No. It would be 10 hits if someone can only take 3 hits with only the hp increase, and 13 hits if someone can only take 4 hits with hp and defense.
At 200k hp (and 5k defense) compared to 60k hp (and 2k defense) and monsters doing 20k per hit.
why would monsters hit 20k on both one who has 5k and one who has 2k def?
First of all if you had 2k def i doubt anything can hit u over 10k
With 5k def you might even get hit 1s
That’s not how defense works in this game.
If you have 5k defense, and a monster does 20k damage normally, then the monster will do 15k instead.
If you have 2k defense, and a monster does 20k normally, then the monster does 18k instead.
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show me a single normal mob with 20k atk
It does not works like that in pve since a long time, like july or august.
Thought in pvp scaling is still 1:1 normally.
You can check the video in this post. Or even make a test yourself. it’s pretty easy.
edit : atm if you can get over 2k def or 2k mdef you are pretty much invincible for almost all pve content except a few WB. and some bugued skill like the new poa from mobs.
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That thing literally says attack - defense.
And this is way more accurate
@physicsquests
I don’t need to because that was an example. if you take a monster with 5k attack it simply takes 4x longer to kill you.
They hit hard cause of magnification. Their actual atks arent nearly as high.
Having 5k def will grant you exponentially higher survivability than 2k
Also a monster with 5k base atk will hit the 5k def guy 1s and the 2k def guy lord knows how much.
the atk from mobs all go from 1k-2k in the game right now, outside of some wbs, and yes it work like atk - defense but the hit you are talking about and the one you receive in the game for 10k-20k-30k and so on is because all mobs have a hidden X value that apply to their base atk that is in fact 1k-2k range , so if you have more to 2k defm and def you will be invincible because all the monsters atk-skills would not matter because their base atk would still be 0 so the game would put the value 1.
the game was always like this, but some people have spread the word that defense works as simple flat value without counting the hidden value in certain actions made by mobs and bosses.
and i call that actions because even a normal slap of a boss/mob is special and have those values in it.
Of course. All you really need to do is get your defense to reduce the monster’s damage so that it does like 10~20% of it’s original damage. At that point, increasing HP has little value.
@nery_ma
Defense does work as a simple flat value. Monsters just have their own set of common/skill/target modifiers that multiply to the final damage.
However, I was never talking about the final damage of monsters. I was talking about a monster doing 20k damage. Those were examples because bigger numbers are far easier to see and understand instead of going into decimals.
I know that monsters can’t reach damage that high, and I also know that players are barely able to get up to 2k defense.
this is the same as i have wrote, the formula apply as atk-defense but the hidden value makes the atk do bigger numbers -.-… so you just quote me to answer the same thing as i have write? it seems.
so atk -defense flat value is in fact true, but is not the complete answer to calculate the total damage given by monsters, simple as that.
but since i have answer you, at least for someone who was reading the discussion , you are in fact talking about the end game damage of monsters and how defense would work as we can see by your post in this msg .
and that is wrong but it seems you already know that by now and corrected yourself with this msg writing to me so there is no need to keep going on that route, bye bye.
but just to keep simple, my original msg was to point out the mistaken made by you on that quote above.
Its not about using bigger numbers as an example. I am sure you can see the distinction having 200k hp would have being hit ‘15k (from 5k def)’ as opposed to being hit 5k. Assuming the normal player also has 200k hp but 2k def, having mobs w20k atk would produce a 13vs11 hit to death ratio while having 10k atkwould produce a 40vs25ratio. Going even lower, say 7k atk, you would have a 100vs40 hit ratio.
Using bigger numbers does in fact twists what is being portrayed, assuming ur claim of defense negating damage 1:1 in pve
Defense is a flat reduction, but it’s applied before monster’s natural dmg multiplier.
Monster has 500 “base” atk and 4x multiplier:
Damage on 0 def target = 500 * 4 = 2k dmg
Damage on 300 def target = (500 - 300) * 4 = 800 dmg
So as you can see, 300 def is not only 300 less damage. It all depends on monster’s natural multiplier and usually higher dmg mobs have higher dmg multipliers as well (to balance things out).
If a mob dealt 20k single hit dmg to a 0 def target, it would probably have as high as 10x multiplier, making your defense count 10x more than what you would expect.
There are also a lot of other things to take into factor. Percentage reduction skills such as Guardian Saint (attribute), Resist Elements, Barrier (new attribute), and other stuff reduces the damage before the defense subtraction is made. You also have to consider the plate/leather/cloth weakness/strengths against type of attacks if we’re talking about physical damage, those make a hell of a difference (they are also applied before defense subtractions).
If you ever played a Paladin 3, you’d notice Resist Elements lv 15 with Divine Might feels like a lot more than only 40% damage reduction against elemental atks. Sometimes it can reduce damage by as high as 70% or 80% depending how high your def/mdef is. Def and mdef also become much more important when you have those skills up.
You have to remember some skills, such as Spion Archer’s Spiral Arrow, are also multi-hit skills which make your defense get applied per hit of the skill.
That spiral arrow can deal as much as 10k total dmg on a character with leather and negligible defense, and as little as 6 hits of 1 dmg on a character with cloth (50% pierce dmg reduction) and around “only” 800 defense.
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What. A monster does 20k damage to you, and you have 5k defense. The monster does 15k damage.
That is not the same as saying a monster does 10k damage to you, and you have 5k defense. The monster deals 100% more damage after defense. The monster does 10k damage to you.
They are not the same.
@physicsquests
If you want to use real numbers in the game then you will have to use real values as well. If you have 60k hp, a monster has 3k attack with a 200% common modifier, and you have 700 defense compared to another person with 1.5k defense and 200k hp.
You’d be able to take 9 hits while the other person would be able to take 45 hits.
if you had the same amount of hp you’d be able to take 29 hits. Increasing your defense to the other person without increasing hp only lets you live 16 more hits compared to increasing your hp (20 hits), but they both come together as a pair anyways.
@mrshadowccg
Not once have I said that the monster that did 20k damage was with any multipliers. That’s because I did not use any modifiers to my example, but if you do want an example that does then look above.
Technically, Spiral arrow is a fake multi hit with a 600% modifier, but that’s the same as saying a true multi hit that hits 6 times.
OK KIDS
IM PULLING THE CAR OVER
Seriously though we read this thread to keep up on upcoming changes, please stop this massive squabble, we don’t have time to scroll through 47 random bickering threads to get to the next piece of info.
If you want to argue we have approx. 189,437,932 other threads specializing in that and name calling, thank you.
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Fine. Can I get an ice cream from the ice cream truck before we go to the beach?
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Sigh, ok fine, but don’t tell your mother.
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Here’s some things from new update:
- Apples are gone.
- Sapper got attributes that increase skill damage at increased material cost
- Falconer can now choose to disable Hovering or Sonic Strike for the First Strike skill.
- Apples aren’t actually gone. They got a name/icon change and are now elixirs.
- Elixirs can be traded in for points, 5 per HP elixir, 10 per SP elixir.
- Old costumes can be bought for 258 points.
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lmao. all I can do is hue
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[quote=“azebu95, post:2691, topic:321901”]
-Apples are gone.
-Apples aren’t actually gone. They got a name/icon change and are now elixirs.
-Elixirs can be traded in for points, 5 per HP elixir, 10 per SP elixir.[/quote]
“The players seem to be crying about apples, let’s change(name&icon only) it to something else so they can’t cry about apples anymore.”
muh IMC can’t be this smart
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I might be wrong here, but right now gacha costs 30TP, and you get items worth 30(?) recycle points, maybe more. So if items from gacha eventually make it into recycle shop, it’s not that unfair.
But take that information and move it to other topics, let’s not argue about apples and grapes here.