Tree of Savior Forum

I'm sorry to say.. I do not hate this game

General Discussion
#62

Sure, the Rankings have very little to do with missions and dungeons. The Nevellete mini games and some others buried across the maps are another example. The random collection of lore books spread across the game. The hidden quests, such as the secret one of kateen forest that no one has quite been able to figure out yet (as far as I’ve been able to find at least).

Crafting, completing your collections, helping other players.

There’s a lot of things but those are just off of the top of my head. Those aren’t activities that will interest everyone. I get that. But I don’t think it’s right to say there is no content outside of dungeons and grinding.

^^; and yes, TL;DR that’s why I made sure to tag it at the end in case someone didn’t want to read everything.

Oh hey, just saw this on reddit–if you’re of the right level this might be a useful thing. :slight_smile:

#63

The reason there’s so much wrongful information about the sale is because someone from reddit who regularly posts kToS news and patch notes (and general hate towards the game) posted this like it was a done deal.

#64

I love you for making this thread.

Thing is humanity in general is trained to only see/remember the negative things, it’s just human nature, so it’s hard to stop them.

There’s also the children that wants everything >NOW< (Like that guy that was making death threats because of fletchers “self-stun”), but there’s also the legitimate complaints about the game,

I agree that IMC has done some bad decissions, but saying they are ignoring the community is an outright lie.
Because they totally didn’t scrap their 3 month early access plan due to community outcries.
Because they totally didn’t start working on optimizations after the community voiced those issues.
Because they totally didn’t decide to cut Token price in half.
Because they totally didn’t add an SA server which wasnt on their To-do list.

I have never understood why people complain IMC doesn’t care or isn’t listening yet they spend their already limited budget with the ammount of ppl deciding to “not spend a dime” to get a new server for SA and host it in SA only to have their provider not work for them and take it back to USA, do you think the money to do those things that they are doing FOR the community comes out of thin air?.

Sorry that last part came like a rant, I understand people’s frustration, i just don’t understand why they say IMC isn’t listening. I only agree that they have made some bad decissions (Hello! trade restrictions, Hello! 48 hour market queue, Hello! reduced ammount of dungeon runs in comparison to kr, Hello! 15-day token that doesnt include trades). But on the flipside that doesnt make the game less fun for me at least.

I can only assume some of the content isnt here yet, i.e battle league, because they need to properly test it / balnace it on kr, considering they still keep adding Battle League specific balance patches all the time.

Eh, i really don’t know what else to say, but just that each side has their own views and none are wrong (Except ppl saying outright lies).

3 Likes
#65

Weecome to The internet…
Can I interest you in a 1 room “Safe space” …South park edition…

That’s how the forums feel right now

#66

I don’t hate the game either, but I am very concerned for it. Ironically, what I find most concerning is that IMC listens to its players a bit too much, and puts work into dumb ■■■■ that is overall not that meaningful to the health and longevity of the game. I’d much rather they be working on more content, or improving spawn rates, giving us kToS balance (and making more balance changes in general because some classes remain terrible and ignored), or doing anything that improves the gameplay aspects of the game rather than meaningless ■■■■ like trading restrictions (or a circle reset, god forbid) that are an inconvenience at worst.

The game’s got a lot of issues and the big ones that are going to kill it if they persist are all on the gameplay side, but they remain largely ignored or progress very slowly. The only really massive issue that isn’t directly gameplay related is the optimization that they are thankfully working on, even if it is baby steps for now and will take a lot of time and energy before it’s really at an acceptable level.

#67

Something I’ve noticed, more so on this forum than others, is that there is a severe lack of compassion. Of course, I don’t mean to say that IMC doesn’t deserve any of the criticism (they do), but to say that IMC “never listens” and “doesn’t care” is just outright lying and hypocritical.

#68

It’s incredible how vitriolic people can be on this forum. It’s not surprising, per se, because this is a f2p game, but it’s like some people don’t know how to express their frustrations in a healthy way… :smirk:

ToS does a lot of things right. It’s also trying to do a handful of things differently. And at the same time there’s clearly big flaws and some bad decisions too. It’s all over the place, really.

It feels… confusing sometimes, to be honest. Ambitious things like the (planned) level cap, in contrast to severe server performance issues. Awesome, totally optional puzzle dungeons like Nevellet Quarry and Guards Graveyard, juxtaposed with the /destroyguild bug from a bit ago. Complex in-world game mechanics like hidden quests and Scout’s Scan, and then a bug that’ll consume your warp scroll without warping you if the destination channel was full.

Part of it, I think, is that the playerbase as a whole was bigger than expected at first. And varied, too. There are plenty of people who are newer to the MMO scene or only have experience with some of the more recent f2p publishers that genuinely treat their playerbase like garbage (not naming names). There are plenty of people who are emotionally, and maybe monetarily, invested in this game, and are willing to look past the payment model and the necessity of slight pay-to-win, because nothing has quite caught their eye like it since RO. And there are plenty of people in between.

We have a fledgling studio here, that’s maybe a bit inexperienced, and maybe a bit in over their head. But nobody can say they’re not listening to their playerbase. Nobody can say they’re not trying. It blows my mind that as a community we so easily resort to viciously going at each others’ throats over differences of opinion.

I tell you what, as much as I am a gamer and a tech-savvy person, no other game has made me regret not pursuing game development more thoroughly than this.

3 Likes
#69

Out of curiosity, why does it make you regret not pursuing game dev.?

#70

Well, because I’ve had an interest in it for a long time and never actually jumped in and started learning.

I see some of the technical/performance problems and think “that’s silly/easy to fix/avoid” but I don’t REALLY have the specific knowledge to make that judgement.

If I did have that kind of depth of knowledge I’d probably be learning something from examining the problem. I dunno.

#71

No, I kind of understand that. :slight_smile: I think in many fields people have that kind of response. It’s strange how complex some of the “simple” things are too!

#72

As a programmer I can tell you that most things can be fixed with proper debugging and testing. The fact that every time IMC tries to fix something and something breaks is due to poor coding practices. Code needs to be properly encapsulated and organized with proper use of properties and that’s just the basics. It’s also preferable to setup an automated debugging system to help you catch little issues before things are released, more important if you don’t have a dedicated team of testers.

IMC may very well just be rushing things out the door. If I had to guess, they probably have like 1 or 2 programmers who are currently overworked on trying to setup content for the level cap increase and new classes / ranks. Understaffed and over-delegated means much less time for proper coding and testing.

However if it’s related to botting and cheating, it poses a problem simply because automated processes to deal with botters and cheaters can lead to innocent players being banned. Fortunately for us gamers the old saying of, “A few good people need to suffer for the greater good.” does NOT apply to video games. In fact if there’s even a possibility of just a select few getting targeted by an automatic ban system, chances are a company won’t pursue it either.

Sad times for ToS. But things will be solved, it will just take much longer due to limited staff and certain management decisions. We will get there eventually :stuck_out_tongue:

#73

Actually, one of my biggest curiosities is in relation to the whole bot problem. I would think, if you collected the right kinds of data about gameplay, you could VERY easily detect bots.

But of course there are probably people doing PhD level work on that problem. :stuck_out_tongue:

#74

Well I can get technical with you if you’d like.

See every time your character moves and every time a skill is used or action is taken, packets are sent to the server and sent back to you since your character’s data is stored on the server to prevent cheating. Pretty basic knowledge.

Botting software allows a player to fully customize the bot in order to evade certain forms of detection. Like gathering bots in FFXIV will not move in a sat path and they often delay movement from time to time just to throw off detection to confuse the automated process. Also include features like skill delays so the bot isn’t continuously pushing keys in an unrealistic way.

At this point, the bot becomes stealth to the automated detection process that most modern AAA games are using.

The automated detection is done by reading player vector data, player skill usage and actions taken over a period of time and running them through a process where it does 1 or 2 things (or both):

  1. It compares the player input to a series of proven and tested bot patterns from popular bot programs and attempts to establish enough of a connection to confirm that it is a bot.
  2. It runs it through another comparison which is a lot of data collected based on a human-like input and movement pattern (which is what bot software programmers have been doing to train their bots to evade detection). If no connection can be made, it is likely a bot.

These things are typically efficient in removing a lot of botters because not all botters have the skill to work the software properly enough to get past the automated banning.

What I find particularly alarming which I have been trying to tell people here for awhile is that the bots in Tree of Savior are very amateur. They run set patterns and have no care about their input spam (you can notice this by how fast they submit their RMT messages in towns for example). Their movements are always a set path with no variation and it’s nonstop with consistently the same skill usages at the same times.

It tells me that Tree of Savior has absolutely NO bot detection installed with this game and they are literally handling bots 1 at a time through a report system.

You aren’t going to ever be bot free in an MMORPG but you can certainly be better than it is here. To not have any system in place to detect bots is pretty sad in any MMORPG dev who’s trying to be serious about their game.

#75

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#76

I would think, with how bots get scarcer in higher level zones, it would be as simple as finding the players with the highest daily killcount per single map, or doing the same with number of silver drops (not amount of silver dropped, but rather the number of kills which dropped silver)

If you’d then sort those lists by level ascending… it sounds easy to me.

#77

Then i dont see why are you here kid.

#80

#I finally get to use this

#81

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#82

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#83

Shame. Overwatch is 10000000x the game quality TOS wishes it was.