[quote=“thebloodyaugust, post:18, topic:216357, full:true”]
Never said the sub optimal builds would be useless just earth tower is where youll notice if you have a sub optimal build when compared to another player.
[/quote]some people actually can tell this to my face 
Plus I’ve seen those ‘optimal’ builds running around dungeoning with me and they don’t do crap orz
Lost faith in those builds when the actual people using them can’t do crap with it
Yea player skill is a factor.
im simply saying IF we assumed both players of equal skill, the optimal build would perform better.
I do understand where your coming from though, i have seen many idiots copying optimal builds who are bad.
Yeah and I don’t mind suboptimal build
- i play this game for fun not e-peen
- I’m a monk - if I want optimal I wouldn’t play monk in the first place
In Swordsman, Gung Ho 5 gives +20 Attack.
Then C2, Gung Ho 10 gives +35 Attack.
Concentrate 5 gives +11 Attack, 11 Hits.
Concentrate 10 gives +19 Attack, 19 Hits.
C3 is even better, totally worth it.
(Im ignoring Restraint skill here)
Okay so if you go to your trainers they have these things called attributes that improve certain skills if you meet requirements. Some skills are only good because of their attributes, such as the 2 you listed.
I know bro, I know.
But it also reduces defense and even with the incredible damage it will give, you still wont be as good as mages or archers.
Also, why get C2? To increase 15 damage from Gung Ho? Thats 15 attributes. Increasing 8 damage from Concrentate? Thats 4 attributes. The extra hits are kind of worth, thou, but it doesnt look concrete.
the attribute also decrease the defense reduction doesn’t it?
Also mages and archers don’t have a buff cap of 9 like a swordsman does.
Yes swordsman c2 is pretty garbage. But C3 is good for pvp.
Exactly! This is broken!
Why cant I just take C2 then something else? Feels like we must always do C3 because of the Restraint 40% stun chance, because C2 `s is only 20%.
[quote=“thebloodyaugust, post:27, topic:216357, full:true”]
Also mages and archers don’t have a buff cap of 9 like a swordsman does.
[/quote]what?! I demand equality for clerics too!!
Clerics and swordsman both have a buff cap of 9.
With token i should say. 8 without.
Wait i thought clerics has 5 plus 1 with token? Then plus 1 once you read circle 5?
No idea are you being sarcastic or what, but gungho + concentrate with attribute contributes ALOT of boost to your damage. Why bother hammering your weapon if you think gungho’s free weapon damage is useless…
I personally didn’t even take restrain as c2 and after reading it from some experience player restrain, even at 10/10 is useless in pvp as players can resist it. So the % is even lower to proc the stun.
That’s the players fault, not the way classes are designed. You don’t ‘need’ Peltasta at all, it’s just players wanting an easy way to group mobs.
You can always try to petition IMC to change the Swordman base class to Peltasta instead tho.
Ofcourse you did. Because why would you need Peltasta in solo play…?
It’s intended to be like that so people won’t just take 1 circle and get the full class’s benefit.
@roflmaopapa
Ok, now without sarcasm.
The thing is: These skills are good with attributes. But, Gung Ho will decrease your defense by 100~ because each attribute decreases it by 1. Thats a big deal.
The real problem here is Swordsman C2, not the skills. This rank is a nightmare! Restraint 20% is not good, +15 damage for Gung Ho is not the best thing, +8 for Concentrate is useless (only worth extra hits).
Dude, this game didnt even go live yet. Let them fix thing 1 by 1. Im sure more balancing come after go live.
Save those points for c3 then if you have nothing you want. And if your not going c3 and you think c2 sucks, take something else for your rank 2. Im really not seeing the issue here.
And yet I take it, I like concentrate’s additional hit counts, gungho was already known for it’s bad scaling end game. But who cares, free damage is free.
Defense decrese? I am a warrior with the highest base HP pool of all 4 classes and I am afraid of that -100 defense when magic damage is the real issue against us?
Sure C2 isn’t any shiny gem, but as @forgotten_dreams mentioned, C2 is the pathway to unlocking the core skill that shines at C3.
If you want to complain about swordC2, WizC2 has a even bigger issue, WAY bigger. In fact wizC1 already is the issue…
but that c3 is soooooo sexy and worth it
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@forgotten_dreams
Concrete points. Ok, lets talk about it.
If you go to Swordsman threads, they are talking about level 200+ problems. In this tier, you cant really play solo. Everyone will be in a party and Swordsman DPS wont be effective. And I dont want them to do Peltasta as base rank. *** Swordsman Classes Need to be Fixed *** [IMC, are you looking at this?]
Peltasta in solo mode sounds pretty cool, but I never tried. Some people recommended it because you could use Doppel farm skill, Barbarian AoE skills and be happy. This rank is not 100% useless in solo, dont be radical x).
And for everyone here talking about the Swordsman C2.
ToS encourages you to take ANY rank that you want. Doing obligatory C3 because C2 sucks is a terrible design IMO.
Taking C3 for the @forgotten_dreams “full class’s benefit” is very wrong. If you go by this way, then doing any C2 is bad because we need to @roflmaopapa “unlock the core”? No, we need freedom! From now on, C2 means that you will C3? Why cant I just take a C2 and forget the C3?
I may be wrong, never talked about this fresh issue.
Actually IMC has said that there are way to many classes and ranks to balance, not all of them will be good. You can take what ever you want but they NEVER said it would be good.
Also there are good C2 choices.