Tree of Savior Forum

INT scales a lot if the game ever reaches rank 10 - level 600

Class and Rank Wizard
#63

So does your matk from weapons… Int when all said is done is FLAT matk. It’s not a multiplier. It’s not crit % it’s flat.

And as I said… Everytime you upgrade that weapon at 280. You know what happens to the % of damage that flat matk provides? It means less. You go from 15% to 10% to 5% as your equipment continues to get upgraded.

600 int is always going to be the same amount of matk. It’s not going to get better as you upgrade your equipment. On the contrary it will mean less to your damage. Does that explain it better? I’m not sure I can break it down more simple then that. Would numbers help you?

#64

and full CON only need Animus Necklace to get close in damage to full int builds…

#65

hmm really in my understandin u get only around ~200 magic amp which is not even close to the int bonus

#66

it really isn’t close, but if you calculate the final damage you will see that having more a LOT more survival is better than having a few more damage.

#67

Well, since we’re talking numbers, let’s do some math :slight_smile:

A full con build will have, let’s say 50 INT, so that’s 50 matk. On a spell that hits for times, that’s 200matk, on a spell that hits 10 times, that’s 500matk, and on a spell that hits 20 times, that’s 1000matk.

For a Full INT build, we’ll assume it’s 600.
600 x 4 = 2400
600 x 10 = 6000
600 x 20 = 12000

So if you’re playing a class like Pyro or Ele that has lots of hits per spell, having a higher INT pays out more than other classes. I’m sure there’s a dimishing return at some point, as there is with all stats, but this is literally a multiplicative scaling of matk, it’s just based on what spells you’re planning on using. Keep in mind, also, that stats reward higher payouts for investing into them with bonus of that stat.

For example, a pyro with no INT and no gear uses a level 15 Fireball and it hits for 4860 matk, but with 600 INT (total), it hits for 13860. That’s almost three times the damage. I’m not sure what gear looks like at 280, but to say that INT is a flat buff on a multihit class seems completely wrong. I could be misunderstanding how multihit spells calculate damage, but I don’t think I am.

#68

frost cloud hits 30 times no wonder its the most broken non air spell in this game :smiley:
no u are right about the calculation …
And if u consider the nice aoe ratio of the wizards and multiply the dmg by well lets see 3 , 4 ,5 or even 6 targets it gets ridiculous

mfg
Majin

#69

The thing is that INT doesn’t give diminishing returns. They get multiplicatively better the more you invest in them. (it’s a small multiplier, but it improves over time)

The stats that have diminishing returns (aka they scale against level) are evasion, block, and crit. Soooo. Nothing INT based characters have to worry about really.

#70

30 times? Haha, I was doing the math assuming 2 hits/second, not 3. This is great.

#71

Wizards are so broken right now, and the OP talks about “the buff that int really needs” aahahahahah, omg…

What IMC needs to do is BUFF, the other classes. Swordsman is a perfect example. Shitty scaling, shitty skills, shitty buffs, only class worth is peltast(but let’s not change the topic of this discussion)

Returning to the point, you don’t miss your skills, bunch of AOE multi hit skills, quickcast that gives 50% more damage(if you go wiz3), tons of CC to the point you can kill your enemy without them moving(cryo i’m looking at you). Capable of going FULL CON and still doing damage, with tons of block/critresistance… Yea, INT really needs a buff.

#72

I’m not sure if you’re trolling at this point or you really do need the numbers. But lets explain it with math.

Q1. You put a point of Int in does your Matk go up by a % or does it increase by a flat value?

A: It increases by a flat value Raspy

Q2. If you increase your equipment what happens to the amount of damage that Int provides?

A: The proportion of damage that comes from my Int decreases because more damage is coming from my equipment Raspy.

So lets use some math to demonstrate this concept.

A level 115 Wizard with full Int and no matk from equipment does: 348 Matk
A level 115 Wizard with NO Int and no matk from equipment does: 125 Matk

We now know that the Int at level 115 gives a flat Matk value of: 223 Matk

We can say that with no gear at level 115 a Wizard with full Int gains 64% from Int.

Now lets put some typical equipment on that level 115 Wizard. Cafrisun Armor set, a level 5 Rod with two +4 Blue gems and a Arde Dagger.
So quick math 480 Matk + double Arde proc cause of Cafrisun effect + 12 Earth from Cafrisun.

So now our Wizard is doing a total of 798 damage with each attack. We’ve increase the damage the Wizard gets from gear. That Int still provides that same bonus of 223 since it doesn’t multiply anything. And is a flat bonus.

So now we can figure out that the Int provides only 28% of the Wizard’s damage.

Now lets say that Wizard continues to improve their gear gets a rod that’s actually the correct level for the character, upgrades it to +10 or something and starts getting bless and sacrament buffs from now… That 28% of the dmg coming from full Int will continue to decrease… Till it’s a very small % of the damage… something like 10-15% overall damage… And if we item treadmill even more at a particular level… That % will decrease EVEN MORE.

So you see when you’re stuck at a particular level and you keep upgrading your equipment. That Int is going to have less impact on your damage the more equipment you pile on. Int will continue to mean less and less as you upgrade your equipment without increasing your level.

tl;dr Int is a flat increase in damage and will do less proportional to how good your gear is.

Addition: To add to this you can look at Con as you increase armor. Your effective health will actually increase more as you gain more armor.

Say you’re blocking hits that would normally deal 100 damage and you have 1k HP. It takes 10 strikes to kill you.

You increase your armor to 50def. Now the mob takes 20 strikes to kill you. 50 armor increase the strikes to kill you by 10 with 1k HP.

Now lets say you have 2k HP because you invested some in your health. Mob starts out taking 20 strikes to kill you. With armor on the mob now takes 40 strikes to kill you.

So your EHP for 1k with 50def against 100 dmg hits is: 2000
And the EHP of the 2k HP guy with 50def would be: 4000

Now lets say 1k guy is wearing 75def: 4000EHP
and the 2k guy with 75def: 8000EHP

The guy with the HP is only going to get more crazy proportional to the guy that didn’t get HP.

Now if we’re talking about Full Int vs Full Con. Well that guy that went Full Int at 115 they are only ever going to have that 223 attack. That never gets better with gear outside of whether or not they’re using ignition. It’s always going to be the same amount of increased damage. While HP guy will always be increasing his EHP MORE as he gets better gear.

1 Like
#73

The fact that full CON wizards can exist and do decent damage is baffling. If anything, the flat damage of magic skills need to be reduced, while INT needs to be scaled so that it is meaningful at higher levels.

So yes, INT should be buffed in such a way that it’ll worth investing points into. At the same time however, the flat damage of magic skills needs to be reduced so that INT is actually needed in order to do any sort of decent damage. This will level the playing field with other classes, as wizards will no longer have the option of pumping only CON (just as other classes currently do not have the option of doing the same, without gimping their damage).

#74

My only point was that Int does in fact scale multiplicatively since Wiz spells are generally multihit spells. It’s a flat number that gets multiplied… so it stacks multiplicatively. Auto attacks with multihit features due to buffs and elemental bonus damage don’t calculate matk per hit afaik, so your cafrisun auto attack example doesn’t seem contextually appropriate.

#75

I agree with you, if they were to buff INT, they should make FULL CON wizards not a rewarding experience… I don’t mind FULL int mages not missing their spells, the problem comes when a full con cryo is able to dish damage and kill you in pvp(the same goes for ele3, etc), while having 25k hp or more.

edit: I know the post isn’t only about PvP, but I’m just making an example

#76

That’s not multiplying ANYTHING it’s BEING MULTIPLIED. It’s flat. You don’t call int a multiplier it’s a flat value. FLAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTt

#77

It’s multiplying your matk by the number of hits on the spell. The multiplier is the spell itself.

#78

Yes spell hits are multipliers is the Int the multiplier? No it’s fllllaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt. Like a pizza.

#79

Bruh, you gotta work on you’re reading comprehension, I’m not sure what else to tell you. I’ve been saying INT stacks multiplicatively with multihit spells.

As in, 500 int = 500 matk, which is 500 matk per hit, which is added to itself a number of times equal to the spell hits. That’s what multiplication is. Two hits is 500x2, 3 hits is 500x3. See what I’m saying?

#80

multiplier
[muhl-tuh-plahy-er]

noun
1.
a person or thing that multiplies.
2.
Arithmetic. a number by which another is multiplied.
3.
Physics. a device for intensifying some effect.

Lets look at that Arithmetic definition here… A number by which another is multiplied.

What does that mean Raspy?

It means when you INCREASE that number it multiplies the other numbers by that increased value!
Does matk multiply anything? No it does not it’s a flat value that is multiplied by other multipliers.

#81

Raspy, swallow your self-righteous pride for a moment and take a second to try to comprehend what the person you’re trying to lecture is saying: Int is a flat value that is multipled by spells hits, therefore it stacks multiplicatively with said spells because they are multipliers for that value.

That means having 500 int on a single hit is worth less compared to 500 int on a double hit.

#82

Raspy sounds like a cocky retarded child.

The point of this topic was not that INT affects magical damage poorly, it is about adding another effect to INT.

INT multipliers:

  • RANK: 1.6 x INT at rank 7

  • BONUS POINTS: You get bonus stat points from some amount invested. At 315 points you already have 500 INT and from there on it’s 2 INT for each point invested.

  • QUICKCAST ATTRIBUTE: +50% damage is a 1.5 x INT multiplier to add to to the end of magical calculation.

  • SKILL ATTRIBUTE: 2 x (INT + Base Damage) at level 100 attributes, basically another 2 x INT multiplier.

So, INT really does not act as a multiplier as it does for clerics on some of their skills, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it’s OWN multipliers, make the calculations with numbers above.

Assuming 315 base INT, 500 matq with bonus points.

rank added = 1.6 * 500 = 800 matq

skill attribute added = 2 * 800 = 1600 matq

quickcast attribute added = 1.5*1600 = 2400 matq

So, what were you saying again?

Reminder: The point of the topic is INT should have some other effect, like reducing cooldowns, resisting effects, give M.amp, anything, just because other stats do a lot more than give only ATK