Tree of Savior Forum

I've now realized what is by far the biggest turn off for this game

General Discussion
#41

dude what was so hard to understand about not wanting to use rogues anymore cause you’re down to three werewolf cards that take away the ability to use other interesting purple cards? The great thing about rogue was the near 100% crit rate from any direction even after the stats revamp but the new card system took that away

EDIT: Btw PSO2 gave away a ton of tree resets (since I noticed you have a rappy avatar). I’ve stopped playing in the japanese server for around 4 months now but even before all the major class balance changes they’re doing now I have like 40+ tree resets in stock and they’re giving away even more. Are you still gonna insist that ToS is generous? Even then you can freely change main and subclasses any time and even have multiple skill trees for each one. THAT’S how you make a class system that doesn’t make you start over when you want to change things

3 Likes
#42

But what about the minor changes? IMC are known to do ninja patches. This shouldn’t happen. Even if it’s just minor cooldown changes it should always be accompanied by a note and a full reset because someone might have been relying on that skill in their rotation. If they don’t want to throw resets around then just compile the changes into one big patch. Also, I just remembered but one reset per team is bullshit. It should be one per character.

5 Likes
#43

…so you’re sad they nerfed the ability to have 100% crit rate at all times. You somehow think that was balanced and are angry they didn’t give you a free rank reset cause you lost like 20% crit rate ONLY when you don’t attack enemies from behind.

…okay. Sure.

Also, no one is forcing you to use Werewolf cards. Don’t use them if you want to use other purple cards. They aren’t required by any means.

PSO2 did give out a lot of tree resets (maybe like 10 total so far?) but that was mostly because they redo the format of the skill tree heavily or when they did major nerfs. We have gotten a few rank resets, but nothing has changed so much to justify more. Even the example you gave is a very minor nerf. Not even a gameplay style change, not even breaking the class, but a minor DPS loss. Rogue still has insane critical rate and all it did was sometimes lower the DPS dealt by the class because it was OP. Oh no.

Rogue is still good.

“Ninja patches?” They announce a whole lot of stuff ahead time, but everything else you can easily tell because people always post the changes going on kTest and then kLive. What else do you expect them to do? Not even other games post every little tiny skill/cd change ahead of patch day. IMC has also basically avoided nerfing anything because it would ruin people’s builds.

I still haven’t gotten any good examples of nerfs that would actually justify a rank reset.

#44

ever consider that having your 80% “front-backstab” rate be reduced to 30% count as enough to warrant a play style change? It’s a minor nerf? That it made me want to play a different class and that I did end up rerolling to a different main still does not make it a big deal for YOU? This is also just one of many other examples I’ve listed, don’t nitpick on this and look at the bigger picture.

Get this to your thick head, any change done by IMC deserves a chance for players to adjust without having to start over. You keep spouting crap like “they can still deal with it” but the bottom line is less fun = less fun. You also need to get off your high horse that makes you think what’s fine for you is fine for everyone else and that they’re all just whining. A lot of disappointed people just straight up skipped whining to quit, and more are quitting everyday as they realize how horrible the management of itos is. Not everyone is the greatest (most gullible) customer that can sing praises to the very minimal effort they put in to keep the game running.

5 Likes
#45

The population can drop to 100 and whiteknights still won’t understand this.

2 Likes
#46

yeah cause they’re still having fun and they can keep the game alive I suppose.

2 Likes
#47

Loooooool… Rogue was OP.
White knighting is one thing, but you should save us some random bullshit. There are so many errors in the Rogue class that you should feel embarrassed by your own words.

But I imagine that thousands of ppl that stopped playing are all wrong: the game is lots of fun, it’s just that all of them can’t understand it.
In fact, we have countless balanced builds that can fight to win the DPS race, and not just 3.
We have a solid crafting system: playing Alche or Squire is SO fun.
We have incredible end game content and a repetition of itself.
We have incredible satisfaction at crafting our top tier weapons, since we don’t need to farm a daily-capped source for months to make it worth.

You know, you remind me the poor guy that some months ago answered to some guys that whined over the retard anvil system “What’s the problem if your 2 practo weapon got fcked? I always craft 5 white weapons, anvil all of the and keep only the best one”

2 Likes
#48

How can I be white knighting if my post history has me raging at IMC for the dumb ways they’ve handled recent events?

What do you want IMC to do about the class system or balance? All you’re doing is crying they aren’t giving you tons of free rank resets as far as I can tell, when they’re very likely doing another rank reset event very soon to coincide with rank 9 (just like KR did).

What exactly do you want so you can stop just spamming the forum with whining posts?

#49

damn how many times do I need to say this. And don’t give me that r9 reset is coming soon, IMC is already posting about balance changes past that.

What now, plan ahead for content that could potentially come 3 months after r9?

If you did endure with a plan designed for future INTENSE balance changes, what if they change these? What now, wait another 3 months for a grand total of 6 months to fix that? Or give up and restart your toon over and over? This is already what’s happening and people can only reroll so many times.

3 Likes
#50

And how many times do I have to say that the changes they’ve been making don’t require rerolls? You have not been able to provide an example other than your poor rogue losing a tiny bit of crit chance. This can happen in ANY MMORPG for ANY class, balance changes happen.

In the end, we can’t agree. That’s just how it is.

#51

The worst issues of the game?

Everything in this game is a DPS race. Every instance has a time limit to clear (also the new Challenge Mode) so if you don’t deal enough damage you’re basically out unless you’re an uber supporter (e.g. Thauma/Chrono). Many utilities aren’t required to play the game at all, or are so badly designed that it hurts (e.g. Kabbalist debuffs).

The main issue is that there is no real balance between the Classes even within a Class tree, leaving aside between Class trees. You can take Class A at Rank X or Class B, but if Class B is 3 times worse than Class A because its damage&utility is useless for any game content, why would you choose Class B in the first place?

It’s just aweful to see some Classes performing badly and the developers completely ignoring them (e.g. Kabbalist/Oracle), throwing some random changes at them and say they’re balanced, while buffing lower-Ranked Classes to be several times stronger&more useful than them[e.g. Bokor/Krivis].
What the heck?
It’s good that low-Ranked Classes become viable choices for higher Ranks, but they shouldn’t outright outperform their higher-Ranked counterparts.

Where is the balance here? It’s just roles reversed, underdog becoming top-tier and so-so performing Class becoming a total underdog.

I can’t refer to it enough, the developers have made 2 statements about their rebalances [look them up on the developers blog on the homepage here and here ] and with their achieved “balance” they worked exactly against what they stated in these two posts.

I don’t know what exactly they’re trying to achieve, but it certainly looks like Class-biased balancing, similar to what Eyedentity did with Dragon Nest until the players started to run away in large numbers due to their meta/viability changes every level cap patch[ which in turn made people buy a Class Change voucher and play the other Class Branch to stay viable] until the level 93 renewal patch(for those not familiar with how the game progressed: lvl 24 cap>level 32 cap>level 40 cap>level 50 cap> level 60 cap> level 70 cap> level 80 cap> level 90 cap > level 93 cap with ever-changing meta for ± every cap where 1 Class tree went into the trash bin for being useless while the other one became super-useful).

3 Likes
#52

yep, cause clearly what you think is what everyone else should feel.

not to mention that once again you fixate on rogue and ignore the other changes that happened like the TBL changes. Pretty sure after all those TBL changes everyone participating in them didn’t want to tweak anything at all right? Oh and don’t get me started on how many people hated the black death steam “fix.”

And sheesh, no one’s saying they can’t balance things. IMC just needs to take responsibility for changes they impose on players. Would it be so hard for you to admit that changes have happened and that other people are unsatisfied so IMC needs to do something?

3 Likes
#53

The issue isn’t about them changing their game. This game is the sole property of IMC and they can do what they want. They can even delete Classes if they like to.

However, what they should do is taking responsibility for is their own statements.
If they say they’ll do A but do B or only work on it half-heartedly, it’s annoying.
They could even change the statements/revise them, but did they even bother? No.

They basically lie about what they are going to do and artificially keep the hopes of players up for their Classes to get changed according to the guidelines, although the developers themself know better that it will never happen because of whatever reason (e.g. employeer A is overworked, Class X has not enough players to back up change-proposals,etc).

Also, why add a suggestion section in the forum if noone bothers to read them/answer them?
Suggestions show a lot about the game, especially the weak points of the game.
IMC doesn’t bother,though, it’s like the normal 08/15 MMORPG suggestion section of an official forum to keep the players busy so they don’t quit until they’ve bought the next gacha.

2 Likes
#54

Kabbalist and Oracle are amazing classes in both PVE and PVP. Oracle is receiving a major rework to be much better in PVE, and Kabbalist C3 is learning amazing attributes and a new skill. Even before these, both classes are very strong. What makes you think they’re not?

Don’t know what you’re saying with the dev blog either. You need to explain what “worked against what they stated.”

What TBL changes? You mean the entire rework of PVP balance? What classes were totally destroyed as a result of those changes? None, as far as I know.

Of course changes have happened. I just don’t know what changes people are unsatisfied with, and you can’t provide examples. Generic “the TBL changes” and “my rogues crit rate cry” are not enough to prove your point, and frankly, I’m hitting my limit of trying to humor you.

No one can provide examples, they keep saying these magical things are happening that just aren’t. These generic, wide, broad statements with zero specific examples is just a waste of everyone’s time.

Maybe I expected too much from people.

#55

You’re right, if IMC wants to design the game so that it will keep turning people like OP away then we can’t really help it. It’s just sad to see some people here claiming that OP shouldn’t feel this way because they don’t feel that way

2 Likes
#56

well ■■■■, I’m done. Try asking the top 5 TBL players in your server if they rerolled their character to stay there and get back to me when you can acknowledge that other people with different feelings play this Massively Multiplayer game.

Here we have this guy asking for one example, but it’s never enough and wants me to collate the experience of the thousands (or hundreds? did we even have thousands) of players who quit just this past half year

2 Likes
#57

As I figured, you have no argument. You just want to whine and make up things that aren’t true.

I’ve wasted my time. Just quit, no one will care. I’m done.

#58

it’s not that I don’t have any, you just completely ignore them because that’s not what you feel.

I already explained about wanting to change class choices with the card system changes but you chose to ignore that and fixated on the rogue. What next, you’re gonna say that those classes will still work? You do realize that argument won’t fix the problem that a player wants to change their build right?

You can’t even accept the very simple idea that changes can produce negative feelings. You’re just gonna go “nooooo I didn’t feel bad cause I’m a white knight totally seeing IMC in such glorious light and I don’t see what’s wrong you shouldn’t be complaining.”

EDIT: and there you have it folks, the “just quit.” You don’t need to tell us, you can look at the steam charts for proof that people are ditching your favorite game

3 Likes
#59

image

yeah yeah most complaints are not true, thats why we are quitting :rofl:

2 Likes
#60

Wow man, that’s like 1 server’s worth of people just quitting this last month. IMC is amazing they’re totally not disappointing people and making them lose motivation to play. Yep, I’m still having fun cause I can still kill this kepa (even though I will never be able to rank in any WB and get insta kicked if I try to join a WB party with my build that can still work even though everyone else rerolled already).

Wow even that WB content happened past the reset event, so I have to stick with my char or reroll if I want changes (or buy/use limited rank resets). I guess people who invested in stage 10 trans weapons but get out-DPS’d by shino murms should just deal with it. God forbid the people I saw reroll their catagoons into shinomurms after getting disappointed cause there’s new content that actually require them to have damage are real people with real feelings right?

EDIT: GASP maybe I’m not real!? I dropped my hacka because of the card changes. This guy says he doesn’t care about that so I shouldn’t complain. If that isn’t some hot entitled ignorance-is-bliss white knighting I don’t know what else is

2 Likes