Tree of Savior Forum

IMC, let us repick jobs with TP

General Discussion
#181

What you desire is a plan that benefits a lot less people than it hurts.

Due to balance, people are going to run in to build failures more often than they will find some secret hot-seat build due to wacky experimentation.

The probability is exponentially higher to run in to dead-end builds as opposed to unknown secretly awesome builds nobody knew about. It’s extremely unlikely at this point.

What you desire can only exist in a game with perfect class balance (which no game has, and Tree isn’t even coming close).

This is an unreasonable desire not rooted in reality.

#182

This is the exact reason why it needs to be in the game lmao

you’d get more builds and variety BECAUSE people would feel more comfortable with experimenting.

The way it is right now you are only going to see the same 5 builds “late game” because everyone is going to research guides to avoid screwing up.

You want variety? Allow people to experiment.

#183

what people don’t seem to understand is that the way the game works right now we’re not going to be able to minmax classes or try out new combos, why? because not everyone has 200+ spare hours that they can waste just so they can test IF something different works, sure we can test on paper, but with skills being so vagely described it’s imposible to really plan ahead, for example, I was planing on going wiz c3 > ele c3 > runecaster because of the rune of ice, in the decription it says it doesn’t affect deployment magic, which you would think means summons and deploy-able tourrets and whatnot, but guess what? that’s not it, frost cloud and hail are not affected by rune of ice because they’re gound targeted AoE, and aparently that counts as deployment magic for some reason, I work so I don’t have the time to invest in order to re-level a wizard just because that doesn’t work, the game’s been out for a month and just now I reached 140 hours because all I play is ToS, so I’m still at elementalist c3, which means I realized in time to prevent making the mistake of going runecaster, some people might not be as lucky, and tbh if I had realized this after becoming runecaster I would just quit entirely, because I’m not interested in starting from scratch with another character, having lost NOT only the month I spent leveling the character, but also all my premium items/silver that I can’t transfer to this new character because I was mislead by skill descriptions.

and I assure you there’s going to be literally thousands of people that are going to be in that same situation in the future, because you’re not supposed to read every guide and check every availeable resource to you before TRYING OUT a game you’re not even sure you’re going to play.

That means if IMC doesn’t include a failsafe option for situations like the one I mentiond, they’re going to scare off hundreds if not thousands of potential players/costumers

#184

No you are wrong. Everyone will just use the same build to level up to 280 and then switch to the build they want to play.

Most likely you will still see the same 5 builds or so in the late game even when people can switch class freely, unless you are expecting IMC to balance every class in this game.

The game will die a lot faster because everyone only need one level 280. Who is gonna level with the newcomers that came into the game late? Playing alt is actually fun for some people when u get tired of grinding and pvp, or waiting for the world boss to spawn.

I hate when people complain about class getting nerf, because this is part of the feature in mmorpg, you shouldn’t be expecting your class to be op forever.

#185

Not really. Those top builds also came to fruition without any kind of reset mechanism in place. Unless of course you can tell me that it is not possible to come up with new builds unless there are reset mechanisms.

Look at the D3 classic example. They allow skills resets at anytime. Are there more new builds? What build is worth remembering? Barb, DH, Wiz? Of my 4-5k hours in there is really nothing except for base characters + cookie cutter builds.

I would like ToS to be “wow that chronomancer is so cool” rather than “oh a wizard spec into chrono circle is cool”. The name of the class becomes the defining feature rather than the base class defines it.

The game is set up in a way that it requires players to think and read up. It is meant to be enjoyed even when a build is spec wrongly. Hence there are so many skills which has a strong base attack even when the player is not properly stat’ed into that particular stat. (eg. Dievdirby’s carve deals tons of melee damage even when strength is minimal). The game encourages players to explore, from the exploration dungeons to the player’s own build.

3 Likes
#186

I fail to understand how this will be boring. why?

  • Those who enjoy leveling can completely opt to not get the reset item from cash shop. Nothing has changed for players with this kind of mentality.
  • Those who find restarting the same class boring and tiresome would be the ones to get the item, at the same time support the game as well.

I see some posts where players say you don’t deserve a reset cause you choose OP build, go start over again. Guess what, this guy will go for the next OP build and the cycle goes on. In the end what has changed?

What’s your problem in players picking the meta? it’s not like they got to the level without any effort and now they are getting a reset without any expense.

My case: I am casual player, willing to gladly support the game. Not much free time, may be 15-20 hours a week. I probably picked the worst pve class (Archer2–>QS–>Scout–>Rogue --> Rogue). I am willing to sacrifice to have fun in pvp. Not some ninja nerfs and rage quit cause your effort is been futile.

what I hate

  • killing the same mob over and over and over with same set of rotations, waiting and fighting for respawn. lets have the f2p gates open and see how worse this is going to get

what I love is

  • to play this game for pvp and guild wars.
  • Make multiple classes, learn in and outs of different classes, different builds and in the end, have fun in pvp.

I will make a wild guess. This item will generate huge revenue for IMC. And I only see them adding it in near future.
For sadistic pleasures, make this item totally untradable

TLDR: REMEMBER, TOS IS NOT A FINISHED PRODUCT AND THERE WILL BE CHANGES OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

#187

you sir needs to think one more time.
In the end the guy will play what he wants to play. So like you claim, there wlll only be 5 builds in the end.

This is true. But, what has this got to do with reset? I will still make an alt no matter.

#188

also another thing people seem to think is that we want the item to cost like 1tp and have no restrictions.

the item should cost 200~500TP and it should only allow you to repick jobs from your base class, so you can’t level a barbarian and then reroll to priest, if you want a cleric, you HAVE to HAVE a cleric first, and so on.

edit: if the item where to cost let’s say 500TP that’s $50, so for all the people saying “people would only level a certain class and then reroll” I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t waste $50 just to level an alt… I mean ■■■■, people were complaining A LOT about the founder pack’s price and that was $30~$50 aswell, can you imagine those same people just spending the same ammount willy nilly just to level an alt? I don’t think so

1 Like
#189

Cause it will upset the balance of the game. Anyone can just create a character with the best leveling build, reach max level and reset it to what they want. Crafting classes will take a huge hit as any other character can just reset to their build and make their own potions/gems/awakened items etc. If everyone can do everything, what is the use of having diversity? Boring right?

Personally I’m not opposed to having a class circle reset potion. But it shouldn’t be a TP item. It can be a 100-hour class reset quest or have some significant effort involved other than involving real life $. Like a straight drop to that circle’s level and grind back without reseting any quests or anything.

TP purchased item is just too easy to get no matter how you price it, even if it is priced at an expensive 5000TP per reset.

4 Likes
#190

how do you reset your 3rd circle when your circle 6? do you just get max lvl circle 3 circle 4 circle 5 circle 6 points? I dont like this… at the very least you can reset 1 previous circle, and you need to relvl it. lets say you are circle 6, 1 potion will reset your circle 6 choice, you are at lvl 1 circle 6… from there you can buy another circle reset potion and it brings you to circle 5 lvl 1. so if you want to reset many circles, it costs a significant amount of money.

to me this is really acceptable, as you will have to relvl your circles with job exp… and when your a really high lvl, you get to cut the time spent doing that because your kills reward a significant amount of job exp per kill. so thats partly good. They could also make it where when you reset your circles at a higher job lvl, the job exp per each lvl is equivalent to your current class lvl/job lvl status. Like what it would take to lvl circle 7 jobs, it takes as long to re lvl your circle 3 4 5 6

#191

i do not agree the whole idea of paying TP for reset circle but a wise circle reset many 1/2 would be still fine.

those classes like what i’m playing as a c3 peltasta full tank and cleric’s player…who spends hundred of hour (2 / 3 x time ) searching/killing “some” MOB until dawn to get that 1 lvl…

now everyone just go dps! pay up to change classes!?
make a new dude! do some homework before u do advancement!

#192

You literally can’t say that i’m wrong when it hasn’t happened and you have no evidence to back up that it will happen.

Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean that you are right.

I feel like i’m being donald trump’d by the people in this thread lmao

Whining because they don’t want people to have things easier

#193

can you not bring politics into this… your view is your view. its not right. its not wrong. its just your view… dont bring that crap here.

#194

umm so what is changing without reset?
Assume Alchemist is the hardest class to level up and without reset, I will plan and go straight for alchemist.
with reset, I(speaking for myself) would probaly pick a full support or a dps, something that helps with leveling and change to alchemist.
so what has changed in the above 2 scenario? In the end, I am still playing what I find is fun.

you forget, I would be supporting the game with the reset item. So free players can enjoy as well.

#195

and as far as the situation goes where “people will just switch to alchemist and make their own potions and then switch back!!!”

THATS WHY YOU PUT A COOLDOWN ON THE CLASS CHANGE

#196

wow… this conversation is still going on?

oh wait after reading I see it’s a 3-4 person conversation.

Such a nice long thread where 3-4 peoples argues about Circle Reset, a features that would destroy the game if implemented badly.

Trivializing gaming experience is the number one priority of those that claim they need those kind of changes.

The main arguments I see here is that if I didn’t pick the BEST COOKIE CUTTER build I must come to the forum and whine for cricles reset. Because obviously I’m always entitled to play the FOTM class combo.

If my class get nerfed because it was too OP, I must be able to change to the next OP class otherwise it’s not fair!

I don’t see any valid reason except for when new class are introduced and I do believe that only then they should allow some form of reset.

My2cents.

1 Like
#197

[quote=“bokunokan, post:196, topic:210568”]features that would destroy the game if implemented badly.
[/quote]

Yes, which is the reason we’re talking about how can it be restricted and limited.

Not really, it’s to have a fail-safe for mistakes and to have options when new classes/circles are released, and such there should be restrictions

What I for example am asking for is to have a way to fix mistakes caused by the misleading and vague description of the skills, like the example of the runecaster I mentioned earlier.

Not really what I would like the feature to exist for, but there will be people like that no matter how you look at it or how do they implement it.

here’s 1:

#198

Here is another viewpoint.
Also the argument you seem to be missing.

A lot of people are trying to play AWAY from cookiecutter. They desire the 67 of 75 class options to be as VIABLE as the 2 options that are dishing out retarded dmg, or bringing something WORTHY to the table. EX: some forgo dmg circles for teamplay abilities. some forgo glass cannon for this buff setup/combo…

This makes sense. The problem is balance isnt there. IT IS NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO KEEP UP WITH MAX DMG OR MAX POTENCY. Its exactly that people want all of the options available to be WORTHWHILE… ((PATH OF EXILE EXECUTES THIS PERFECTLY))

An archer example for you. The archers that want to go rogue is going rogue for 2 reasons… backstab dmg. and burrow. However. this game doesnt balance backstab within itself and with other classes… For backstab to even be worthwhile, you need a Karacha set. So balance is based on items… SUPER WEIRD…(and you now have to rely on a karacha 2 karacha 3 karacha 4 set throughout your 600 lvls)… Now to Burrow… Burrow never indicates (similar to kneeling shot) that 5/6 of all your skills wont work while burrowed… Basically saying all of the skills that make you strong(or equivalent to other ppl) dont work when burrowed… You just wasted 400 hours to find that out, and the whole path is lackluster. Kneeling shot is similar, however you get it at circle 2 archer… SOO early in the game that it doesnt matter. And you are never handicapped because of your circle 2 archer choice. You can restart and have your char back in 30 minutes.

That’s just archer examples. there are examples of this happening in every class.

So to recap,

  1. IMC needs to be 100% clear on their skills and how they synergize. Because of the lack of clarity people are making decisions based on the lack of clarity. (3rd party webbies arent sufficient enough either yet.) The skills are already in the game and function a certain way. Explaining how they function exactly isnt hard or a stretch of expectations.

  2. Because IMC will undoubtedly go through changes with classes they should offer job resets somehow. An example is you going to 3rd circle for an obscure but rewarding skill only to find that IMC changes it to circle two 3 months later. Had you have started your char 3 months after the fact, you could have changed up your strategy on a char that you have invested 2000 hours into on your lvl 600 character.

In a game like this you should reward older players/characters. You should NEVER benefit the new player over the person that dedicates more of their time into a game. Ive played a game that did the exact opposite of what im saying here… Once a decision was made it was made forever… 3 years later the games rehauls a class… all of the old dedicated players are missing 3 major skills that werent available at the time. And they are significantly missing out on a huge portion of their class dmg because of changes… Because of these changes, ppl that have 300 hours logged are killing players that have 1900 hours logged all because of changes made within the game but not giving the older players an option to revert or relearn the newer skills they missed out on.

#199

Why will it be destroyed?

#200

Yeah… you used an OP meta class for a good amount of time then when sht hits the fan, you dip away. Nah dude lol. What about the other peeps who stuck to their non meta build and got denied party invites because everyone wants a specific build to their party. BTW, PD is still decent after the nerf. If you want a circle reset, then the class lvl must reset to 1 again so you don’t just get a free pass on fking up because you have TP.