Tree of Savior Forum

IMC, let us repick jobs with TP

I just want to add one thing before i go to sleep… this is to the two of you arguing. Both of you have stated that circle resets arent bad as long as there are restrictions. At least i think ive read that somewhere from both of you. So you should be trying to come up with a good idea instead of arguing about nothing.

I think circle resets should only be to maybe fix a few circles that you may be unhappy with and not the ability to completely switch up your build.

You want to be a C3 summoner with cryo3? thats your class. Just like you cant switch from rogue to warrior in wow, you cant switch to Pyro3 ele3 because that would be a completely different class with a completely different playstyle. You would need to start another character if you want this.

I can understand if peoples builds are screwed up because of one or 2 circles and they want to change it. This makes sense to me. Or if they pick warlock and warlock C2 sucks they wont want to completely reroll for one circle.

This is why i think it should be limited to 3 rank resets per character. And maybe an additional one with new classes released. My second post in this thread outlines what i think would be perfect. It was made by someone else though.

Edit: I just thought of something else that would be cool. If they do implement something like i posted, they should give a title to display on your character if you have no resets. Once you use a rank reset you cant use it anymore. this might be a rare thing to have once the level cap is 600 :slight_smile:

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There were people arguing that it is, though. Both explicitly calling it P2W, or buying an unfair advantage over free players.

Yeah, but by then it’s too late because you already screwed up your build the first time. So… you can’t make any more decisions about your character’s classes. But you can reset stats and skill points.

Which means you can live with your mistakes, hide those mistakes by making a new character, or quit the game. Adding a reset option just means there’s one more thing to pick. All of these have pros and cons to them, and I don’t think any should be the obvious best choice.

While I agree many people will want a reset after their main class got nerfed, I’m not convinced the majority would be flavor of the month types.

Unless you think it’s not “fun” to weigh two viable options based on your perceived pros and cons of each, then ultimately committing to a choice you think you might like better. Is it wrong to want to undo that choice if you find out you didn’t actually like what you picked as much as you thought, or one or the other got a buff/nerf after you made your choice?

I don’t think it’s very fun to end up as something I never expected to be. All the research in the world won’t give you active experience playing as the class. You could imagine it might be fun, but then it isn’t really. Or it could be fun to play until it changes suddenly. Doesn’t even have to be about raw power, maybe you thought a skill sounded really cool, but you ended up relying on something else more often and now you don’t need both. You can calculate cooldown rotations and SP management all day, but if it doesn’t feel smooth in actual combat then you’re stuck looking over where the grass is greener.

Not everyone who picks an OP class did so solely because it’s OP. Sure the ones who just happened to like it for something other than power might not want a reset after a nerf, but a significant change could still change their minds. There’s also people who just follow guides for a safe pick because there are no resets. What classes are most wanted in endgame dungeon parties? What’s a safe build that I can’t possibly mess up? To avoid the worst case scenario of being stuck with a worthless experimental build, they research beforehand to find the best one for their role. And all that effort could be for nothing after any given patch.

Not having to spend TP? Easier dungeon runs? More experience with the circles themselves? More money from an economy class?

And if there’s some additional drawback to resets, then there’s that too. If you leveled as a harder class the first time, you get EXP cards and lower level scaling. If you have to grind back up after switching then it could be just as hard or harder. Plus the more drastic your new build is from your old one, the harder or more expensive it is to switch.

I agree that simply feeding in a filled out skill simulator at the click of a button and poof you’re capped again is excessive baby mode. Unless people are paying like $100 a pop with some reasonable alternative for much cheaper then I’m strictly against it. Even still I’d feel obligated to ridicule anyone who used it. It should save how many resets a player’s bought in their info page and give them a permanent title so everyone knows they paid to avoid playing the game.

I think that would appease quite a few people, actually. Everyone who thinks “I wish I took Pelt C1 way back when!” or “I never knew Cleric C2 was mandatory for real content!” would get everything they ever wanted. Or if some patch takes a C1 skill and dumps it into a C2 you never had, breaking your entire build.

You could swap rank 7 every month, or switch your C2s and C3s around to slightly alter your build, or rotate out that C1 you picked up for a single skill that wasn’t really worth it in the end.

Limiting it to one class per month would also be pretty interesting. You could drop up to 3 circles as long as it’s the same class, although it should still be more expensive for 2 and 3. You’d still be more than half of what you were before (or would be by endgame), but with a different base kit with the same core skill, or vice versa.

Out-of-combat classes are fair game, though. Just Templars present a problem with active guilds, but if there’s clear warning that you can’t reset without disbanding the guild then it should be fine. Anything else wouldn’t really be viable since you obviously can’t use the OoC skills once you reset them away, and switching back and forth quickly becomes worse than having an alt or reselling tokens. A reset would only be desirable to switch to/from such classes once and never again (or a very long time after a much thought).

+1 to this. Not everyone has the time to level again a new character. i’m just saying.

How would you guys like this system: On rank up you select one class as usual and level it - however the decision is only final when you select the next class advancement.

At this point you could still swap it around without a loss so people can test if they like something - if not allright you can swap away a single time.

I dislike this idea.

Honestly I am fine with a complete class reset, so long as you have to level your class level back up from rank 1.

It’s unfair otherwise and easy to abuse. Even if you implement weekly single circles (which is just timegating for the sake of timegating) or limit the reset to a single circle (which is half-baked. Either do a full reset or don’t do one).

I have no problem if people want to try a whole new class path out on the same character, but they should have to put in the work to get there again. I don’t want to see a bunch of full support builds get to the top without having put in the work. It’s just promotes builds which are the fastest leveling to be used and encourages a reset into something more viable at endgame later. That’s simply not good.

Class reset is a too strange concept for ToS and should be not even considered.
Also please do not refer to leveling as “Work” games are entertainment, not work. And anytime you’re not having fun you probably shouldn’t be playing. There is no endgame, just a wall for future areas, quests and classes.

3 Likes

Hm I can see us being able to pick another class in the future. I believe we spoke about this during CBT when some of us agreed that it would actually make IMC a lot of cash to be able to pick a new class.

I’m fine with it but I do think there should be some kind of punishment for resetting a class. Like losing an entire rank for doing so.

I dislike the idea of a full circle reset. However, single circle resets with a long ass cooldown would be nice to repair “small” mistakes without having to start all over again. You name the requirements (lots of Silver, TP, quests, praise Satan).

Also, since then. Has IMC stated anything in regards of this subject? It’s been a while since Close Beta and I know this was suggested before. The huge problem I see with this is code-wise, mostly.

not a fan of changing our circles

Afaik only in arena… and it was a needed change. I actually think it would be needed in GvG too.
Also it didn’t turn out to be bad…just not OP anymore.

I understand that it can also mean someone would want to change to another (current cookiecutter) class…and I’m not even against it if it is done the right way.

Just don’t overdramatize this. Because actually it was needed and also expected for PD.

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Just make it full class reset and limit it to two per year or something.

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yes! just 1 per account will be enough.

I don’t agree at all. I can understand resetting skill points and stats, I think those should be available, but maybe more expensive to do so as at current it’s very cheap and can be done over and over.

However, resetting class choices would defeat any real effort put in the game. In my opinion it’s a very small jump from “reset your class choices” to “give us max level potion for TP”. It really does take away from any MMO’s experience to eliminate the effort/leveling process. I don’t even like most MMORPGs these days as the leveling is a chore rather than an experience with the game. Max level is there and achievable in a day most of the time and it’s boring as crap.

Allowing a trivialization of the class system would hurt the game immensely and I doubt any long term player agree, only players who play MMOs for a couple of weeks and quit would agree that it’s wanted.

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This is such a farce.

Having an ability to change classes (especially if it’s a paid option) does not automatically sully and ruin all feeling of accomplishment of effort you’ve put in to your character, nor does it have this effect on others.

Proof?

Look at the hundreds of other mmos that allow build/talent/spec/whatever resets for either a cash item, in-game currency, or plain just talking to a dude for free.

I have never once in my life seen anyone complain about the ability to do so.

I guarantee that you will not feel slighted one single bit if I were to buy a class circle reset and use it. You won’t even notice. You won’t even shed a tear.

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Stat reset is acceptable but not this class reset. Choosing classes is a big thing that you have to consider carefully before playing. Having made many mistakes? just create a new character. This game will be destroyed if people can re-pick their jobs easily.

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because all the threads in all those games where people complain that the class resets there make leveling up equally cheap and meaningless… well they just don’t count, right?

right now, if you want to level up as certain classes/builds, it can be very difficult. this makes it very meaningful for the amount of effort/patience/whatever those people put into leveling that class.

if job reset becomes a thing, we’ll just watch the bots for a while, see what’s easiest to level up as… and then copy that. everyone will level up as the same “easiest leveling” build for their base class, and then just pay to reset to the class they want to be.

one of the major design thoughts behind the game appears to be to make your class choices really -matter-… and allowing class resets would mean they instantly no longer have any deep meaning.

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I think this is poor reasoning though because it shouldn’t be tougher for another class to level. That’s a balance problem at the very root, and hence shouldn’t factor in to the viability of such an option being in the game.

why not?

an FS cleric/etc should be able to fight just as easily as a DPS-focused swordie or mage?
my glass-cannon pure int mage should be able to tough it out just as easily as my con-heavy priest tank?

hell if you want to go that route, then we should only have a single class, or every class should just have copy-cat abilities.
what’s the point of having all these different classes if in the end there’s no real differences between them?

you can’t have differences between classes AND not have differences between the classes at the same time.
“balance” should not mean “bulldoze everything till it’s all the same.”

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And you would be very wrong. If I say, put a lot of effort into a really awkward class to level, a complete and utter support character with no real grinding potential in and of itself, purely for group oriented activities, I would really appreciate the value that gives me as a player who put in that effort.
If someone could level as a full solo oriented class combo, then simply switch their entire class to my previously really-hard-to-achieve-without-patience class combo, I would feel quite upset about it.

You might say “but if it were that way from the beginning, then you wouldn’t care”, you would be very right, but I would also find the game INFINITELY less appealing on a design level.

Homogenizing things just isn’t a good idea. WoW has suffered from it since Cataclysm, they made things far too achievable for every single player in the game, no matter their available time to play, their skill level, their level of patience, or anything else. Everyone can raid, everyone can do heroics, everyone can pvp and be rewarded, etc…

What’s fun about MMORPGs is they’re meant to be a virtual online world where people are recognized for their attributes, their social differences and etc in a different setting to that of real life. When you sap out even those unique traits of each person and just allow everyone to do and be everything, it becomes a very boring environment.

To re-iterate on something. What’s appealing to a lot of the people who play this type of MMORPG, is the bounds of option you can have. Not the ability to play them all, but the potential to do something someone else hasn’t or very few people have.

If I wanted to play another MMORPG that allowed me to just switch what I chose to do all the time, I would… well I wouldn’t have downloaded this and started playing it, I would have stuck to one of those.

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