Tree of Savior Forum

Is main goal of ranks broken?

General Discussion
#41

But mate, gimme the link about this.
If they said that they did some bad design and all of this mess is purposeful then I`m done here lol.

Yeah, there are useful C2. Not every C2 is bad.

#42

[quote=“timbinquim, post:39, topic:216357, full:true”]

ToS encourages you to take ANY rank that you want. Doing obligatory C3 because C2 sucks is a terrible design IMO.

Taking C3 for the @forgotten_dreams “full class’s benefit” is very wrong. If you go by this way, then doing any C2 is bad because we need to @roflmaopapa “unlock the core”? No, we need freedom! From now on, C2 means that you will C3? Why cant I just take a C2 and forget the C3?
[/quote]Hi Paladin (not that c2 sucks, but not much point without c3)
Thank god Monk is not so.

#43

It was in one of the old Q&A’s im not sure which one, but if you go through them im sure youll find it.

#44

Oh you quote the wiz part, I thought you mean swordC3. Exactly my point, Wiz and Sword are BASE class, you want them to shine? C3. Of course every class is different, archerC3’s twin arrow is derp, but multishot 15 rekt bosses.

@timbinquim
So you gonna whine till they fix it the way you like? gl hf. I assure you the moment they change something, people are still going to cry over it not being the way they want it. The devs are not here to please everyone.

#45

[quote=“roflmaopapa, post:44, topic:216357, full:true”]
The devs are not here to please everyone.
[/quote]if they have the money n brains they’d pay a dev to make a game they like :joy:

Alternatively, play private server or start one :slight_smile:

#46

Or they can just take a course in game design, develop their own. Then once again they will understand how developers feel when players pummel them about their decisions to do thing. Of course feedbacks are important, but don’t force a player’s opinion into the dev’s original design. They may have intended to make wiz2 crappy as hell but [quote=“thebloodyaugust, post:38, topic:216357”]
but that c3 is soooooo sexy and worth it
[/quote]
It may be their intention all along. Similar to Swordsman.

#47

Then everyone would just pick C2 and ignore C3. C3 is typically ment to be stronger as a reward for those that stick with the class, instead of going for that shiny higher rank one.

As for 200+ and Peltasta, its players asking that. Because they want the easiest and fastest way to max level. You dont need the taunt, but its simply more convenient.

Dont really think you can be wrong if your open to debate.

#48

@roflmaopapa
Lets be clear about this, my friend.

They way I like: Being able to choose C2 and never getting C3 (just my personal liking, its not that C3 is weak).

The way you like: We absolutely can not play Swordsman C2 because its a weak circle and we need to open C3 to effectively use it.

Explain me now. How about other C2 classes? Are they weak? Are they independent? Are they as good as choosing an entire new rank?

Or C2s are just paths to C3s?

Please keep this thread constructive, we are talking about a MAIN ToS mechanic.

@forgotten_dreams
I agree that C3 should be stronger. In that meme post I was being sarcastic about those little +8 bonus damage (Concentrate) when choosing an entire new rank.

Of course C3 > C2, man, but at least C2 must be as good as choosing Highlander or Peltasta!

About this Peltasta stuff, never read about this fast leveling idea. That really makes sense. I wont be getting Peltasta because of the so called main builds.

#49

[quote=“timbinquim, post:48, topic:216357, full:true”]
Explain me now. How about other C2 classes? Are they weak? Are they independent? Are they as good as choosing an entire new rank?
[/quote]a number of circle 2 in cleric are good, and a number are meh - like - go for circle 3 or not take it at all.
Pretty balanced but a player not sure where they are going can easily pick it for fun.
We also have a lot of circle 1s which are not useful and circle 3s only marginally useful.

But you won’t know any of them without research.
It’s hard to mess up a cleric build with minimum research, but without any research it can be really easy to make a bad cleric that can’t exhibit much strength.

#50

You are confusing promoting with forcing.

Promoting re-rolling would mean they make it easy for us to twink and not force us to do exactly the same as before. I can load my twink with gear to the teeth but I still can’t go into 30+ zones because XP quite frankly sucks - for what reason I don’t know.

All my twinks go the same which is boring and not promoting it in any way.

#51

But, are these C1 really broken and nobody wants them or that they wont fit into some specific build?

#52

By design they’re meant to have limited usefulness.
Like people take priest c1 just so they can res but 1 circle of priest ain’t really that helpful mid battle esp most of these people don’t max blessing.
Or people take paladin c1 just for costume but usage of restoration aura is limited and smite will be overshadowed by later dps skills.
Sadhu c1 which after the nerf, the usefulness of oob is greatly reduced.
Monk c1, your skills doesn’t really do much at circle1.

Everyone wants them for fun. In any build there are better choices for any of them except if you really want that playstyle. But it’s more for a ‘taste’
Paladin is one of the ones that if you want to take it, go to pally3. Diev and monk, circle 2 are okayish, circle3 much better. Cleric3 and krivis3 are the marginal circle3.

Let’s not talk about fitting into specific builds.
Even ‘popular’ builds get attacked everyday. Everyone says ‘why in the world would you do that to yourself’ for nearly every build someone tries to promote.

That’s an issue of playstyle though.

#53

Thought it’s a ‘pick your poison’ kind of thing
‘Be responsible for your choices’ etc :smiley:

#54

We already mentioned the key factor that you simply ignored. C2 doesn’t have much additional skills or powerful ones since it’s in the middle. Sure there are some that do have decent skills at C2 such as Barbarian’s Seism. But C3 is where most classes shine unless they screw up the design. In this case, Barbarian’s giant swing/pouncing both suck due to low damage, but that’s a balancing issue. You can invest the points in 10 Seism, Frenzy or whatever. The point is the more ranks you invest into the class, the more you can invest into the skills. There is a reason why they design the 5/5 10/10 15/15 skill system which increases skill level cap per rank, unless it’s for balancing sake.

Now for C3, most classes get new and unique skills, a reward for people who are willing to invest deep into that class. Example? Tons. Because it’s designed that way. Mind you I did not say all of them are good, but those are balancing issues.

No one is going to say anything if you

Muricans sure love their freedom anyway.
You can go 1 or 2 of each class and still be playable but will be you be efficient? No. Because you become nothing but a jack of all trade with no [quote=“roflmaopapa, post:19, topic:216357”]
three different factors.Types, Styles, and Core
[/quote]

The point of your thread seem to be about removing that exact barrier that restricts the choosing of classes.

Why break the barrier when it actually has a purpose?

And lastly

Are you even reading… I already said somewhere above I am a Sword C2, with 0 restrain and 10/10 gungho + concentrate. Since when did I once said [quote=“timbinquim, post:48, topic:216357”]
we need to open C3 to effectively use it.
[/quote]

I only said C3 is where you shine and get the core skill, Double slash like many others. Once again who is going to stop you from stopping at C2. No one.[quote=“roflmaopapa, post:19, topic:216357”]
End of the day, what you are playing/building for? To enjoy the different classes and theorycraft? To be tryhard and be known to the community for achieving something?
[/quote]

You don’t break down walls for the sake that it is there, you break it for a logical reason. Your’s sure isn’t.

#55

dude, this game went live at the end of march. we aren’t in Beta anymore. we’re in “headstart on the f2p players” mode.

but a “live” mmo doesn’t mean developments and changes stop.

#56

Thats just a name. Did u ever see so early headstart from f2p at any other games before? They just make it like that because community want it go live and didnt want cbt anymore.
Well, it doesnt matter. With current problem, im sure imc will fix core problem first like transfer server, commanderloadfail. They will balance it soon.

#57

yes. lots of games have used “exclusive access” promo’s to get people to buy in early, in many different fashions.
Pre-order, Beta Access, and of course the “head start” style like we have are the most common kinds.

they made it live because korea announced that it was going live.
then they planned for a 3 month roll-out and the community crapped its pants being told it had to wait so long, and they arranged this 1 month rush job.

but yea, everything has a priority order, and server stability and botting/RMT issues are a lot higher on the list than finicky balance technicalities.

#58

Why does every post I see about something like this involve a Swordsman class