Tree of Savior Forum

Is your body ready for THIS?

General Discussion
#61

Except for common sense, or does that not apply either?
Refer to cosmetics being p2w because other ppl pay money to look better.
Oh and buying a game. Because paying for a game is the very definition of gaining the advantage of being able to actually play the game over those who did not pay and thus cannot play at all.

Fine, lets go with the idea that p2w has no clear definition, so then as stated above, its totally fine to make it include everything.
UNLESS ofc you grow a brain and admit that it gives you otherwise unobtainable items/stats/options. Is XP such a thing? You cant get xp without a boost? Sure bro.

You are literally arguing for stupidity here.
I dont even know how to take your logic seriously, but never the less you seriously wish to argue for it.

I can only repeat myself: Get familiar with the concept of pay for convenience.
Spending money on things you can obtain in game without any problem, just doing it faster/more conveniently.
Baiting players with time such as xp boosts and dungeon cooldowns are a perfect example for this. You can dungeon and level up perfectly fine without these items, but with them you can do it faster.

#62

And @FatePGN shows us again how professional he is.

1 Like
#64

I’m so happy people think this item will never appear in the Cash Shop.

You have so much faith. It’s admirable. +1

2 Likes
#65

@black_light
Well, to me, p2w exists on a spectrum. It’s usually not black and white, though in certain extreme examples it is.

For instance, purchasing stats directly from the cash shop (unavailable elsewhere) would clearly be p2w, while cosmetics are clearly not.

Where things fall in between, the line gets blurry. Pay to win, in its most naked form, translates into “pay for an exclusive in-game advantage” - and the term advantage can give rise to wide interpretations. It is here where I disagree with you that all it boils down to is “common sense”.

I would think “pay for convenience” and its sub-category, infinite dungeon runs fall into this gray area category. What this means is that depending on how it is implemented, it is not a question of “It is P2W” or “It is not P2W”, but more of “it is more/somewhat/not really p2w”. How “convenient” must it be for it to fall under the P2W category?

Using an extreme example, being able to buy a level 280 character instantly would be “very” p2w. Adding a few dungeon runs would be “not quite”. Infinite dungeon runs may be “somewhat” etc.

So it’s more of a matter of degree than anything else.

Also I find that your tone of complaint is not very helpful either. Whining about whining doesn’t fix things. If you want them to stop, do so in a respectful and civil manner.

#66

Common sense indicates that if Player A can achieve something in 5 days by paying money, while Player B can do it in 10 days without paying money, Player A has a clear advantage over Player B.
This is where a definition of P2W kicks in. I consider P2W any form of spending $$$ that gives you a noticeable advantage over non-paying players. Time is one of those advantages.
Some people might argue that P2W only applies to situations, where it’s impossible to achieve something without paying $$$. Sure, I can understand that viewpoint. But to me P2W simply means having an advantage over non-paying players. Saving hours to achieve the same goal is a major advantage in MMORPG. Therefore stuff such as exp boosters, more dungeon entries, etc. are a form of P2W in my definition.

Depends on your definition of P2W. Costumes don’t give me any clear advantage over other players, apart from appealing to my fashion needs, so it’s not P2W for me.

Aren’t we discussing ToS, which is F2P?

Weird, I don’t remember saying I include everything in P2W category?

#67

Did you not read what I said? I said that you’re claiming that people cause drama while it’s you who caused drama. I never said that you can’t call out people for incorrectly calling something P2W. Here are a few quotes from you:

Even with all the things you quoted, you’re still the most dramatic in here by a long shot. Yes, you’re more dramatic than the Steve Carell video, which is more a memetic response (much like greenfoxy’s anime pictures) than genuine drama.

I’ll leave it at this. I’ve spent way too much time on this already, and it’s only causing more of a derail. Feel free to defend yourself some more via PM, but I am done discussing this publicly

#68

I mean it’s a pretty fair amount of faith. So far IMC has proven to listen to the international community on matters such as this.

That said, dungeon reset scrolls would be one of the most powerful items available should it be in the cash shop for this game in particular.

Having a reset scroll means a player can reach max level in a day or a few days depending on play time and scrolls used, and also would be able to get some of the best gear at an infinite chance and faster rate.

It’s just so exceedingly powerful, even more powerful than outright putting gear in the CS, that it really makes sense to not expect such a thing in the CS, and the outcry alone should majorily affect it should it happen.

But I find it silly to really worry about a nonexistent cash shop item. It’s okay to be precautious, but to come to the forums and spread information in a way that can be misinterpreted as true and cause some form of panic over something non existent in the CS, just doesn’t seem like all that great of an idea.

3 Likes
#69

I think it’s very fair to spread awareness of a possible P2W incoming in the future. Staff reads those forums right? There’s hope they will react to players’ concerns and hopefully this problem won’t arise in the future.

#70

It’s fair to voice concern over something, but don’t be misled.

The threads title is “Is your body ready for this?” and there is only a link.

There is no opinion of concern on the matter in the original post nor is there info on the circumstances of the item, nor info on whether it is currently in the cs or not.

If this thread was to voice concern over matters like that item, it would be pretty different. It’s a little silly to hope for IMC to take notice to reactions on this thread when it was made in such a way to only incite flaming/arguments and misinformation.

A thread to voice our concerns about such items should actually voice a stance/opinion and provide more information.

1 Like
#71

I respectfully disagree since that person would need to be in direct correlation to you to make the comparison. You will have thousands if not ten thousands of people in game who are higher level than you, better geared, etc etc etc etc.
If this was a global pvp game, then sure. Someone buying lvl 280 and then wrecking your butt means he literally bought an advantage over you, but just how do you wish to compare to one random player out of tens of thousands and say that this guy has an advantage over you? An advantage of what? How does he rival or compete with you, how are you in a lesser situation compared to him?
How does him being lvl 280 in tos affect your gameplay?
Furthermore in what time range, because naturally you will be hitting lvl 280 as well.

Sorry but if its “blurry” we wanna argue then this argument sure is nothing but blur.
Even if its pvp in tos, i would think the matchmaker wont sort you against an opponent 250 levels above you, so the notion that he has an “advantage” over you further and further diminishes.

This all exists literally in your head.
You pick out some random player who has absolutely nothing to do with you and claim that he has an advantage over you and that this is p2w.
I cant even begin to fathom the situation which serves as a ground for your example of discussing p2w.

#72

Refer to the above post.
You are taking a random guy, randomly out of context, who has absolutely nothing to do with you, does not interact you, does not come across you, you didnt even meet him, etc etc etc, so you pick out this dude and state that he has an advantage over you.

An advantage in what?
ePeen length?
Is there a world pvp that forces you to go up against this guy? Is there a pvp system so broken and flawed that the matchmaker throws you against ppl 250 levels above yours?
Just what the hell are we talking about?

Also then there is the time frame in which your claim stays true, because eventually you are going to hit max level too and… just what the hell are we discussing here?

Out of context no base claims based on nothing but fantasies of inferiority.
Please elaborate a lot harder than this if you want to discuss the topic, because it still makes no sense whatsoever.

Sure buddy, lets ignore all rational arguments and keep throwing the word drama drama drama over and over again at the opposition.
What is it kettle? The pot is black?
At this point you are doing nothing than perpetuating drama as well. No arguments, just bs and flame. I had at least made arguments.

#73

hope its cheap lol the storm is coming xD

#74

if i paid for founder package and play 3-4 hours a day, i am paid to lose? hehe… come on man. this game has yet dealing with anything pay to win. unless the commerical item allow to wash your r1 to r7 class selection, then this is something really called paid to win. even you get headgears with stats still not paid to win. higher stats don’t mean you are good at everything too. i would say this game is so far “paid for fashion” :smiley: costumes and hairstyle.

#75

oooo this i like damn 20/chars

#76

gotta be stylish to win you know just hope they add more like skin colors and stuff xD

#77

Hair color is achievment only atm.

Do that achievment to get blue , do that to get red.

Etc.
That’s a good start ^^.

1 Like
#78

hahaha, this is a bit dramatic, but i agreed with your all points there. somehow, haha. these people are too scare to lose so they brand the game p2w :smiley: drop a few words and then just ignore them. i would say this game is so far “paid for fashion” :smiley:

1 Like
#79

the amount of irony in this paragraph is too damn high

######I dunno why it’s saying I’m replying to you, nurio. sry

1 Like
#80

*wondering why this was in reply to me*

######It’s okay

1 Like
#81

people play game at different pace. are you care so much if someone go faster than you?