

Players are still human, and if the effort required isn’t worth the reward, they will not want to do it (see the complaints on massive DPK values, while there’s some who farm there, most players don’t bother with it)

As for WB
Any open world content is impossible to balance properly anyway, since you either ends up with something impractical to handle (balance around nearly impossible demand) or die to the zerg rush (more people than it’s balanced for), frankly I would accept that as a done deal and stop trying to add BS mechanics in the misguided attempt to makes it ‘balance’ somehow.

[63scaur]

And what do you propose when a party of 4 PDs and 1 tank fight a boss?

Lol? 4 PD is equal to one because their skill overwrites.

[Awoooo]

I know you really like being able to get one over on me scaur because you simply dislike me, but that’s really besides the point being made. It doesn’t have to be PDs. Just happened to be the first cleric to mind. Point is that Clerics still do great dps so a party of clerics isn’t out of the question.

[63scaur]

Why get personal? My reply discussed game mechanics, nothing else. PDs are good DPS, but each party only needs one. After the balance patch monk inquisitors can be far more powerful in both parties and solo, provided you have low ping. That would be a better example to use.

[Awoooo]

Because you felt it important to double up on an error I made despite it already being mentioned.

[arkgolf]

New level up effect

08 06 patch note

트리 오브 세이비어

Most is the same as ktest update so far.

[63scaur]

Yes it is an important fact because many people are unaware or keep forgetting about it. Same goes for Mastema and why warlock is not a good choice after ele3.

[hollowmagician]

Warlock is also good with Ele3. Stop trolling and have some shame. @Awoooo dont mind this guy, he is just trying to trigger you.

[Awoooo]

[Weregreymon]

The guy was literally leveling up from his own level up xD

[soldatazur]

and this game is not?

have you actually played a8s +?

a8s+ ?

FFXIV is a point and click because you can litteraly play the game with your mouse only, click on the mob and click on your spells. Show me how you are doing that in ToS.

GW2, Blade and Soul, TSO, WoW, FFXIV are all tab-target based games.

GW2 tab target ? Nope. You just need to face a mob and use an ability, the game will autofocus a mob and it works very well for both ranged and melee characters. Don’t get why you would use tab target in this game as you are able to hit multiple enemies at the same time.

Blade & Soul tab target too o_O ? What ? I don’t even know if you can tab target in this game.

TSO tab target ??? Do you know what is tab target ?

[arkgolf]

Actually you can tab target in BNS but you don’t need to do that since you can attack multiple target at once.

[jadgtiger30]

tab target is something like Devil May Cry game play ?