IMC Fail Again and Again and Again

[treefosavior]

abusers

People who “Intentionally took advantage of the bug” it seem that among all your own ideas of what is the politically correct meaning of the word, you are pushing your own meaning on words.

Player A has no way of knowing the dev’s intent.

Also you are the one that dont seem to understand, the moment the person says “I read the girl is bugged” they would know the intent of the Dev was not to give out 1000 pract. Why? Because a bug is never the intent of the Dev Team. Again your own PoV is clouding a really easy to spot analogy to differentiate between a genuine person that was not aware of the DKP bug and a person that was aware of it and decided to benefit from it.

Facade-means to show a front while there is nothing behind it. Hence my use to the word is spot on, as i referred to player that “KNOWINGLY” took advantage of the bug as “ABUSERS”, while using the excuse im just another player that had no idea my bag was full of purple cubes AKA appearing “INNOCENT” as a facade.

in this case to be innocent, so you can’t base your idea of “abuse” on their intentions.

^ From what we know this makes no sense at all, the Dev have stated in multiple announcement that the DKP items dropping so often was not their intention at all AKA DKP ratio BUG. The fact they blocked account to remove excess items speaks of their intentions as well.

Regardless of IMC determining many account innocent, there are many confirm post of player stating themselves “I abused on purpose and kept all my items”, just take a minute to skin through other threads on the forum. Plus on the facebook page, there is tons more claiming how they got away with getting tons of items and not getting banned or blocked.

Edit: TLDR, I just realized after reading all 4 of our comment that the one thing you still dont seem to get a hold off, is the difference between someone doing something while knowing is wrong while another does it without knowledge he is breaking the rules.

[RoastedPeanuts]

IMC failed again with lagfest

[treefosavior]

Proving intent conclusively is impossible. Furthermore, the “bug” was also outside the players control. They could not directly influence drop rate outside of skills that explicitly did so as part of normal game mechanics. By judging " intent" of a player from game logs, the GM’s (who represent IMC) are performing a witch hunt where guilt is assumed and they are trying to justify after the fact. This is especially troubling as all actions taken by players are within the rules of the game.

I dont disagree that proving intent is hard w.o any hard evidence, which the logs of a game wont necessarily show, what they do show is patterns. If you are a player that hunts items constantly while you are online. Logs of 1 week will reflect that, while a players that only took to farming because he read the drop rates were bugged, will have no pattern showing he actively hunts for items.

At the same time, the intent of many players have been clear as there have been countless post of people bragging about taking advantage of the bug knowingly and keep/using their item to profit.
The hard work is for IMC to distinguish between accidental victims and people that actively attempted to profit after knowing the drop was broken.

[CanelaTeam]

Cool is that the money invested to open the box does not and will not be returned, if it was a mistake the irregular dpk besides the items being removed as they were being returned the opening money box and refinement, not everyone knew of the bug and They were just playing. Because the error came from you not from the players

[Aegrus]

You don’t spend silver to open hunting ground cubes, and you don’t have an option to “reroll” for silver.

[CanelaTeam]

identify items, u’re not smart

[trielav]

is the difference between someone doing something while knowing is wrong

You’re trying to equate wrong in terms of game design with both wrong in terms of rules and wrong in terms of ethics. They’re different. It’s possible for something to be contrary to the game design but still allowed. In the case in question here, IMC explicitly said the blocked accounts were not banned and gave most of them compensation, which means their stance is compensated players weren’t abusing.

They haven’t explained exactly what they will count as abuse, but I expect players who get banned will be ones who sold items deceptively to people who didn’t know about the easy access since that action has a victim. I expect group C members who gave free items to friends and guildies to be set free.

Out of curiosity, can you clarify whether you think the following are abuse?

• By Player A’s standards, using hidden interactions between skills (For the sake of argument, let’s ignore interactions with their own animations and focus on ones like feint-barrage which some people have called bugged before)
• At one point, snow rolling casting was no longer interrupted by incoming damage. When the bug went in, many people thought it was a buff, but it got fixed shortly afterwards. Was using that to get an advantage in combat abuse?
• People who opened expired practonium cubes back when they didn’t actually expire
• Anyone who zones into a TBL match with fewer opponents on the other side would be abusing if they don’t leave the match.

[treefosavior]

I have no problem actually talking to you about all of that, in the sense that it literally serves no purpose as a discussion, PM if you really want to know about my opinion.

IMC explicitly said the blocked accounts were not banned and gave most of them compensation, which means their stance is compensated players weren’t abusing.

^ Im sorry to say that you have little idea of whats going on. TLDR IMC was ill prepared to deal with the current situation to the point they cant even figure out who abuse and who didn’t, in order to stop forum flaming Blocking account serve as a way to show something was being done.

-IMC defined abuse as farming the items and using them to profit (Is on the announcement page). AKA if you sold them on the market or craft more than 1 item with it.

-The community see all people that “KNOWINGLY” (I feel the that word means nothing to some people IMO) took advantage of the situation and follow to brag about it. Resulting on players feeling like IMC fail to deal with “Abusers” properly.

IMC unblocked and overly rewarded those player that even though they KNEW (again that word that seems to mean nothing) the drop were broken took to farming, but kept their items in case there would be a backlash. On top of the fact they get to keep 1 of each, they got a F ton of rewards.

^Many players myself included feel that was a mistake, as those players were not ignorant or got the items by accident. Those are the ones i call “ABUSERS” hiding behind a 'VICTIM" facade.(There is plenty of post by those players bragging how they knew about the bug, exploited it, and got to keep 1 item+ compensation. That support my statement).

PS: In case you find to much of a pain to have your rhetorical question answered in a manner of discussion the factor that changes what i think about all your scenarios is if the person “KNEW” or not.

[victormorelli6]

Good heavens, are you still trying to put the fault on players? You’ve got an overdeveloped sense of vengeance, that’s going to get you nowhere. They did the update without even testing it, they allowed their mistake to stay online over than 12 hours. They tried to get the items and failed. Now they are holding a few accounts to make a few numbers to say they are competent to do something.

[trielav]

TLDR IMC was ill prepared to deal with the current situation to the point they cant even figure out who abuse and who didn’t, in order to stop forum flaming Blocking account serve as a way to show something was being done.

They can figure it out, and figuring it out is the purpose of the extended blocking. If they just wanted to show something was being done, they wouldn’t have used measures that warrant additional compensation.

-IMC defined abuse as farming the items and using them to profit (Is on the announcement page). AKA if you sold them on the market or craft more than 1 item with it.

This contradicts https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1010

In this category, users that have more than half of the irregular items in their inventory will have them collected and others that have either consumed or modified the items but still have them in their accounts will have their accounts unlocked and compensation will be given based on the length of time their account was locked.

Crafting your stuff while keeping it in the account isn’t banned.

[quote]Also, please refrain from using or consuming the problematic items as this will extend the time needed for us to investigate and clear these accounts.
[/quote]
This clarifies that crafting just slows down investigations and isn’t a bannable offense itself.

we are still investigating the effect these users’ actions had on the market

This suggests that the issue with market postings is the effect on other players.

PS: In case you find to much of a pain to have your rhetorical question answered in a manner of discussion the factor that changes what i think about all your scenarios is if the person “KNEW” or not.

Then in my opinion, it would be impractical to play the game if we tried to follow your standards.

[Aegrus]

Cool is that the money invested to open the box does not and will not be returned, if it was a mistake the irregular dpk besides the items being removed as they were being returned the opening money box and refinement, not everyone knew of the bug and They were just playing. Because the error came from you not from the players

Your only mention of identification is in your reply to my comment.

identify items, u’re not smart

Furthermore, I only wanted to let you know that hunting ground cubes aren’t like dungeon cubes. I wrongly assumed that you didn’t know the difference.

By the way, it’s “You’re not smart,” or “You are not smart.”

[treefosavior]

This contradicts https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1010

That literally a break down of what i said, in more detail. Are we even reading the same thing? They consider “abuse” when people used the item on the market(Profit). Not sure what was your point there.

Crafting your stuff while keeping it in the account isn’t banned.

Again crafting to use for yourself VS. Crafting more than one and selling or trading. This is pretty much written on that link you posted.

Then in my opinion, it would be impractical to play the game if we tried to follow your standards.

I rather play with people that dont exploit every little thing for their own benefit and then turn around QQ about P2W because they cant buy stuff(Not supporting P2W btw), but hey there plenty of those to go around and fill the ocean. Sarcasm btw.

Your opinion is very flawed in my opinion. Pretty sure I explain why i think that on my earlier posts.

Good heavens, are you still trying to put the fault on players?

yeah i get you guy, your one of those that think we should pardon the naxis that claimed they were just following orders, is not their fault killing people was wrong right it was Hittler’s fault. Same logic your using, look like sht in real life doesn’t it.

Stop stalking me. Different than when you attempted to counter my argument. this person is using well placed statements to have a discussion of conflicting ideas and not a whine fest like you, which was followed by reporting when you could not find words.

[treefosavior]

@trielav

Added this later as and @ because the other reponse looks like huge Wall of text that can make eyes cringe if not interested. This person was found innocent from IMC.

While openly display he exploited purposely, that was his intention. This is not about what IMC think is exploit or not, but a player going for it regardless and IMC allowing that type of behavior. Perfect example of what i mean, even the tittle OP used is fitting.

Does crime pay? Yes or sure?

[victormorelli6]

Dude your arguments are the worse, you are trying to defend Hitler. By your own ■■■■ logic It’s not Hitlers fault it is from his people. You are your own counter argument. Just stop embarrassing yourself. Piff.

[treefosavior]

Dude your arguments are the worse, you are trying to defend Hitler. You are saying It’s not Hitlers fault it is from his people. You are your own counter argument. Just stop embarrassing yourself. Piff.

you obviously dont get it as proven by your response. Since im a nice person ill let you in on it, they were both at fault.

[treefosavior]

Yeah yeah yeah, you are the owner of all knowledge. You know better than anyone. Keep going. Whatever.

The exact salty attitude from which i deduced this:

Different than when you attempted to counter my argument. this person is using well placed statements to have a discussion of conflicting ideas and not a whine fest like you, which was followed by reporting when you could not find words.

[pedropatrick666]

Google translator detected.

[victormorelli6]

Yeah yeah whatever gif guy.

[trielav]

Again crafting to use for yourself VS. Crafting more than one and selling or trading. This is pretty much written on that link you posted.

You listed crafting as an offense on its own. Crafting and then selling is no different than just selling so you’d have no reason to mention it separately if you were assuming selling.

IMC also said they’re looking at the amounts sold and effects on the market, so it’s not that simple.

I rather play with people that dont exploit every little thing for their own benefit and then turn around QQ about P2W because they cant buy stuff(Not supporting P2W btw), but hey there plenty of those to go around and fill the ocean. Sarcasm btw.

I complain about p2w while having a couple thousand TP sitting around. If you can’t imagine reasons for complaining about it other than they can’t buy stuff, perhaps you have similar motives for complaining about the bugged drops. In both cases my arguments favor gameplay, which would be deterred by penalties for bugs that happen while playing normally, and bypassed and trivialized by p2w.

[treefosavior]

I complain about p2w while having a couple thousand TP sitting around. If you can’t imagine reasons for complaining about it other than they can’t buy stuff, perhaps you have similar motives for complaining about the bugged drops. In both cases my arguments favor gameplay, which would be deterred by penalties for bugs that happen while playing normally, and bypassed and trivialized by p2w.

This was meant as a joke or sarcasm. Nothing more than that sorry if it confused you, since is not related to the previous discussion.

The idea was to illustrate that you have to play with players that have different views on in-game equality or as you have supported the views on what is ok to do. In other words, playing a game with your own standards seems impractical to me, that reason is not good enough to support a claim; since is bias towards our own personal preferences. TLDR is pure opinion.

In both cases my arguments favor gameplay, which would be deterred by penalties for bugs that happen while playing normally, and bypassed and trivialized by p2w.

Knowingly abusing normal gameplay by exploiting bug is what i said should be penalized harsher. That is my whole argument since the start. Your counter was, that what IMC considered exploiting and what other player myself included considered exploiting seem to differ, even though common sense supports IMC is the one being to lenient.