Tree of Savior Forum

Killstealing allowed? Anti-social player behavior

General Discussion
#81

Well, yeah. Of course I have. It is extremely frustrating to have to deal with killstealers. How many Rangers have I had to deal with spamming Barrage, literally to steal two mobs from my Wizard C2? Or when I have enemies linked together and there’s a Barbarian ready to use Seism and take all the credit for enemies I had been attacking.

These people have no respect and are seemingly baffled when people don’t approve of their behavior. It’s obviously a new generation of gamers. You know what I do when my Magic Missle accidentally hits a Cleric/Priests mobs? I take a second to say in chat, “My bad. Sorry.” and I’ll try and stay away from that character to avoid messing up their own progress again. What would these killstealers do? Nothing. They would just continue killing, maybe even wait for the Cleric/Priest to soften up a few enemies before taking theirs again. That’s sick.

Now here comes a topic calling out these degenerates and the killstealers have a problem. These people, yourself included, don’t even have the courage to say their team name or server. They’re happily admit to killstealing but would rather not known as being killstealers. I wonder why?

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#82

My guess would be less than ten. Very likely less than five even. I play on Orsha and I encountered only one such a case during my C1 and C2 wizard. And I can’t remember if he was actually some melee class or archer. And he stopped doing it in less than two minutes or so. My heart wasn’t left utterly scarred and my life ruined because of it, luckily.

Unless you deliberately went ahead and tried to hog too many mobs on some player dense area with your C2 wizard, you didn’t have time to encounter any significant amount of killstealing rangers ruining your day and make you all bitter about it.

#83

I’m not a killstealer and implying that everyone that opposes your argument is somehow a degenerate, especially when all your posts are riddled with ad hominem attacks, isn’t going to help your position.

What a surprise, though, you’ve made an excuse for why you should be allowed to treat others like garbage, I didn’t see that coming.

Now you’re actively trying to encourage others to give out their in-game information so they can be bullied.

What exactly about you is so much better than people just out to finish their quests in-game?

#84

Killstealing is rampant enough that people notice it and complain. You certainly can’t speak for my experience with Rangers, Barbarians and Cataphracts. It is extremely common, to the point where whenever I run into another player while killing anything, I expect it and it happens a lot of the time.

@DavidHaller Why would they be bullied? You can’t killsteal because you don’t own mobs, remember? So why would anyone bully someone over trying to complete their quests? The fact that you are worried about this, already shows that you know it is wrong to killsteal or at the very least know that a lot of people think it is wrong. However you won’t post your information, no killstealer will because it’s pretty much letting the community know that this person is not one to party with and is one to killsteal on site.

People are very happy to killsteal but when there is a chance for some kind of accountability, they aren’t quite as eager.

2 Likes
#85

I don’t even know why you’re allowed to keep your account after some of the stuff you’ve said on here.

You’re actually trying to rally a bunch of like-minded people so that you can actively pursue and grief other players because they wanted to finish their quests and you thought you owned X amount of mobs.

The fact that I’m worried about this has nothing to do with whether or not killstealing is wrong and everything to do with a bunch of fanatical people trying to enact their own version of “vigilante justice” by mistreating other players.

I’ve already said that I’m not a killstealer and you can’t even seem to understand that much because you’re so brainwashed by your own ideology.

3 Likes
#86

It’s kill-stealing because they’re entitled to those mobs, because they say they’re entitled to them. That’s what a sense of self-entitlement does, makes you feel entitled to things that you aren’t entitled to.

So, what your saying here is that all mobs are open to all players even when engaged by other players?

So, based on this logic all your mobs are not yours. I can kill any mob you touch because they never belong to you. I can do this repeatedly until your xp gain is 0 per hour and any complaint against this would make you “entitled” and “subhuman”.

I am sure Rubiss would love to test your theory with you. You two should definitely get together and test this.

Obvious troll post when you use faulty logic and say anyone who disagrees is “entitled”, “subhuman”,"-ssholes", or “dipsh-ts”.

#87

Let me tell you what kill steal is using a RL example.

Kill steal is like when you go to work every day for one month… then your salary comes and when you’re about to get it… someone else comes and rob it from you.

It’s really just the same thing only in a much faster way:

you find an enemy-> you start attacking it-> while you’re attacking it, action that should reward you with exp and/or items, someone else comes an oneshot the enemy you were hitting -> you don’t get what you deserve while the “robber” gets it instead.

Making it simpler: you put efford into an activity in order to get a reward… someone else come and steal your reward.

This is “Kill Steal”, and if this wasn’t a video game well… Killstealers would be punished by society for the very same behavior.

If we’re talking about someone beeing into one area surrounded by mobs and BEFORE he actually start attacking someone else comes and kill everything… i’ll never consider it Kill Steall… never… because there was absolutly no effort put into a kill from the player that gets nothing.

Kill Steal is when someone is actually ALREADY fighiting an enemy and such enemy is stolen from him.

So yeah, KS is a BAD thing no matter how you try to put it… unless you want to tell me that if someone comes and take your salary of your hands after you worked for it it’s actually a good thing and you’ll be happy.

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#88

I’m not trying to rally anyone. Not once did I say anything about finding these people and attacking them. That’s you projecting. All I’m saying is that unlike the killstealers, I have no problem posting my in-game name right here, right now. You know why? I have nothing to be ashamed and have no done nothing in-game to be judged poorly. I never killsteal. If I do, I always apologize. I am courteousness and fair. I’ll even use Joint Penalty to help someone secure some kills on their mob if I am passing by.

No killstealer will post their name because they are aware that people frown upon their actions. I, on the other hand, will post my name as I see fit because I have nothing to be ashamed of.

@svalinn85 I wouldn’t bother. He has been defending killstealers for the majority of this thread and I believe the other one where someone wanted to report them. He sees nothing wrong with killstealing and doesn’t even believe it to be a thing. You will go nowhere with him on this topic.

#89

This isn’t faulty logic, because what you’re saying is true.

They aren’t my mobs regardless of how much damage I do to them or if I’m engaged to them or if I bought them a dress and asked them to go out with me, etc…

You can do it repeatedly, intentionally, for as long as you like.

But then this is no longer about killstealing, it’s about griefing.

There’s a difference between players moving to the same area to finish the same quests on the same mobs and competing over those mobs so that they can move on and following someone around to intentionally ruin their gaming experience and piss them off.

Complaining about killstealing doesn’t make you “subhuman,” it makes you entitled. Why? Because you’re acting entitled to things that don’t belong to you. Very simple concept.

“Subhuman, assholes, dipshits,” these are terms that they’re using to describe people who disagree with them not the other way around.

Maybe you should keep up with the conversation if you’re going to participate in it.

1 Like
#90

Well then… i really would like to know where he works… or will work… cause i’m so going to get my hands on his money xD xD

#91

You’re taunting me to give out my information from in-game so that people can actively grief me on account of you thinking that I’m a killstealer.

Exactly what I just accused you of doing.

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#92

No it isn’t. Someone killing a mob or two accidentally or because one group of mobs forms a nice and dense area for aoe, and few happens to be just auto attacked by you doesn’t count because from C3 onwards mobs die from just one skill usually, so no one’s precious time is wasted for more than few seconds most. These people would just move on and kill the next dense area when their CD wears off.

Or is this the problem you’re all complaining about on forum?

If you’re one of those who stops to QQ and starts following around when someone kills a mob you were planning on killing next, then the problem is on your side, in my opinion. You have to choose your targets in a way that you’re able to actually attack before someone else does. Simple auto attacking and spending half a minute just gathering your group of mobs to maximize the amount you’ll kill on a single skill isn’t really nice or considerate to others. And it’s also waste of your time too. Still I’ve seen some people doing this on every mmorpg I’ve played.

If you claim actual killstealing happens to you all the time, I demand proofs for it. Start recording videos for the next week and upload them on youtube or something. And if you’re going to stage them up with your friends, you can be sure you’ll get caught later and I’ll get a slight giggle before I move on after saying ‘okay’ out loud :grin:

#93

Your comparison is off. The kill stealing would be more like the competition of available job places. If someone else is faster to contact the company about the job offer and gets the job, or if someone works faster at your company and delivers the results before you and gets promoted instead of you, then it would be closer to situation of kill stealing. And yes, these happen in real life and they aren’t illegal activities usually. You often get paid for the results, not for the amount of effort you put to get them.

Your robbing of salary would be more to akin that you just killed the mob but someone else would use some unfair method to steal the drops and your exp. And yes, this wouldn’t be okay in game either.

Edit:

@naos.stulos

Erm, you think your “logical induction” would actually convince anyone? Putting words to someone else’s mouth and using scarecrow fallacies isn’t really nice argumenting, you know? :disappointed:

#94

Tell me the truth: do a lot of people actually tell you that you’re dumb?

Competition for available work places means that either has not started to work yet… and it’s easely compared with “the two players entered the same area”.

Once one of the actually start hitting an enemy, it’s “working” already… and since it’s working… he’s got to get payed.

2 Likes
#95

Two views on your statements:

1 The “Its a Game” Persepective

ToS is a game, it’s entertainment. Its business model is to provide entertainment to a user for a price. If you as a user impede another users use of the game so that its basic function is impeded, IE: taking away the ability to grow through gaining xp, then you are actively engaging in an act that is mean to destroy the business model. Hence IMC has a right as a company to punish you for your actions. Too many people doing this will shut a game down and they have a right to put a stop to it.

2 The “Moral” perspective

Since you are defending such actions it then paints you as morally approving of said actions. Because you keep defending the core reason of KSing with examples and justification it projects your moral view on how you treat other people around you in life. This alone will garner most of the opposition you have found. If you were RPing a bad guy in game you could use the “I’m not really a bad guy, its just RP” defense. But your not, you are revealing your moral stance that the “golden rule” is not something you personally ascribe to. This changes the conversation from a game topic to a moral one, which is where it now is.

Your actions in word and deed always reflect upon you, no matter the forum: In life, in game, in blog.

If you want to debate on whether or not respect and gentleness to others is necessary or beneficial to all involved I suggest it be taken to a different forum or debate other than a MMO message board.

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#96

Countering a point with "would actually convince anyone? " is not a counter. It is considered a fail response by any formal debate moderator.

Insults and childishness were by OP. I was repeating them to show the hypocrisy of the statement.

Your example is incorrect, using the base core of logic in a statement to prove it is not sound logic is basic debate technique. Putting words in his mouth would be fabricating something he did not say as if he did.

Old rule on debate: When a side is reduced to personal attacks and name calling, they are essentially admitting defeat.
It also is contrary to your earlier argument “(omitted some unnecessary insults and childish threatening)” making you a hypocrite.

#97

1 ) This argument doesn’t apply to your position because your position is that YOUR enjoyment of the game is more important than another player’s enjoyment of the same game. We’re not talking about griefing people, we’re talking about people “killstealing” or fighting over mobs so that they, too, can level and finish their quests.

2 ) I’m defending the notion that you do not own things you do not own. Again, very simple concept that you all seem to keep overlooking so that you can continue your rants and judge others. If I were RP’ing a bad guy and you used that as a means to assert that I am, in real life, a bad person, then that’s a sign of your own ignorance and prejudices not a reflection of poor character on my part.

I’m not going to hold you, personally, accountable for what practically everyone you’re defending has done in all of these threads.

But maybe you want to share your compassion or the importance of “respect” with your like-minded peers so that they don’t spend the majority of their posts ridiculing everyone who disagrees with them before you preach to me about it.

#98

You might come tell me that again once you start working yourself :slight_smile:

There’s no point trying to make rude people like you to admit anything, I think you’re not mature enough for that. I just wanted to point out your incorrect comparison to other readers of this thread.

Nice projecting there again. How about taking a bit more objective stance to support your arguments? I see you’re trying to defend morals, gnetleness and manners, while not showing much of these yourself.

You know, you can discuss about matters and bring up different opinions and still stay civil about it. Or at least somewhat civil, I know I sometimes like to hint I’m suspecting I’m discussing with a child when his behaviour somehow makes me think this is likely the case. I don’t actually care anyone’s real age but I respect mature manners. And so should you rascals on this forum who keep insulting everyone who has different opinion than yours.

#99

yeah man… you’re right… thanks for bestowing upon me your infinite wisdom and truth cause you’ve made me a better man… and i was so patethic before…really, i mean it.

#100

Please cite examples to back your accusation.

I agree with you 100% on this.
Debating the merits of one perspective is open however.
Just because someone has a point of view that is in direct contrast to another does not mean they are correct or entitled to that view.
IE: the top topic in world chat, racism

I see no problem with debating that in a manner you have stated in the above quote.