Tree of Savior Forum

It TOS beyond redemption?

I personally feel as if this game still remains in BETA. I’m always disheartened at the issues for those climbing ET – a single disconnect on certain floors rends the entirety of the run impossible. Not so bad on lower floors, but higher floors are still an issue.

I think that the chat system remains atrocious and should be overhauled and revamped.

I’m not sure why this game doesn’t come with an inborn quest tracker, one that doesn’t require a third party program.

Have you read about the blatant FPS issues? I’m on a Titan X and can coast through any game I play but somehow this game still manages to bend my GPU over, no lube.

What can be said about botting and cheaters that hasn’t already been said about Vietnamese hookers before?

< insert here complaints about botting, rabid cheating, unresolved core issues >

Is it all bad? Well… Lets delve into this.

Has there been improvements? Most certainly. There’s always a bug fix or two, but it’s more than clear than our version of ToS doesn’t get enough care to support the longevity we’d envisioned and desired.

I want you to keep in mind that there are plenty of people like I, who despite the issues, still find the game enjoyable. With that said, any person feeding you the bullcrap excuse that the state of the game and it’s imminent decay is due to it being catered to a more casual crowd is most certainly deluding themselves and others.

This was the fastest Greenlit game in Steam history; the numbers don’t lie. There’s a severe lack of players in smaller servers, Orsha for an example, which causes the economy to suffer tremendously. For an example, there’s a now steady and heavy swing in Token prices. Valuables which should otherwise be frequent and cheap sell for far more than the average player can afford. I’d like to remind everyone again that a Venier on Orsha sold by Atramedes (11 crafted in the past two months) are DEFINITELY selling for 17-20m a pop.

Why? There’s only a single channel to farm Fossilized Lizard Amber for.

The deduction in channels is a direct result and an affirmative response to a lack of players.

If you aren’t aware, Venier is a staple item for Fencer. You can see how damaging this is to new players.

< insert list of white knighters who wish to say they can do this or that to farm it, completely ignoring the entirety of the point here >

Fact is that at this point those who claim RMT damages the economy are defending their statements with trickled down economics. They’ve an education on the subject equivalent to a 5th graders first Lemonade stand.

For the next few months to come and until the imminent closure of the game, the community that remains up until that point will continue to feel the brute of those issues.

With that said, I am a firm believer that ultimately what you enjoy shouldn’t be altered by another persons opinion under the assumption that your enjoyment isn’t unaccommodating anyone else.

If ultimately you feel that you want to play this game, if you have fun, if your money that you invest (if any at all) into the game is rewarded by some positive experience up until you quit or the game closes, whichever comes first, then that’s truly all that matters.

But don’t let players here sugarcoat the facts for you.

Crap is still crap even after you’ve sprayed it with perfume.

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Please give it a steam review too but more simple for newcomers to understand.

I’m going to be super real with people right now not as a negative nancy or doom poster but a logical person whose experienced this stuff before. After putting a lot of thought into this thread topic question with the way people have exploited tons of things from the start, the population dwindling, and lack of content patches I think if they wanted to do it right everything needs a wipe. Taking either option of leaving things as is or wiping is a double edged sword but things have just gone too deep down into the pooper for redemption.

Longer this goes on with people abusing guild battles, events, botting, the worse the economy and conditions for normal players gets. I can’t see there being any hope for the economy with the way it’s been manipulated and cornered by RMT/monopolies. Even with class resets that’s not going to fix some of the long term damage done by all these early exploits. Merging all the servers into one or two also is going to bring about a lot more problems than people think too.

They actually could fix everything then just wipe, boost exp/drop rates for fields out the wazoo for a bit, refund any monetary TP/packs people have bought, then not put the ridiculous gacha cubes and crap in the cash shop. Nothing short of doing something like this will fix all the damage done unless they truly do “IMC” all the exploiters by adding more content to make the old stuff obsolete. Even that runs the risk of more people quitting with no new ones joining, which more than likely will happen with the way they go about it.

Not going to be a popular opinion but these the ropes.

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meanwhile…

check the comparison at 9:00 further (the sonic blow)

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The exploiting isn’t the only issue that killed the game. There’s a ton of branches on this tree, but the root cause is the poorly laid foundation. While it may make players to a level happier that such things were removed immediately and while your suggestion had SOME forethought, once again, trickled down economics.

A wipe isn’t going to solve a thing if the issues affecting the over-all enjoyability of the game aren’t addressed. The fact that we function on a report system and lack a proper game-guard is a huge issue. IMO Steam should refund TP to steam wallet, bill IMC, and IMC should then do what has been in works forever but keeps getting denied and provide the game to Nexon USA.

I recall how everyone was crying about the possibility of Nexon getting the game and how this or that and the other would be. Nexon may be cash-grabbers, but hell if even their shittiest games have nearly triple the population of this game in its current state. How does “Your Fantasy Life” have more active players than this gem?

Because IMC may not care or perhaps can’t afford to pay for developers to assist in repairing the game state side. That’s my opinion. I also feel that they used this to fuel there upcoming title. Which I hope crashes and burns.

While I’m in favor of banning anything that’s cheating the system, we’ve got to consider the fact that at hand we’re still running a barebones version of the game. The FPS issue, the chat issues, the disconnect issues, the Alch 3 issues. Man, we can compile a book on it.

Your suggestion isn’t solving much but merely prolonging the inevitable.

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http://forum.treeofsavior.com/uploads/default/original/3X/d/3/d3d146225c6509211bb77c90dbba6e2db50c6d9f.jpg

Did you read or just make an assumption? I said they SHOULD fix everything AND THEN wipe in best case scenario. Because wiping before fixing solves nothing, then vice versa fixing while not wiping is also problematic.

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I think that they can fix long-term damage is my point. Let us rewind a moment and talk about FFXIV for a moment. The game was pennied out faster than a New York minute, no? I remember picking up the collectors edition of the game several times over for less than 10 cents at Gamestop and reselling them. They maintained these servers for quite some time while working on their new foundation. The issue is that the foundation for restructure exists, just not with IMC partnered with Steam but IMC partnered with Nexon.

My point was elevating your statement and arguing that removing the current state of the game by performing a wipe when they’ve all the tools at hand that WE ARE AWARE OF isn’t an option and if they decide to traverse that route, then it must be done in an extreme fashion.

By which I mean, give rights to Nexon and remove themselves from Steam while their U.S. division files for Bankrupcy but Nexon prevents them from going under in order to maintain good relation with the company so that they can continue to use their product. This is smart business. IF Steam is willing to accept the collaboration, then perhaps server reset after Nexon restructures the US version with a proper game-guard and discussions of reimbursement to players who’ve invested TP is decided upon. This is what I meant by my statements. I understand your point but it’s so badly portrayed and lacks necessary depth that trying to comment on the prerogative you’re presenting is pointless. I’m not trying to insult you; the point I’m getting at into that statement is you’ve an idea in your mind that scratches the barriers of your ignorance.

Ignorance isn’t an insult; it’s defined as not knowing.

But if you take it as an insult, you’re just proving your own stupidity.

You make point in case yourself, actually

and right before that…

How?

Just expand further on these thoughts instead of trying to play a losing game of semantics. Discuss with depth and I’ll either counter your points or stress on them if they’re applicable. We may even come to agree to disagree.

Within the USA they don’t have the backing to afford a wipe. They can begin a steady climb by addressing issues at hand but until they give us transparency – which they won’t, but Steam will with their active player listings on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis, we can only make assumptions. Take a look at today’s patch notes.

But based on the facts at hand, they either cannot afford it or simply take the SEGA route – which is a combination of both financial instability and lack of caring for Western world.

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Not beyond redemption but its current state is sh it.

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As someone who was an alpha tester for FFXIV I’d like to state they completely scrapped the project and made something different.

Glad you know what tools they have to deal with the literally over 9000 bot accounts that grows every second because from what I’ve seen they might be lucky to ban a couple 50 of them every day. Then also from what I’ve seen how they handled Brazilo Fako Checko only another handful of people got banned for that too. Last but not least there’s the free guild TP thing which I doubt they log and are going to ban for that either.

Bruh. Who said IMC is bankrupt they just got millions of dollars from the international server from various support packs. I really wish I still had the screen shot, but believe they sold over 100,000 of them at $10-50 which is quite a pretty penny. I don’t know where you’re getting this information that they are poor and have to beg to Nexon but that’s just wrong.

Well you see. First. They don’t hand the project over to Nexon and file for bankruptcy because that would be stupid. If they wanted to be extremely lazy and were actually smart about it they could just let fans have access to the source. A kind of crazy concept but having fans fix your code for free because you’re too stupid and lazy? I know right! It’s almost like they don’t already translate your game~

People like Excrulon exist out there who WOULD HAVE willingly done things for them given the chance but nah. We a prideful Korean company and can’t have some foreign guy show us up since we’re also a company which has to save face. Can’t let the eAthena crowd take us down again because that would break Mr. Kim’s little heart.

But anyways, in this hypothetical world where they let the fans have access to the source servers things would get fixed. Amazing right? A whole new concept here of things being fixed so now you can progress into wiping your databases and figuring out how to refund the legit customers their TP/items. Finally start a campaign to bring players back saying you’re sorry for what you did and show changes.

It would take serious PR and transparency along with the willingness to actually work with players giving them what they want. Holy moly, we are like on a roll here with these genius ideas of getting people who actually fix stuff to do it, then give players what they want~

Like mind blowing! But in your world IMC is this poor bankrupt company woe as them. They have to bow down to the mighty Nexon who stole all their lunch monies and has to do their bidding.

This crap happens on RO private servers all the time and people are fine with it. Because after all this game might as well be treated like some crazy guy modded an RO private server then dun goofed anyways right?

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Wonderful I’m actually a player from Alpha too! Before ARR became ARR, we should be aligning on the same thought process. They did scrap it after they built a foundation and changed directors, et cetera. I feel as if they need to change directors for the U.S. division and then proceed with attacking the issues at hand.

To be more accurate, Yoshi absorbed a lot of the faults and corrected the direction of the development.

There’s plenty of tools that could help against botting but the combat against hacking in general is a never-ending battle period. Gameguard will ensure the most basic of things. It’s a start. A healthy start. You’re creating a hyperbole, here, my man.

I’m certainly no expert which is why I can only provide snippets of my thought process. For all I know I could be completely wrong, but I’m willing to accept that. On the other hand, you seem agitated someone challenged you on your statements.

Take a deep breath. We can debate and exchange ideas without you trying to compare manhood sizes with me. It’s all good. : )

I never said they were bankrupt. I said that they may not have the funding in American to finance what it’d take to evolve the servers to the point that they need to be. Point in case, blatant FPS issues, decrease in server size due to failing population, et cetera.

Catching my drift yet?

What you’re thinking of is also an ignorant knowledge of bankruptcy.

You’re thinking of Chapter 7.

I’m talking about Chapter 11.

It’s kind of for recovering from a “crippling debt” but I’m certain in the past it’s been used to overhaul the business and reorganize it again to become more profitable and valuable. I could be wrong about the key points of Chapter 11, so if someone can interject on this, feel free! Thanks!

I’m not saying they have to beg Nexon and you’re once again twisting my words, but I think the best route would be to partner with Nexon. I think it’s a more fruitful option. I’m certainly stuck on that idea because I’m unsure of anything else working properly.

Or are you going to continue to defend the current state of the game indirectly?

I actually think that’s a brilliant idea. We saw what happened when RO servers were translated. Smoothing over money-grubbing donation servers, if they kept some laws strict enough, I’m sure plenty of coders would involve themselves. But addressing the notion that they’re not bankrupt. You’re thinking of the main company. For an example. I work for Tricon, but the company BCH is parented by Tricon. Their funding comes from Tricon but they’re considered a Tricon company and operate under their name over seas.

The U.S. branch is the same. If the sector here falls, no sweat off of IMC’s back. There’s only so much money they’re willing to sink into this game across seas. Don’t you think?

I’ll entertain the rest of your post by editing it in! This is already super long!

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I think the concept of your open source is brilliant. I’ll reiterate that. At worse, private servers spawn. Has there been talk of that at all? I never thought it’d be a bad idea. But alas, I agree with your statement on RO. But RO is not this game and they’re certainly not following suit to it.

You’re comparing apples to oranges.

Moving on, you seem to believe that I’ve this misconception that IMC is poor. I think you’re misunderstanding business 101 again. I remember I mentioned this earlier about the people on this forum who have a very basic understanding of business, about as much as a 5th graders first lemonade stand? Something like that?

I think that’s what I’m getting at with you.

Lets break it down in words you understand.

Me have 3 big business.

Me put funds into 3 big business.

Me have 30 funds.

Me put 10 funds into each business

10 business 1/10 business 2 /10 business 3

Business 1 make good money. Me happy. Profit. Netgain. Bottom line revenue at the end of the fisca- oh wait, almost slipped there. Hold up. Surplus to pay worker and maintain server. Yes.

Business 1 fund increase to 25. Can afford to care.

Business 2 also make good money.

Can afford to pay worker well.

State of server and game much good.

Business 2 surplus 20.

Much growth.

Server 3. We no care. It not make much money. We price up on package for people to help fund.

Server 3 decline

In-game patch is slow

Locked out by contract with partner company

Must wait long time for bug-fix.

Some bug-fix still exist from beta.

Business 3 fund is 11.

Forecast say Business 3 fund be 9.

Cost of maintaining Business 3 too expensive.

Me no see worth in putting fund into business 3. Me prefer to let business 3 die or maintain low fund.

Congratulations. You’ve graduated middle school economics.

Here’s your degree.

In my world, I understand that there’s allocations for funding in sectors of their businesses. IMC as a company in its entirety doesn’t define workings in other countries without a funding plan. There is, once again, no saying what the truth is on the matter is that there’s little to no excuse for us to be this far into the game plagued by the same issues in day 1.

What does that tell you?

I can tolerate cheaters and RMT’ers any day.

I don’t have to deal with them if I don’t wish to.

I can play with friends. I can find statics of legitimate players.

But I can’t fix that sometimes my game crashes for the next 10 minutes because I can’t open my friendslist. Or that Alchemist 3 still doesn’t have a Homonc. I can’t fix that FPS on the highest tiered cards on the market are bent over faster and longer and harder than Gianna Michaels.

Is this prevalent in all versions of the game? Can you answer me that?

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RIP IMC.
RIP TOS.

Thats what will happen with the problems going on.
Not even a Wolfknight can save them when the Hueknight efforts go to waste.

huehue

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-Cracks knuckles- Yes, I have mentioned them before because during the iCBT1 phase they left all their assets wide open for the taking. So a development project came up right away for private servers. As someone whose watched it closely now for over a year even they to have stopped developing because IMC doesn’t provide content or anything for them to work with now.

https://github.com/aura-project - Posting this since I’m tired of coming here and having to tell people things they don’t want to believe or think they know better. Don’t even care any more about being banned.

They are a small single Korean company of 30 people. We’re not talking about some major corporate conglomerate here, but I’m really glad you want to point out and say my understanding of a business is that of a toddler.

This web doesn’t exist because it’s just IMC. They might have some people on payroll then pay others like the GM staff/mods hourly who knows but I’m 100% pretty sure it’s not rocket science here and you’re just trying to sound cool to prove a point.

But then again you’re the expert right? They can’t fix things because it’s hard to manage a small company of 30 people to devote funds to this guy or someone else who can code with him: [quote=“STAFF_J, post:1, topic:124857”]
Senior Programmer, Sanghyup Shin
[/quote]

I can’t answer your question about the bugs in different versions of the game because I haven’t played them. What I can say is that IMC should have power over what ever they want to do with their code especially for iTOS. All they have chosen to do is make supporter packs and cash shop items aside from the old Sky Liner nerf.

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I’m certainly not sounding cool to prove a point but I like to believe I have a bit more understanding than the average person. I know that IMC is a small company but their lack of response and initiative is really disheartening.

Stop taking everything as a personal attack. I do think your business understanding is comical. You kept overlooking the fact that though they’ve got millions of dollars that perhaps they don’t find it worthwhile to invest this into us.

This is precisely why PSO2 never made it stateside.

I’m not trying to sound smart about it. I’m just observing and pointing out a thing here or there that doesn’t make sense in your statements.

So you can either agree to disagree or do me a favor and climb off your high horse so that just maybe we can come to an understanding.

I expect at this point that’s asking too much from you.

Keep up the sarcasm though. You’re the man now, dawg.

This would have been brilliant. I’m surprised I hadn’t heard of this. Is there any reason why IMC doesn’t provide them with more content?

Is it licensing issues?

I can concur with this. They should have power over it. My conflict with the statements presented on the forums is a question of why. If IMC can do this or that, why haven’t they? I’m really confused and conflicted. I feel as if 1) they don’t care or 2) They can’t because of funding or man-power.

I feel as if they’re focused on other versions of the game and maybe will feed us scraps.

Or they’ll let it decline until the game dies State side.

I think you’re comical. They don’t want to invest into back into the market that had the biggest potential revenue and generated the most for them through support packs. Your answer to all this of “why” is because they are dumb. Really dumb. There’s no rhyme or reason to think they have some savvy business tactics going on here behind the scenes. That’s what has me annoyed that you act like an expert but yet can’t come to that conclusion. All they want is to milk the stupid western market for their own greed in the littlest effort possible.

They obviously don’t support the private server thing because they stole their assets and are forming a project to work against them? The guy had his work stolen before which made the private servers for RO possible so do you really believe he doesn’t hold some kind of grudge against the community for that?

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But then it smells like pretty crap, just make sure that perfume is strong as ■■■■ hue~

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It is not TOS is beyond redemption, but I kinda think that instead IMC Developer Team is beyond capable.

Up until now, I think many core gameplay issues have not been tackled/redesigned. Many R8 classes are still under perform in R8,
the class balance, power creep, and reliance of long wait queue to proceed the game.

It is only good to play if you have a team of 4-5 committed friends to play together.

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/Hue.

Long debate over “details that won’t extinguish the burning tree…”

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