Tree of Savior Forum

How to get rid of RMT

Suggestions Game
#42

Dude, i gave you my opinion.

1 wouldnt work because of inflation.

2 wouldnt work because silver is still needed so it wouldnt do anything against RMT

3 i just dont see how it would help at all.

These were my opinions. You explained more on it which was ok.

Then you called them cancerous and you have 0 tolerance for them. I dont need to write huge paragraphs to get my point across. You obviously knew the reasons for me not agreeing with your ideas.

So in the end, your attitude is the cancer.

Now im really going to stop wasting my time on this thread. I really hope you get youre attitude in check, but i dont think you have the courage to do this.

#43

Ahh, well I’m not afraid, but disappointed.

If your legit, then you will have to deal with players that are not legit as they now have the ability to abuse the market you play with.

The suggestions above are also in place to make it so players don’t have a reason to RMT, or less of a reason rather, so it should help legit players overall.

#44

We dont know if the cat is alive or dead. IMC seems confident they can trace which of which are legits and which are not.

Edit: ill reply more later i need to travel now for work.

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#45

But confidence does not provide results. It’s been 3 months, there are nearly no results when it comes to the RMT front. We have 48 hrs market restrictions as is, and that has not helped.

Even if they solved this, there is always another way, and that will more than likely make it even worse for players. So why not just make it so we don’t really have to RMT?

I get the reference, but in terms of our game, there is no need to risk such an abuse able system, when they can take suggestions like the one I’ve posted, and get results that are more favorable for players.

#46

IMC has claimed to be competent in many things but have displayed they are in very few so far. Its hard to put faith in them with their track record :persevere:

5 Likes
#47

Soon… you are gonna see …

Greetings saviors,

We would like to let you know that we are aware that there are issues with the RMT aunction house report classifier.

The dev team is currently taking a look into this issue and we will like to compensate those that have been banned wrongly with the following items.

15xday token
4xreset vouchers
6xExp vouchers
3xDays worth of Potatos

We offer our most sincere apologies for any inconveniences to those whom have been wrongfully banned.

My faith in IMC is restored…
I dun’t know how much longer can I can last with this…
They have yet to fix their bot classifier… and they are implementing this?
Sorry its just questionable

#48

How can you get a jackpot if you dont risk? IMC can test their theories and see if can work or not we still dont know. Similarly, your suggestion is akin to IMC theories they both need to put into test before we can conclude if it is working or not. So you saying your theories could work is just a bias on your part. IMC used the idea of playerbase to implement the level restriction on shout, look what we have here did that level restriction on shout solve the problem? No.That idea comes from the playerbase. Now if you think about it, ideas from the community is not always good even if they cry and curse IMC.

No matter what IMC do you still going to pout that anyway right? Considering how judgemental you are. Also, you should put “I think” on your sentence cause thats just your opinion not a fact.

#49

If this was true, I wouldn’t have made this thread. The point of my thread is to discourage RMT and encourage general gameplay. What IMC is doing is trying to eradicate RMT.

Credibility doesn’t matter when I can make a new account, and abuse the new system. It’s true that those who play with RMT will get punished, but you can’t say it won’t also majorly affect normal players?

Except what I said is systems that have been tried and tested in other games/MMO’s, what IMC is doing is not. Even if we don’t take into consideration the upcoming patch, everything thus far has been horrid. Instead of changing their methods after getting bad results, they keep pushing forward with more horrible ways of limiting players.

#50

[quote=“FatePGN, post:49, topic:301219, full:true”]
[
What IMC is doing is trying to eradicate RMT.[/quote]

IMC themselves said they do recognize that it is impossible to eradicate RMT and botting, they will however implement something to discourage them. I dont have time to search the forums but i believe it was somewhere around when iTOS opened (March) when they said that. Instilling fear is good. Also IMC can act as a customer to those RMT sites and catch them redhanded. I may consider doing that and report those items/people.

To be fair IMC said they will release more details on how their system will play out. But i can guess it will be the same on how we report bots. So youll need good amount of IRR before you can make your reports valuable, it seems to me you need 5 people with good IRR before the items get removed. Zero IRR dont matter i believe.

If they implemented your sytems and remove all of the restrictions of IMC and let the botters do whatever they want hell will break loose. Simliar to other MMO youre referring to. I doubt youll ever find good farming site even at lvl 200+ if IMC took your suggestion.

#51

Except iCBT2,even with the gamebreaking exploits in it, didn’t have nearly the same amount of unhappy players as we do now.And none of the current restrictions were present then [except the buyback feature was disabled by then,I think? I don’t remember].

Also,I don’t think either IMC or the players want bots running around unattended.But all of this effort to try and automate a system is losing them both players and credibility as a company,when they could [as I’ve said from day 1] be more active in-game and deal with bots more effectively.They called that idea primitive and shoo’d it away.But look where we are now.

I’d bet you anything we’d have less bots now if they just used that method from the start,at least until they were done developing this system of theirs.

1 Like
#52

Saying something, and doing something is 2 different things. It’s clear as day that as things are going now, no RMT’er is afraid, there is no fear in RMTing. Plenty of people do it, people have been caught redhanded, posted on the forums, and still are not banned. The restrictions do nothing, and with the restrictions in place, they don’t cause fear of banning. Being unable to trade silver doesn’t cause fear of RMTing, it’s there to straight up eradicate it altogether, like everything else they are doing.

That’s an assumption, all they said in the patch is:
"After an item is reported five times, it will no longer be able to be purchased or retrieved unless processed by a GM.

  • Items “on hold” will be evaluated and processed by a GM."

The part where it says five was even removed after all the backlash. Perhaps they will change it? Time will tell. Regardless this is only one bad restriction on top of other restrictions already in place.

And yet nearly every other MMO out there that doesn’t do this, is fine.

#53

[quote=“Melon, post:51, topic:301219, full:true”]

Except iCBT2,even with the gamebreaking exploits in it, didn’t have nearly the same amount of unhappy players as we do now.And none of the current restrictions were present then [except the buyback feature was disabled by then,I think? I don’t remember].[/quote]

If we have the same environment as we do on iCBT, current situations will be more harsh and unbearable. I wont be surprise if we see items with off the chart prices. Unbearable situation comes from too much freedom. Thats why IRL we have so many rules and laws that need to be followed, cause people are abusive in nature.

[quote]Also,I don’t think either IMC or the players want bots running around unattended.But all of this effort to try and automate a system is losing them both players and credibility as a company,when they could [as I’ve said from day 1] be more active in-game and deal with bots more effectively.They called that idea primitive and shoo’d it away.But look where we are now.

I’d bet you anything we’d have less bots now if they just used that method from the start,at least until they were done developing this system of theirs.[/quote]

It’s nice to have GM running around doing what GM suppose to do. We dont know if they do that or not but probably they dont have enough man power to make that idea with significant result. Lets say we do that with their current pool of people and focus only on that, what about other problems? Like bugs and porting the patches. The idea is maybe good if you have lots of people but seeing IMC needed even translators indicates that they do lack of employee.

Melon: But IMC have tons of money now from early access they can afford at least 5 GMs for every klaipeda on every servers to lessen the gold seller.

Botters can change the place anywhere they want. It could be in east siauliai woods where monster dont respawn or anywhere else. Meaning they will require more GMs than the current 30 gms stationed on every klaipeda. Thats for gold sellers alone, we have lots of maps and channels to explore on. 100+ GMs for your suggestion is maybe too much IMC can give.

[quote=“FatePGN, post:52, topic:301219, full:true”]

Saying something, and doing something is 2 different things. It’s clear as day that as things are going now, no RMT’er is afraid, there is no fear in RMTing. Plenty of people do it, people have been caught redhanded, posted on the forums, and still are not banned. The restrictions do nothing, and with the restrictions in place, they don’t cause fear of banning. Being unable to trade silver doesn’t cause fear of RMTing, it’s there to straight up eradicate it altogether, like everything else they are doing.[/quote]

We will see that in the upcoming patch, you can try to RMT if you think it will failed. It would be a good test i think.

[quote]
That’s an assumption, all they said in the patch is:
"After an item is reported five times, it will no longer be able to be purchased or retrieved unless processed by a GM.

  • Items “on hold” will be evaluated and processed by a GM."

The part where it says five was even removed after all the backlash. Perhaps they will change it? Time will tell. Regardless this is only one bad restriction on top of other restrictions already in place.[/quote]

“We will make another announcement about this new function with more details soon.”

Read it again.

[quote]
And yet nearly every other MMO out there that doesn’t do this, is fine.[/quote]

No they dont, they suffer from botters too. EA: blizzard diablo.

#54

iCBT2 had unlimited sign ups before it started,which also wasn’t a good idea on their part,but they managed eventually.None of the huge issues were about the market,or trading restrictions,or tokens,or features yet to be put in.It was unbearable near the end because of the worst exploit in the game’s history,but not because we were allowed to do all of those other things.It was a much better game then.

Then how can you not see that this new Market idea will encourage exactly that? This wasn’t a well thought out idea.Honestly this should be the only thing I need to answer to.

Except we do.Because the bots are going mostly unpunished.They only seem to respond to major,game breaking bugs quickly,and nothing else.

It doesn’t take a particularly skilled person to go in-game,track down reported IGN’s here and through the button,and follow them for maybe 3-5 minutes if that,looking for obvious bot signs.You also don’t need a large group of people to do this if your short staffed.Solution? Devote a different day of the week to each server and rotate.Even just doing this once would probably make a small dent in their numbers,especially since we’re still closed to new players at the moment.Repeat this until happy players spend money and old ones come back to spend theirs and before you know it,your game can afford some more staff.

Did not say this,I would never assume at any point in time that IMC went into the green launching our version of ToS.Considering how poorly the Korean version is doing,even,along with our own and now no new players? They’re not going to be considered successful by any standard for quite some time.I’m sure they’ve already burned through that money,or are close to it.

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#55

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#56

These are nice baby-steps solutions and are definitely something different from what IMC has been attempting to do: remove the means by which RMT operates. Rather, what this is suggesting is to remove the motivation which causes people to turn to RMT.

The main concern I have with these suggestions is that removing the motivation which causes people to RMT may also remove a motivation that causes people to continue playing. IE I want a stronger character, better gear, more attributes, rare monster gems. I think there is a tendency for people to rely on motivators such as these to keep playing a game even if such motivators are often considered very “base.”

Despite this (among a few other) concerns I do think that these suggestions would be helpful to the game in its current state but…

Am I the only person that likes the current trading restrictions?

These are the reasons why I think the trade limitations should continue to exist:

  1. Capitalism is NOT the only economic system that exists.
  2. There is no economy, virtual or otherwise that can exist effectively without some form of governance; restrictions, laws and limitations are needed in some form or other if either people or institutions aren’t to go belly-up.

I don’t think the market-report system is the best way to regulate for RMT, but if the means for transferring silver are gone, gold sellers will only be able to operate by selling the desirable items themselves - which may be locked behind dungeons, other future content that is difficult for mere scripts to complete or the one time trade limit on recipes.

#57

Yes, all games suffer from botters, but they live just fine, rake in the money, and general the free reign economies don’t cause the players to bleed away from the game, which was the point of my statement.

Silver for event rewards is a little strange, and boring imo. Events should offer even items, toys, etc, like in kToS and most other MMO’s.

That doesn’t matter. The gear is untradeable, and PvP is standardized.

I don’t really get what this means, can you explain it further?

Yes in the real world, all of this is true. But it doesn’t really work out as well in an MMO, with one universal economy with no real influence from other economies. It’s like we’re getting trade sanctions but on ourselves, it doesn’t really make sense? Either way, relating this to RMT restrictions is a rather large leap.

#58

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#59

Can you explain how it would be an issue?

From what I’ve said, you can only earn gear that is not tradeable, so it is stuck on your character. If a bot runs a dungeon for gear, the gear will be stuck on that bot, and won’t affect the economy in any way. Neither will it in PvP since gear is stat standardized, nor are there any real PvP rewards other than GvG TP rewards, where you are unlikely to see PvP bots.

Or maybe he never had the idea to begin with. kToS does not have it, but we usually get new features like this before it arrives in kToS.

Sometimes something may be created by design, but it does not necessarily mean it’s good nor does it mean it can not be changed. We have problems because things have not fundamentally changed, but instead restrictions upon restrictions are stacked on us.

#60

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#61

A bot entering a dungeon, usually has a goal of completing the dungeon, and bots currently already do dungeons. Like in FFXIV they will teleport hack into walls/etc and complete the dungeon. A bot by design isn’t meant to risk dungeons/etc.

Yes, that is the point, these are all improvement ideas.