@roflmaopapa
Ok, now without sarcasm.
The thing is: These skills are good with attributes. But, Gung Ho will decrease your defense by 100~ because each attribute decreases it by 1. Thats a big deal.
The real problem here is Swordsman C2, not the skills. This rank is a nightmare! Restraint 20% is not good, +15 damage for Gung Ho is not the best thing, +8 for Concentrate is useless (only worth extra hits).
Dude, this game didnt even go live yet. Let them fix thing 1 by 1. Im sure more balancing come after go live.
Save those points for c3 then if you have nothing you want. And if your not going c3 and you think c2 sucks, take something else for your rank 2. Im really not seeing the issue here.
And yet I take it, I like concentrate’s additional hit counts, gungho was already known for it’s bad scaling end game. But who cares, free damage is free.
Defense decrese? I am a warrior with the highest base HP pool of all 4 classes and I am afraid of that -100 defense when magic damage is the real issue against us?
Sure C2 isn’t any shiny gem, but as @forgotten_dreams mentioned, C2 is the pathway to unlocking the core skill that shines at C3.
If you want to complain about swordC2, WizC2 has a even bigger issue, WAY bigger. In fact wizC1 already is the issue…
but that c3 is soooooo sexy and worth it
@forgotten_dreams
Concrete points. Ok, lets talk about it.
If you go to Swordsman threads, they are talking about level 200+ problems. In this tier, you cant really play solo. Everyone will be in a party and Swordsman DPS wont be effective. And I dont want them to do Peltasta as base rank. *** Swordsman Classes Need to be Fixed *** [IMC, are you looking at this?]
Peltasta in solo mode sounds pretty cool, but I never tried. Some people recommended it because you could use Doppel farm skill, Barbarian AoE skills and be happy. This rank is not 100% useless in solo, dont be radical x).
And for everyone here talking about the Swordsman C2.
ToS encourages you to take ANY rank that you want. Doing obligatory C3 because C2 sucks is a terrible design IMO.
Taking C3 for the @forgotten_dreams “full class’s benefit” is very wrong. If you go by this way, then doing any C2 is bad because we need to @roflmaopapa “unlock the core”? No, we need freedom! From now on, C2 means that you will C3? Why cant I just take a C2 and forget the C3?
I may be wrong, never talked about this fresh issue.
Actually IMC has said that there are way to many classes and ranks to balance, not all of them will be good. You can take what ever you want but they NEVER said it would be good.
Also there are good C2 choices.
But mate, gimme the link about this.
If they said that they did some bad design and all of this mess is purposeful then I`m done here lol.
Yeah, there are useful C2. Not every C2 is bad.
[quote=“timbinquim, post:39, topic:216357, full:true”]
ToS encourages you to take ANY rank that you want. Doing obligatory C3 because C2 sucks is a terrible design IMO.
Taking C3 for the @forgotten_dreams “full class’s benefit” is very wrong. If you go by this way, then doing any C2 is bad because we need to @roflmaopapa “unlock the core”? No, we need freedom! From now on, C2 means that you will C3? Why cant I just take a C2 and forget the C3?
[/quote]Hi Paladin (not that c2 sucks, but not much point without c3)
Thank god Monk is not so.
It was in one of the old Q&A’s im not sure which one, but if you go through them im sure youll find it.
Oh you quote the wiz part, I thought you mean swordC3. Exactly my point, Wiz and Sword are BASE class, you want them to shine? C3. Of course every class is different, archerC3’s twin arrow is derp, but multishot 15 rekt bosses.
@timbinquim
So you gonna whine till they fix it the way you like? gl hf. I assure you the moment they change something, people are still going to cry over it not being the way they want it. The devs are not here to please everyone.
[quote=“roflmaopapa, post:44, topic:216357, full:true”]
The devs are not here to please everyone.
[/quote]if they have the money n brains they’d pay a dev to make a game they like 
Alternatively, play private server or start one 
Or they can just take a course in game design, develop their own. Then once again they will understand how developers feel when players pummel them about their decisions to do thing. Of course feedbacks are important, but don’t force a player’s opinion into the dev’s original design. They may have intended to make wiz2 crappy as hell but [quote=“thebloodyaugust, post:38, topic:216357”]
but that c3 is soooooo sexy and worth it
[/quote]
It may be their intention all along. Similar to Swordsman.
Then everyone would just pick C2 and ignore C3. C3 is typically ment to be stronger as a reward for those that stick with the class, instead of going for that shiny higher rank one.
As for 200+ and Peltasta, its players asking that. Because they want the easiest and fastest way to max level. You dont need the taunt, but its simply more convenient.
Dont really think you can be wrong if your open to debate.
@roflmaopapa
Lets be clear about this, my friend.
They way I like: Being able to choose C2 and never getting C3 (just my personal liking, its not that C3 is weak).
The way you like: We absolutely can not play Swordsman C2 because its a weak circle and we need to open C3 to effectively use it.
Explain me now. How about other C2 classes? Are they weak? Are they independent? Are they as good as choosing an entire new rank?
Or C2s are just paths to C3s?
Please keep this thread constructive, we are talking about a MAIN ToS mechanic.
@forgotten_dreams
I agree that C3 should be stronger. In that meme post I was being sarcastic about those little +8 bonus damage (Concentrate) when choosing an entire new rank.
Of course C3 > C2, man, but at least C2 must be as good as choosing Highlander or Peltasta!
About this Peltasta stuff, never read about this fast leveling idea. That really makes sense. I wont be getting Peltasta because of the so called main builds.
[quote=“timbinquim, post:48, topic:216357, full:true”]
Explain me now. How about other C2 classes? Are they weak? Are they independent? Are they as good as choosing an entire new rank?
[/quote]a number of circle 2 in cleric are good, and a number are meh - like - go for circle 3 or not take it at all.
Pretty balanced but a player not sure where they are going can easily pick it for fun.
We also have a lot of circle 1s which are not useful and circle 3s only marginally useful.
But you won’t know any of them without research.
It’s hard to mess up a cleric build with minimum research, but without any research it can be really easy to make a bad cleric that can’t exhibit much strength.
You are confusing promoting with forcing.
Promoting re-rolling would mean they make it easy for us to twink and not force us to do exactly the same as before. I can load my twink with gear to the teeth but I still can’t go into 30+ zones because XP quite frankly sucks - for what reason I don’t know.
All my twinks go the same which is boring and not promoting it in any way.
But, are these C1 really broken and nobody wants them or that they wont fit into some specific build?
By design they’re meant to have limited usefulness.
Like people take priest c1 just so they can res but 1 circle of priest ain’t really that helpful mid battle esp most of these people don’t max blessing.
Or people take paladin c1 just for costume but usage of restoration aura is limited and smite will be overshadowed by later dps skills.
Sadhu c1 which after the nerf, the usefulness of oob is greatly reduced.
Monk c1, your skills doesn’t really do much at circle1.
Everyone wants them for fun. In any build there are better choices for any of them except if you really want that playstyle. But it’s more for a ‘taste’
Paladin is one of the ones that if you want to take it, go to pally3. Diev and monk, circle 2 are okayish, circle3 much better. Cleric3 and krivis3 are the marginal circle3.
Let’s not talk about fitting into specific builds.
Even ‘popular’ builds get attacked everyday. Everyone says ‘why in the world would you do that to yourself’ for nearly every build someone tries to promote.
That’s an issue of playstyle though.
Thought it’s a ‘pick your poison’ kind of thing
‘Be responsible for your choices’ etc 