Tree of Savior Forum

Knowledge on rogues and fletchers needed!

Class and Rank Archer
#1

Alright guys, I’m trying to make a new type of world boss killing archer that has not been seen before! No really, it looks good but I need some opinions and knowledge to make sure I’m not making a mistake.

Build is Archer 1 -> ranger 3 -> rogue 1 -> fletcher 2.

I have reasons to believe that the barrage into feint is going to be improving one’s dps by extraordinaey numbers, and since its a quick burst it will leave us plenty of time to do that fletcher damage. Basically a guildie of mine does easy 300k damage with a quick combo of that with 70 in barrage attribute and gear not made for crit damage but rather elemental atk, which means with a different equip and even more invested into it, one will be able to reach even higher numbers. Thats not even counting the fact that sneak hit will improve fletchers damage tremendously as well as capture will provide me the ability to negate some of warlock damage to ensure the cube falls into my hands.

The questions are:
Q: sneak hit critical chance does not add to crit rate, right? Is it as stated, critical chance?
A: sneak hit fixes the base critical at the rate that the skill states, does not add crit rate.

Q: other then magic arrow, which skills are best for world bossing? I was thinking of having bleed on there for additional tick damage that I wont have to spend time on but Im open to opinions.

Q: explosive arrow or the 3x hit on cloth one?

Any other knowledge about fletcher/rogue/ ranger welcome! Thanks im advance!

#2

Sneak hit raise your crit chance to x %, so yep, no crit atk added :wink:

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#3

Crit rate you mean? Thanks for input!

#4

You’re not going to negate any of warlock or ele3 damage as capture will not work since 1. they are not your ally, but if they are you probably shouldn’t capture their skills away 2. they are not your enemy (not in pvp mode)

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#5

Since when does capture work only for allies and enemies? As far as my rogue friend informed me, he could capture random people’s circles just cause he liked them, but I might have the wrong information, will have to ask him later.

#6

Then you have to ask your friend again, because not only does it say that in its description but i’m a rouge player as well so i can testify for that.

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#7

Will do, he’s not online just now. Is the limit 15 circles/ traps regardless of level of capture or is it tied to the level of the skill now?

At the very least I will be able to boost my dps further by stealing an allied warlock’s circles and change them to my dps instead of his, still quite a lot of damage potential.

Thanks for the input btw!

#8

its bugged at the moment so lvl 1 does the same thing as lvl 5 or 10 or 15. Just imagine you are taking a snapshot of the area, its a copy and paste skill if i have to describe it.

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#9

I call 300k damage on barrage bullshi.t. I think you’re meant to say 30k dmg which is more plausible.

As for whether it’s worth it or not, I would say no. You lose 5 lv in magic arrow and nothing can compensate for that.

#10

10k crit per arrow x 10 arrows x3 barrages. Its not bullshit its a fact.

#11

Im not asking if its worth it, that can be at most an opinion unless you have both and experencied it first hand.

Can you instead answer the fletcher questions if you feel like you have the knowledge to partake in that?

#12

There’s a hidden thing you have to optimize for, and it’s part of the reason Fletchers are so good at world bosses right now. Lag, and huge FPS drops ( around 3-5 FPS expected ). Passive damage dealing rules at world bossing because of this. Place down an AoE, or apply a DOT, and it’ll do full damage regardless of how bad you’re lagging. If you’re trying to pull off other skill rotations, it will be far less effective because of how slow you’ll end up applying damage with active skills. It’s a sad truth.

For this reason Wugushi are also really good at world bosses, except one big problem - any other Wugushi can overwrite your poison with their own poison. I have no clue why this is the case, and I think IMC should change it back ASAP.

In any case, look at the difference between magic arrow 5 and magic arrow 10. The base damage is increased by almost double, and the number of hits goes from 15 -> 25. That’s so huge by itself, that even if you were to auto-crit on every magic arrow 5, it wouldn’t be enough to make up for not having magic arrow 10. Also, it’s your only assured full DPS ( besides broadhead bleed, which I believe has the same problem as Wugushi where it’s overwritten by other Fletchers ), whereas other active skill combos damage potential will be hindered by low FPS / lag.

You’re also pretty much forced to optimize around this one skill, because of its duration and cooldown. Every 5 seconds you can throw down the magic arrow which lasts 10 seconds, and it will keep stacking with itself.

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#13

I understand, that is also what I proposed for a swordsman change in cathexis’s swordsman feedback to the devs thread.

The damage you can just lay on the floor and not worry about it is amazing, though I dont exactly lag on world bosses anymore. I used to when there were 40 people doing them each time but with the amount that I’ve seen last time I did a dullahan which was around 15 - it wasnt bad at all.

Now I understand how the game works and what does that mean for a fletcher who can spam skills, it means that the spam will not even be half as effective. Lets calculate it though. If I manage to pull of the barrage combo lets say in a matter of 4 seconds, thats 75k dps after which I still have a base crit chance of 70% from behind, I stack the same as any other fletcher magic arrows, in addition however if my party is composed well I also pick up a lot of circles with a bit of coordination and drop them to further my damage. And after 25 seconds I can do the barrage combo again, while stacking the magic arrows, putting bleed on and doing the exploding shot while not doing anything else.

What am I not getting? Magic arrow level 10. I do have magic arrow level 5 though which will deal a fair share, and if its able to crit on an almost full str build due to sneak attack then the damage wont be super far off between that and a normal fletcher’s level 10. We’ll be talking about maybe 15k every 5 seconds of damage. Difference being I do 300k every 25 seconds and the other fletcher would only get ahead by 75k. Thats without counting capture bonus and crits on exploding shot

I agree, the base idea is different and is really ping and fps dependant. I might be shafting myself over, but its fine I’m willing to experiment.

Any chance you can help me out with fletcher skills?

#14

In a scenario that let’s say every single skill you cast hits, the enemy is always facing in the opposite direction and both builds has 0% base crit chance.

Ranger C3 + Fletcher C3 Build

Lv10 Magic Arrow
100%+1139 per tick, 25 ticks = 2500%+28475
5s cooldown = 500%+5695 raw dps

Lv15 Barrage
100%+543 per hit, 5 hits per cast,
3 charges = 15 hits = 1500%+8145
Technically 21s cooldown due to casting animation = 71%+387 raw dps

Lv5 Spiral Arrow
100%+180 per tick, 6 hits per cast
2 charges = 12 hits = 1200%+2160
Technically 38s cooldown due to casting animation = 32%+56 raw dps

= 603%+6138 total dps

Ranger C3 + Fletcher C2 + Rogue C1 Build

Lv5 Magic Arrow
100%+684 per tick, 15 ticks = 1500%+10260
5s cooldown = 300%+2052 raw dps

Feint+Lv15 Barrage
100%+543 per hit, 5 hits per cast, 3 charges = 15 hits,
With Feint = 30 hits = 3000%+16290
Technically has 25s cooldown = 120%+651 raw dps

Lv5 Sneak Hit
70% crit chance = Technically, 35% DPS increase w/o considering crit atk values and it’s 10s downtime.

*= (420%+2703)1.35 = 567%+3649 total dps

Of course modifiers per sec is easy to compare while the fixed damage per sec isn’t. I’ll make it more simple, let’s just say both has 1800 patk base damage.

Then it will become,

6138/1800 = 3.41 which translates to 341%
3649/1800 = 2.03 which translates to 203%

TLDR;

Final comparison, measurement = modifier, base damage at 1800 patk,

603%+341% = 944% total dps for 1st build
versus
567%+203% = 770% total dps for 2nd build

DPS Difference: 22.5%

Note: Capture is not factored in but it has the potential to close the gap or even outdamage the 1st build in some scenarios.

Edit: I forgot to factor in Lv5 Steady Aim and Lv15 Steady Aim.

Steady Aim only has a 40% uptime.
Lv5 = 10%.4 = technically 4% dps increase
Lv15 = 20%.4 = technically 8% dps increase

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#15

It appears your dps calculations for magic arrow is wrong? Unless I am mistaken, you should divide it by 10 seconds instead of 5 because casting another while one is active does not stack, it simply refreshes it.

I know you mentioned this but your calculations did not factor in damage from crit atk. The difference between the first and second build will require the r3f3 to invest points in dex and gear for crit-rate, whereas the rogue build can invest heavily in str and have more flexibility in terms of gearing to maximize crit atk. The difference in Dps resulting from the extra crit attack can be significant, considering there are so many ‘ticks’ of damage from magic arrow and feint+barrage, crit atk is also pure damage and not mitigated by defence, thus it should not be ignored. Granted, I know doing all this math is tedious so thank you for being the hero we need.

Also, “Lv5 Sneak Hit
70% crit chance = Technically, 35% DPS increase w/o considering crit atk values and it’s 10s downtime” – Sorry can you explain how you came up with this value of 135% to a math noob.

Other than that, interesting idea OP. I’d like to see this build in action. You can only get so far doing calculations and crunching numbers. You might be on to something, who knows. Try it out!

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#16

Thanks for the rundown! I imagine for a class 8 if nothing better emerges rogue would be a great way to complement the boss killing build while at the same time fletcher 3 looks great for the rogue 1 build.

Considering your number crunch, depending on rogues party composition it might be fletcher 3’s win or a rogues. However, as silver is invested into the skills, it feels like the scale will heavily tip towards fletcher 3.

When it comes to fletcher skills, which ones would be most beneficial to take when it comes to boss killing and also just doing pve content?

#17

You don’t calculate it that way even if it just refreshes. Magic Arrow ticks at .25s intervals. Considering you can only refresh it, the hit limit of 25 becomes irrelevant.

So within 1s, it has already done 4 ticks. Meaning it will be stuck with 400%+4556 dps even at Lv10.

Although I think I saw a video where Magic Arrow can stack. https://youtu.be/Sna5WO7swtE?t=45s This link should start at :45, it’s really easy to see that the 1 damage tick became faster when another Magic Arrow was shot.

Granted that the default critical damage is +50% damage and your chance of doing crits is 70%. You basically multiply 50% by 70% = 50%*.7 = 35%.

The same formula with 100% crit chance, 50%*1 = 50%.

Not really. Attributes are all multiplicative so there’s really no difference. Once both builds has their attributes at Lv100, then their theoretical DPS will both be multiplied by 2.

944%*2 = 1888%
770%*2 = 1540%

DPS Difference: 22.5%, nothing changed.

I think maxed Crossfire and Magic Arrow are staple. I haven’t done the math on which other skill is more worth it :v

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#18

What? Are you seriously saying it does 40 ticks over 10 seconds? I was under the impression it was limited to 25 ticks over 10 seconds, according to Tosbase.

Attack: 1139
Attribute Damage: 0%
Duration: 10 seconds
Attack Count: 25
Consumes 1 Magic Arrow

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#19

OMG … I’m just saying that taking the 25 hit limit into account is useless if it just refreshes.

Example: If I cast Lv10 Magic Arrow and it did 20 ticks within 5s as intended then I re-cast, since you said it just refreshes then the 25 hit limit becomes irrelevant and the new magic arrow will take over doing the same dps.

But that’s just considering Magic Arrow actually just refreshes itself upon recast which is not the case. It does not refreshes itself. So if you still can’t comprehend my explanation above, just forget about it because it does not refresh.

And no, it does not do 25 ticks within a span of 10s. The lifespan of Magic Arrow itself is just 10s but the tick interval is independent, it has it’s own timer which is .25s per tick.

So it’s possible for a Magic Arrow to disappear within 6s and .25s if the enemy took all hits since it was released because it already managed to land it’s 25 hit limit.

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#20

LOL, ok dude. Forgive me for just clarifying because the skill tooltip from Tosbase LITERALLY states: 25 hits, duration: 10 seconds. How the heck am i supposed to know it actually does 40? The hell is wrong with you? If I had a fletcher i wouldn’t even bother asking and just test it out myself.

OMG

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