Tree of Savior Forum

KRtos (class, content) vids & discussion : first post = retiari & onmyouji vids (CLOSED TOPIC BY REQUEST)

Class and Rank
#2659

Because I’m looking at dps. That’s how you mathematically quantify the skills so you can compare. If you want to compare a skill cycle then you add the dps of each skill used in the cycle. You can go over 100 sec or 1000 sec. You get a number that is still dps.

I mean look. 470% x 1.5 (100 atts) x1 (hit) x3 (oh) x2 (ground targets) x2 (lethargy) puts it at 8460 every 17sec. In 170 sec that’s 84600%. In 1700 sec that’s 846,000%. But to compare it to other skills they have to be SF’s over the same amount of time.

So let’s say I’m comparing EQ + MM vs LH spam. 333% + 102% vs 1006% = 435% vs 1006%. If I do the combo I trade 1006% SF to do 435% SF for a net loss of 571% SF.

That’s why I used those numbers in the fireworks combo because the testers have mentioned it uses FB damage instead of PP damage. I divide by 30 because the combo can only be done every 30 sec. The analysis later suggests that the actual dps of the combo will be less than 896% SF/sec when factoring cast times (which is all I really need) because these numbers assume 0 cast time.

The bottom line is, you have to look at all this as estimations. So long as you accept that these estimations will be close but not perfect, you can make relatively close estimations of the outcome.

@nery_ma
Now the argument for actual AoE size only works if you are actually fighting “that many” mobs. Let’s take [flame ground] for example because of its huge new hitbox compared to LH’s small hitbox. Both skills have true AoE and can damage anything inside their respective hitboxes. FG 15’s 125% SF/sec x targets vs LH’s 1006% SF/sec. For every 1 target LH hits, FG needs to hit approximately 8 targets to match. When LH hits 3 (a very common grouping possibility for it’s hitbox) FG needs to hit approximately 24 targets to match. So just to match, you need to find a situation that allows you to lure 24 targets (and only cm comes to mind, something you can do only 1x a day on the same toon). Realistically you can only really get 10 due to mob density nerf, unresponsive AI, and MF’s pull + FP’s 10sec “super” stun. Otherwise you get 8 body pulls (is it still 8?).

Unless maybe you are building a CM toon, sure enough target hits will swing in AoE skill’s favor.

#2660

But if it’s a case of EQ vs Lightning hands, I’d imagine it to be something like:

EQ: (4 sec of casting Earthquakex3 + 1 lethargy )+ 17 sec of Lightning hands during EQ cooldown

Lightning hands only : 21 sec of Lightning hands

In which case, the fair comparison is that 4 seconds of casting earthquake + lethargy instead of lightning hands. If the total SF of (Earthquakex3 + Lethargy) is greater than 4 seconds of Lightning Hands, there is no DPS loss by switching to Earthquake when it’s off cooldown.

But your numbers would definitely apply when calculating % contribution to total DPS over time.

1 Like
#2661

i know, this is why i tried to make clear about it, where i was pointing this as negative effect of lighting hands, and something that should be keep in Mind as your original question was the damage aspect of it in comparison to other builds, so i pointed Out that in AOE situation of it:lighting hands may and would probably lose in damage,because of it’s difficult to increase AOE atk ratio, and now SPR-int and so on depending on the build as well.
i tried to keep this very clear! in my msg’s, this is why i have wrote multiple times AOE ,AOE ,AOE, and the importance of it in the current scenery of TOS, that AOE is becoming far more important than simple single target; to be true if you are not building a farming stand alone character, that is single target, is far more important in TOS to have AOE, this is also why i pointed out, end game set’s like solmiki!.

edit: lighting hands is not true AOE, it can hit more target’s with Aoe ratio set, , you need the aoe ratio to hit more, there is some videos about the use of centaur for lighting hands and so on!.
this is also one of the reasons i pointed out in my previous msg’s as well, Aoe atk ratio is expensive and hard to come by in the new enchanter builds that needs SPR and so on.

#2662

Good point. That would be the issue of burst vs dps though. I don’t have a model to take burst into account yet so all I can compare by is dps over a long period.

OMG I’m gonna have to edit the numbers. Didn’t realize EQ has 3 OH.

Oh wait, its much easier to estimate than I though. If listed SF (t 1sec cast time) > 503% (at 1 atk per sec) then the skill is worth using. Tos.neet shows cast times so I can use em for better estimations.

I’ve had previous responses saying otherwise. Unless that’s part of the new re-balance. I’ve also tried LH with [aiming] (no circling) to hit more than 3 (and I have only 3 AAR).

#2663

What is Dimension Compress SF when fully charge? and it is 3 true multihit?

#2664

KTOS sage deal 17’820% damage full charge Lv5 dimension compression with 1 overheat. Is 5 true hits but boss already died after 3 hits. I review steam server sage here

Yes, I meant to post another video. Well nevermind about it. It was rangee po on new chrono3 farmer (wiz2-thaum2-link2-chrono3)

more KTOS videos
Previous video post here

Wizard3 thauma1 sorc2 warlock3 HG340 here
Featherfoot3 damage test with high weapon vs album boss here
Pyro3 Kino3 shadow2 HG 340 here
More here
Necro testing freeze card frosterlord proc on ‘attack command’ at HG 340 here

3 Likes
#2665

well, i would say otherwise; if they changed it for true aoe; with this rebalance, or recent patch ones ; because at the start there was multiple videos about enchanter and the use of centaur for test’s, but i’m not up to date to all the changes so i do not know if they changed it as well but if they put it in true Aoe now, it removes one of the problems of the need of aoe atk ratio so is a good thing.
but even if LH is true aoe as right now, the comparasion would still stand by, because is harder, if not impossible to group mobs for it, without the use of other classes, where pyro can do this without any problems, and in CM Dg or ET, luring mobs for it’s skills is not harder and fair easy to lure 10 or more too.
in the end the choice is from the player, i’m myself have a full chrono3 enchanter2, as well and really like lightning hands, but for me my main reason is because lightning is the element i like the most, and just that haha, so i do not know if i will endure this spr nerf for chrono :(.

#2666

Lightning hands is best with Damage-Over-Time or Drop and forget skills such as pyromancer skills. So you will briefly interrupt it to cast a skill and resume AA.
If you need sustained damage during a lot of skillspam, pick sorc1 sustained AoE damage with marnox card. Summon keeps attacking and you can cast or channel skills.
If you go skill-rotation-build, you should pick classes carefully to match cooldowns.

The mentioned pyro2-thaum3-sorc1-enchanter2 build is support+both AoE sustained damage and low-aoe sustained damage, but it is not a skill-rotation build.

#2667

do you know the m atk of this guy?

#2668

Yes, it is 10’200

All KTOS live videos have end-game weapon.

#2669

Sadly, but ToS will be never near as good as RO. :tired:

#2670

any news videos about linker after the nerf?

#2671

No video. Linker3 spirit shock attribute does not multiply damage of all magic skills anymore, just itself. Magic def break was also nerfed from 50% to 25%.

#2672

humm, and the amount of spr necessary there is already a definite value behind it?
and spirit chain still buffs the 30% m atk extra?

#2673

Spirit chain attribute depends on skill level. Each spirit chain skill level will give +3% magic damage. No definite value tested yet for the SPR bonus damage attribute on spirit shock.

#2675

Can you find more Corsair videos? How’s it’s state now?

#2676

Nov 23rd, 2017 !!!, this patch will never come to the steam server? I’m dying of anxiety after the first week it was announced, I’m counting the days, I’M ALREADY ON MY LIMIT, I can not wait anymore, why the hell this patch was not implemented to steam server until today?

#2677

(reposting from another topic)

Hello guys, I made a spreadsheet with all copyable clone skills after patches and their respective skill factors.

How to use:

  1. Click “File”
  2. Make a copy in your drive
  3. Edit values there

What to edit:

Things that you should edit:

  • The four tables at the end of the document: Debuffs, Buffs, Critical Rate and Attributes.
  • I made a dropdown list that makes it easy to switch around debuffs / buffs.

Things that you can edit, but is not necessary:

  • Bushin no Jutsu skill level (affects amount of clones)
  • Each individual skill level
  • Enemy critical resistance

Things you shouldn’t edit:

  • Everything else since they’re macroed.

How to read:

The most important value to be read is the “Total Skill Factor”, which represents how much skill factor a skill can dish out before entering cooldown (using all overheats). The “Total” is the sum of both “Self” and “Clones”.

I also kept “Self” and “Clones” skill factors, so you can have an idea of what auxiliary effect is affecting what. As an example, Deeds of Valor is a buff, thus, it will not affect “Clones” skill factor (since clones don’t copy buffs).

I also decided to take into consideration critical hits, since some skills (Moulinet and Double Slash) have attributes affecting critical chance. The effective critical damage is summed with “Total” skill factor. As an example, if a skill has 1000 factor before critical and 50% crit chance with both clones and self, it will have 1000 + (1000 * 50 * 1.5 / 100) = 1750 effective skill factor. Note that Moulinet and Double Slash attributes do not increase clones critical chance (since clones do not copy attributes).

If you wish to use the sheet without the hassle of dealing with effective critical skill factor, just keep all critical chances at 0%.

Important Notes:

  • The sheet is not calculating physical atk in any way. This sheet deals only with skill factors.
  • All skill factors are in % as they are normally.
  • Cleave and Zwercchau might have slight error in the calculated skill factor since the first hit shouldn’t be calculated with Cleave / Zwercchau debuff (but clone hits should).

If there’s any errors in the sheet please let me know so I can fix it.

1 Like
#2678

https://tos-kr.neet.tv/attributes/206014 is there a clear explanation of this? 10% of the dmg the pet deals over the top? 10% of swell arm’s effect? Or 10% of a magically derived number? I’m starting to wonder when I’m seeing vids of thaum/summoner classes…

#2679

Thank, do you have in dept skills description for Ele and Warlock?