Any video from Enchanter 2 + psy 3??
my second main (lol) is pyro2thauma1sorc2necro1(for shogoth)shado2 
this thauma buff is better at thauma2? at 1st circle its like 10% damage?
Cap is 10% bonus summon damage with Swell Left. Thauma2 give +% summon def and magic def (not worth). Thauma1 is sufficient. Thauma3 for more (party) support buffs.
@pinata44 now thereās 1, but is wizard2 and kino2
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Iāve always been thinking of [lightning hands] since the wiz rebalance was announced. Is the damage on any of the pre r8 classes enough to interrupt just AA on an enchanter? For example I recently bought 50 attributes in [magic misslie] cuz āwhy notā and it ended up doing 12k per bolt while [lightning hands] still did over 20k even on a rod shield setup.
hey Grey, that rangee po warlock 3 video is out dated i believe.
i mean, he is strong, but its from oct/17
lol, dat damage tho
lighting hands are without doubt competitive in the current game, it would became worse with the chrono nerf,but would still be able to pull off you have enough and right equips, but the main difference between a lighting hands and other wiz dps like you asked would really be the AOE and of course the ability to maintain it and keep going without the need to worry about cdās but this benefit would vanish once you have enough stronger hit skills to keep a stronger rotation(in a not lighting hands dps wizard build), something that is not harder for most DPS wizards of today so i would say that the main difference would still be focused on AOE because lighting hands can be buffet with aoe ratio but would never be the same as the aoe skills from other wizards, so in the end is this: lighting hands can and will outgrown damage of all rank 1-7 classes(after all is a rank 9 skill), in stand alone scenery; but most really dps classes of 1-7 will be able to outgrown the damage of lighting hands since they would hit sometimes even 10 mobs or more so if we look at the damage made in this case ,lighting hands will loose, and this is very superficial analyze iām doing because once you look at other classes that have skills that can be deployed and keepdoing damage where you do other things like elementalist hail and so on, the situation becomes worse for lighting hands ; so this is it: conclusion for me that is you can PLAY with a lighting hands focused wiz but if you put two wiz; one being lighting hands end game dps wiz x a normal dps wiz at full end game gear, the normal dps one would win(be it boss:ET:farm speed) because it would have far higher AOE damage and even their low level skills; like MM you mentioned would be doing up 30-40k+ damage as well (there is even a video on this post with one doing it) in aoe, and all of their rotation would be doing far harder than lighting hands % with the benefit of going AOE and once you add ranks 8 9 classes all, most dps wizard can do a complete rotation like the ones you saw in this thread, they will just use skills with 1k+ % with AOE.
lighting hands wiz is harder to equip since a perfect lighting hands build, in my opinion; with this chrono nerf , you would need DEX+INT+SPR+CON(if you are thauma-chrono version) in their set, for a truly end game set; where a normal DPS can simple go with their solmiki set and be done with it.
i meant itos serversā¦ XD
was curious abouy it sorryā¦ i shoild have specify my questionā¦
Hey guys, does micro-dimension (sage) copy the new frost pillar?
and if yes, the copy do damage? lol
I heard it does not clone new FrostPillar.
But didnt test that myself yet.
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the guy in the ele3feather3 video has 11k magic attack
Here are just examples:
EQ 15 = 470% x3 (oh) x2 (ground) x2 (lethargy) / 17(cd) = 333% SF/sec
MM 10 = 290% (per bolt) (x2 sleep attribute) x3 (oh) / 17(cd) = 102% SF/sec per bolt
Fireball 15 = 676% x 5(oh) / 8(cd) = 422% SF/sec
Flameground 15 = 196% x16 (hits assuming 2 hits per sec over 8sec) / 25(cd) = 125% SF/sec
Flare 15 = 963% x 3(oh) / 20(cd) = 144% SF/sec
Fire Pillar 10 = 200% x 20 (hits assuming 2 hits per sec over 10sec) / 30(cd) = 133% SF/sec
Hell Breath 5 = 250% x 30 (hits assuming 3 hits per sec over 10sec) / 40(cd) = 187% SF/sec
Psychic Pressure 15 = 469% x 20 (hits assuming 2 hits per sec over 10sec) / 25(cd) = 375% SF/sec
Magnetic Force 10 = 1573% / 25(cd) = 62% SF/sec
āFireworks comboā = 676% (FB) x 20 ( hits assuming 2 hits per sec over 10sec of PP) / 30(FP cd) + 123% (lv1 FP) x 20 (hits assuming 2 hits per sec over 10sec) / 30(cd) + 469% (PP) x 20 (hits assuming 2 hits per sec over 10sec) / 30(FP cd) + 1573% (MF) / 30(FP cd)= 450% + 82% + 312% + 52%= 896% SF/sec
āLightning pillar comboā = 123% (lv1 FP) x 20 (hits assuming 2 hits per sec over 10sec) / 30(cd) + 503% x2 (hits assuming decent ping for 2 atk per sec) + 1573% (MF) / 30(FP cd)= 82% + 1006% + 52% = 1140% SF/sec
With a variable of atk speed letās look at how slow we have to be to match āFireworksā.
82% + 52% + 503% x (hits per sec) = 896%
hits per sec = 1.5
These are just some of the things Iāve looked at to try and justify not going enchanter for [lightning hands]. I really want pyro to āwork outā for me because I (really) like fire.
Oh hey,Thara Frog Card is back baby.
(Iāll never stop calling out everytime when ToS get closer and closer to being just RO, fight me if u dislike it).
Me, my friends, and brother all refer to TOS as ādefiantly not ragnarokā and the upcoming castle system is ādefiantly not woeā etc
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Hope you donāt mind me asking, but why did you choose to divide your skill factors by the skill cooldowns when comparing their SF/sec against lightning hands? Iād assume that dividing the total multiplied SF by the cooldowns would simulate a scenario where the skill is casted, and then nothing else is done in the remaining time that the skill is on cooldown; that extra time could be spent using lightning hands.
Not sure about cast times or SF components of wizard skillsā¦but take earthquake for example,
SF * no. of hits * (1 + enhance attribute * 0.005) * (1 + modifiers) * casts/duration spent casting
470 * 1 * (1 + 100 * 0.005) * (1 + 1 + 0.5) * 3 / 4 = approx 1300 SF/s (assuming earthquakes cast in 1s, with 1 added second for casting lethargy)
Itās not much stronger than Lightning Hands, but in this comparison, itās worth casting earthquake when itās off cooldown.
Donāt really get the modifiers in the fireworks combo, but it might be a little stronger than represented.
maybe i have not explained well enough, but the difference i was talking about was not simple the number of hits, but the possibility for hitting a lot of monsters and thus the difference came to be , since by hitting more monsters you do more damage and this is the biggest flaw of lighting hands because is harder to make it hit multiple mobs!; this is why i pointed out the aoe possibility ; where lighting hands is without doubt competitive in a overall situation of tos like i wrote before, once you take in consideration the number of enemies that you can HIT with lighting hands that is more or less 6 max with a top notch aoe atk ratio set (without the use of linker) it is nothing if you compare with most aoe skills so in the end lighting hands loses some of itās overall utility since the game have multiple AOE type content and as DPS skill it needs to be evaluate for that as well , iām gonna take some of your examples and try to explain:
iām gonna use 10 as luring limit and pyro skills since you mentioned it , since is a fair easy number to achieve but keep in mind that you can have far more than that in given situation:
flame ground: would become 1250%sf sec
firepillar: 1330sfsec
hellbreath: 1870sfsec
the firework combo for example : there is no limit of mobs that you can hit so you can easily work out numbers far greater than 8960% sf sec if you lure multiple mobs.
those are the basic Pyro skills sf sec, once you consider the AOE possibility of those skills ; of course it can have more or less mobs in the pull, so the situation would become better or worse, and thus would overall influence would vary but i believe that Pyro skills should be able to outgrown lighting hands without problems in Aoe situation.
letās also all remember we are talking about pyro against a rank 8 classes, so at lower AOE scenery for pyro skills, it would still be harder to match lighting hands, after all the rank difference is just too big but as overall aspect in CMās or ET that is AOE content, Pyro will outgrown lighting hands without doubt.
letās also remember that Lighting hands can hit more mobs as well, but iām not gonna enter in details about it, since iām not here to do a in deep analyze with numbers and so on because iām not in this type of tos anymore but we also does not need to go too deep to see the flaw that lighting hands posses and this is why iām was trying to convey in my previous msg and in this one since mobbing in this game is also a very important aspect; with ET , CM, and so on, so when you talk about having lighting hands as Main dps char, those aspects needs to be keep in mind.
so again the final conclusion is: pyro as rank 2-4 would offer a very good amount of AOE damage, allowing his damage to grown the higher the number of mobs in the scene and may surpass lighting hands it can also have the opportunity to grown as single damage as Well , because you can laid on his skills and move on to others, flame ground firewall; fire pillars too, where where lighting hands would have a very hard limiting factor be with AOE atk ratio set to do mobbing and try to close the gap or as stand alone 1x1 DPS, because where pyro allows you to use their skills and move on (to use other ranks skills) lighting hands need to be casted without stopping.
Because Iām looking at dps. Thatās how you mathematically quantify the skills so you can compare. If you want to compare a skill cycle then you add the dps of each skill used in the cycle. You can go over 100 sec or 1000 sec. You get a number that is still dps.
I mean look. 470% x 1.5 (100 atts) x1 (hit) x3 (oh) x2 (ground targets) x2 (lethargy) puts it at 8460 every 17sec. In 170 sec thatās 84600%. In 1700 sec thatās 846,000%. But to compare it to other skills they have to be SFās over the same amount of time.
So letās say Iām comparing EQ + MM vs LH spam. 333% + 102% vs 1006% = 435% vs 1006%. If I do the combo I trade 1006% SF to do 435% SF for a net loss of 571% SF.
Thatās why I used those numbers in the fireworks combo because the testers have mentioned it uses FB damage instead of PP damage. I divide by 30 because the combo can only be done every 30 sec. The analysis later suggests that the actual dps of the combo will be less than 896% SF/sec when factoring cast times (which is all I really need) because these numbers assume 0 cast time.
The bottom line is, you have to look at all this as estimations. So long as you accept that these estimations will be close but not perfect, you can make relatively close estimations of the outcome.
@nery_ma
Now the argument for actual AoE size only works if you are actually fighting āthat manyā mobs. Letās take [flame ground] for example because of its huge new hitbox compared to LHās small hitbox. Both skills have true AoE and can damage anything inside their respective hitboxes. FG 15ās 125% SF/sec x targets vs LHās 1006% SF/sec. For every 1 target LH hits, FG needs to hit approximately 8 targets to match. When LH hits 3 (a very common grouping possibility for itās hitbox) FG needs to hit approximately 24 targets to match. So just to match, you need to find a situation that allows you to lure 24 targets (and only cm comes to mind, something you can do only 1x a day on the same toon). Realistically you can only really get 10 due to mob density nerf, unresponsive AI, and MFās pull + FPās 10sec āsuperā stun. Otherwise you get 8 body pulls (is it still 8?).
Unless maybe you are building a CM toon, sure enough target hits will swing in AoE skillās favor.
But if itās a case of EQ vs Lightning hands, Iād imagine it to be something like:
EQ: (4 sec of casting Earthquakex3 + 1 lethargy )+ 17 sec of Lightning hands during EQ cooldown
Lightning hands only : 21 sec of Lightning hands
In which case, the fair comparison is that 4 seconds of casting earthquake + lethargy instead of lightning hands. If the total SF of (Earthquakex3 + Lethargy) is greater than 4 seconds of Lightning Hands, there is no DPS loss by switching to Earthquake when itās off cooldown.
But your numbers would definitely apply when calculating % contribution to total DPS over time.
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i know, this is why i tried to make clear about it, where i was pointing this as negative effect of lighting hands, and something that should be keep in Mind as your original question was the damage aspect of it in comparison to other builds, so i pointed Out that in AOE situation of it:lighting hands may and would probably lose in damage,because of itās difficult to increase AOE atk ratio, and now SPR-int and so on depending on the build as well.
i tried to keep this very clear! in my msgās, this is why i have wrote multiple times AOE ,AOE ,AOE, and the importance of it in the current scenery of TOS, that AOE is becoming far more important than simple single target; to be true if you are not building a farming stand alone character, that is single target, is far more important in TOS to have AOE, this is also why i pointed out, end game setās like solmiki!.
edit: lighting hands is not true AOE, it can hit more targetās with Aoe ratio set, , you need the aoe ratio to hit more, there is some videos about the use of centaur for lighting hands and so on!.
this is also one of the reasons i pointed out in my previous msgās as well, Aoe atk ratio is expensive and hard to come by in the new enchanter builds that needs SPR and so on.
Good point. That would be the issue of burst vs dps though. I donāt have a model to take burst into account yet so all I can compare by is dps over a long period.
OMG Iām gonna have to edit the numbers. Didnāt realize EQ has 3 OH.
Oh wait, its much easier to estimate than I though. If listed SF (t 1sec cast time) > 503% (at 1 atk per sec) then the skill is worth using. Tos.neet shows cast times so I can use em for better estimations.
Iāve had previous responses saying otherwise. Unless thatās part of the new re-balance. Iāve also tried LH with [aiming] (no circling) to hit more than 3 (and I have only 3 AAR).