Tree of Savior Forum

INT for Magic Defense

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#1

Simple comparison as people building characters right now.

Melee classes get bonus HP. They build dex builds and wear plate for stamina to sprint around, Physically they are impenetrable to pretty much everything.

I think most people will agree with me on that. Melees getting killed fast by other melee is doing something wrong. They need to be at the front.

Now we look at the mageclasses. Defensewise they get reflect shield. It only gets stronger and holds longer going wiz3 wich is a contradiction to a mage, Because if wizard stays this way noone will ever do c3 except crazy people…like me.

Furthermore most skills of mages have bad damage meaning we need alot of attributes meaning we need alot of INT to carry over to those attributes. That concludes that theres not much leftover to get some extra evasion some more mana and con for HP and carryweight.

Summary
Melees are almost invulnerable to other melees and vulnerable to magic
Mages are very vulnerable to melee and vulnerable to magic.

To swap this around and give mages the invulnerable to magic vulnerable to melee simply add 1 point of mdef with every INT point.

Discuss

1 Like
#2

There’s a lot of discussions about how INT needs to be more valuable compared to other stats.I think with all of the feedback from first and second beta about wizard’s and its branches they may tweak it accordingly.We can only hope so.

#3

INT cannot crit so I think the most simple solution is for int to give 2 matk per point. Although along with this buff should be nerf to Zaibas because atm, it deals so much damage that having INT give 2 matk per point would make the skill extremely overpowered.

#4

i think this goes for both str and int, but moreso for int for sure, maybe something like every 10 points of str you get an additional 5 atk and int gets +8 matk?

#5

This is a decent suggestion, but not enough.

Right now, ALL swordsmen are durable as hell for no investment. Even dedicated tanks can go 0 con and still be better than any other class with 1/3 of their points in con. That’s not right.

I believe that tanks should need con to perform well. Not just because they clicked “swordsman”. Likewise, clerics get bonus sp recovery just by being a cleric. No spr investment needed (at high levels anyways–low levels may still find spr useful). Archers and Wizard get nothing. They are shafted in the base hp/sp department. Wizard has it worse since it relies on stats with lower “value”.

I do agree that Int should do more. Especially since it’s the counterpart to Str, and Str does way more than Int. If you’re a class that uses a better stat, you will have an advantage over the other classes.

offensive stat balance - dex>str>int
defensive stat balance - it’s con>dex>spr

When players pick “Wizard” they are making a conscious choice to use a lot of skills. It’s what wizards do. They may also have an expectation to deal more aoe damage than other classes. Well… They get neither. Their skills have the longest cooldowns and the highest sp costs, so they absolutely cannot skill spam. Their aoe damage is also extremely lacking. Instead, they get linker. A support so strong, that with one move, it makes every wizard class tree from Rank 1 to Rank 6 look bad in comparison. Even then, it’s still not as good as Cleric’s Cure which scales extremely well into the end game, rivaling Druid’s Carnivory. Ugh.

Tos. A game where Clerics out dps Wizards and Wizards support. Still not as good as clerics.

3 Likes
#6

CON and STR gives no armor and magic can’t miss thus which led them to let the SPR stat give MDEF. Giving MDEF for INT would make the game completely unbalance; wizards wont be able to kill wizards. What needs to happen with INT is to let it increase Magic Amplification by 0.5-1 each status points so they can make up with their lack of crit and their unsatisfied damage

#7

I think that con should give phys def, and spr give magic defense. right now defense is garbage. its dodge or stack enough health to live. The problem is that if you stack con you have to sit at a bonfire forever.

Basically this is a linear game. Monster damage scales up, but our defense does not. So to deal with this we stack offense and kill stuff before it kills us.

1 Like
#8

i believe the biggesst issue is the way skills calculate damage.
now i dont know the exact formula ToS uses, but i think all skills should scale with a % of your atk, or matk, + a base value, for example, Swordsmans “Thrust” could be something like: Level 1 - 80% atk + 50 | Level 5 - 90% atk + 100.
This is just an example, but this would make both int and str more impactfull early on, and early skills still relevant in endgame

#9

Aint it that Mages get bonus Magic Def as they level? I’ve read in somewhere in-game

#10

they do :
The Magic Defense formula is as follows: (Level / 2) + (MNA / 5) [ + (Level / 4) for Wizards

#11

As a wizard myself, I would like to be “strong” vs other caster mobs. At the moment I dislike any mobs that are ranged (physical and magical).

#12

everytime when someone said co one go wizC3 they not looking at me and there more wizC3 out there.
my build now is wiz3 ele2 15shield 15sleep 150spr 70int 30con.
problem because some1 didnt even try playing so they set this class is useless.
wiz3 isn’t that bad and there a lot strong point even PVE or PVP.
with reduce cast by50% this skill add 50% to magic damage out too Meteor can hit more then 30000 even low int like me and sleep can stop mob for 15sec(free 15hits be4 mob awake) with reflect shield lv15 (9hits blocking no-cast cancel after got hit which can reflect any damage to owner)
i didnt see any problem and the build is really strong even boss
only 1 problem for Mage is a skill delay.
its not Ragnarok its Tree of savior

#13

I couldnt agree more, as c1 pyro i once partied with a c2 wiz and was shocked that she could still overkill and oneshot mobs more than i can. it was then the greatest shock of my life, i LOLed my self.

#14

@dysa you probably wanted to reply to another thread?

Your post is way offtopic. Your build is solid nothing special and you think you do alot of damage, but the long cooldowns make your dps go down compared to other builds.

Not saying you shouldnt play this build its freedom of choice.

@eduardo_r_gyn nice find I didnt know that.
As a subjective experience I would say its not enough with our little HP pool.

While melees get some evasion at least magic cannot be evaded. It seems out of balance.

On a sidenote, I have a lvl 144 hoplite now and I am just in demon prison as I was with my other mage character before.

With the hoplite I can stand inside a group of spiders trying to hit me like 5+ spiders.
And they will not kill me in ages with no single point in Con.
Now on the other hand when you for example enter main chamber and get surrounded by loflems as a mage it takes 3 seconds for you to freeze and die.

Thats not balance in my opinion.

#15

True, Wizards can have the same resistence of swordsman at the cost of even lesss damage.
I build my wizard around Con and its very strong but has ofc downsides of a bit lower damage.

#16

dear @ctdde it may be like u said. and i just want to defense this wizC3 class. many want Mage class to be more OP since they compare this game to RO but status build is not really useless until u take enough effort to it. when i see every1 talk about how this game bad and support are trash it make me want to say something. according to topic i against int increase M-def since cleric root use SPR too. all mages should be more care in defense themselves not like looking to build godlike status.

#17

True, Wizards are niche and good at the moment even with all those problems, if they remove the buggs from it can be fairly good. Iam pretty sure hey wont be able to make every rank worth, they will lose alot of time trying to balance it.

#18

My suggestion

  • INT adjustment should based on amplification, no change is needed until end game amplification balance is known.
  • DEX to reduce magical status effect duration/resistance, such as sleep, hex, froze, death sentence, etc. You can hit hard by magic without sustain, but you will not be standing still for being killed.
  • Skills scale with MP usage. Every 10 STR/INT increase mana usage by 1.

Melee classes in DEX can survive with monsters doing physical/auto attack, but when against magical, they are pretty much dead.

And I disagree making INT class a single stats class when every stats needs another one to support. The STR vs CON vs DEX is more balance, because it is a triangle relationship. They should also make INT vs SPR vs DEX (RO works with DEX being cast time, but they opt for scaling unlimited level).

The current best stats as follow (PvP consideration included):
CON - defense against physical, and increase HP will help against magic. The most effective stats. Diminish return on putting too much, which makes it balance.

INT/STR - both are offensive stats, and you need this to increase damage. The effectiveness cannot be shown until higher level (~100 points difference for damage). May need slightly boost, but higher level may see bigger difference. INT has the advantage with SPR being less useful and amplification .

DEX - dodge against physical, and increase crit chance slightly. The effectiveness cannot be shown until higher level (~100 points difference for dodge, ~200 points difference for crit). Until they add some synergy against magic, as I believe higher level will have more range magic.

…

SPR - magic defense and MP. Diminish return in putting more than half. MP usage does not increase, and defense against one type.

INT vs STR vs Crit
Corrected:

  • I think offensive stats are pretty much at the same level. You need ~200 points difference to see the effectiveness.
  • INT has cast time, but with high amplification at higher level, it can be much stronger due to multiplication.
  • STR attacks maybe stronger for now, but they also risk for being close range. Their multiplication is size, and the ratio will not be increased
  • Crit being strong, but only limit to melee.

SPR vs CON vs DEX
Corrected:

  • The scale of CON is crazy, most feedback from PvP are CON being very important.
  • DEX is not effective against magic, but since it has offensive stats to balance itself, so it should be the least to consider
  • SPR is very ineffective, particularly when amplification is not strong. There is diminish return in putting more for MP, and diminish return on limited skills. Magic defense is very strong, but being single purpose.
#19

The power of Wiz c3 build is in overkilling stuff, but they deal much lesser overall damage when compared to other wizard class.

#20

You keep mentioning amplification. Int does not provide it. Amp doesn’t even multiply anything. It’s just a fancy word for + max damage for magic. Its expected value is 1/2 matk. Int only provides 1.5 matk. Nothing more, nothing less. Str provides 1 min and max attack, carry weight, crit damage, and every 5 points adds 1 def. That’s why it’s better. Ignore everything else. The amount of increase seen on the stats page is the only thing I am considering when making these comparisons.

Atk can be multiplied through crit but can miss. However since crit and accuracy are on the same freaking stat, it’s never a problem.

Magic has no mechanic that multiplies its effectiveness. Only multi-hits, but atk has access to that too.

Str > Int in terms of stat balance. You’re also factoring in classes and skills, which is outside the scope of my measurement. You mention str is limited to melee but you ignore the entire archer tree. Plenty of magic is melee range: ice pike, fire ball, gust, snow rolling, zaibas, cure, heal, possession, and arguably earthquake.

Idk why you attempted to correct my defensive stat balance when it’s exactly the same as yours.