How to get rid of RMT

[FatePGN]

You don’t IMC.

You can’t get rid of it, you can mitigate it. As it stands, with the restrictions in place and the new system on it’s way for Market reporting, your doing more than mitigating RMT, and actually messing with your natural player base.

The new system is so abuse able. Some may come up with the argument that the abuse won’t be that long since players will lose their RP value. But what’s stopping groups of people from making new character to continue abusing the market? It just takes 5 people with enough integrity to keep messing with the market.

If you want to mitigate RMT, you don’t put massive restrictions on your playerbase, you give them as little reason as possible to RMT, enough so that most won’t RMT. How do you do that?

Here’s a few ways:

1. Increase silver gain, at least enough to match kToS, so it’s feasible for most players to gain power rather than nearly anyone at all.

2. Add a dungeon currency in which you can run a dungeon X amt of times and get X currency to trade in for untradeable dungeon loot. That way players can get gear, although it will take time.

3. Make silver an account currency. All your characters are in the same team, why not make your team have one universal silver pool? It’s horrible to grind any sort of money with certain classes (tank/etc), and people have crafting classes for money (pardoner/alchemist/etc), please make silver pool team wide/account wide, as it makes EVERYTHING better and easier, and would help mitigate RMT since players can make characters better suited for earning silver.

Got a suggestion? Put it below!

Get rid of all your horrible restrictions IMC, you’ve done such a horrible job to the player base, that now, if you removed those horrible restrictions, and introduced an RMT mitigation update, which includes things like I’ve said above, players would actually find it a godsend, and the games immediate life will increase. You know what pushes players away? All these horrible reviews about your restrictions.

Please answer us with real answers. @STAFF_John @STAFF_Max @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_Ines @STAFF_J @hkkim

[thebloodyaugust]

10/10 would read again.

I vote for option 3.

By making things unreasonable to obtain your encouraging players to buy them else where.

[FatePGN]

My hope is for all 3, possibly even more changes, to happen.

But with IMC’s current track record, I can’t be sure even 1 of these ideas will reach IMC.

@hkkim

I am a person that has played your game since the early phases of kToS, since CBT2, through all of it every day to CBT3, then even the extended test period, and OBT, and all the iToS CBT’s, and nearly every single day of EA and now iToS OBT/release.

I have so many friends that are just like me, and play just as much, and we have tolerated so much for your game, but this is absurd. Your team has managed to even push away players like us. Please take these suggestions to heart and work towards them, they may be completely opposite to your ideas right now, but I assure you, we have the same goal. Please give us a response, tell me why these suggestions would not work, or tell me how you will implement them.

[Gringe]

1. Increase silver gain would just let bots farm even more silver and increase inflation…

2. not sure how dungeon currency would stop RMT… people would still be buying silver for other in game stuff.

3. not sure how this would do anything to help with RMT either…

TBH the restrictions dont bother me except i think the money retrieval from the market should only be 1 day.

[FatePGN]

Edited this post with full quotes so everyone is aware as to what I’m talking about and referring to.

not sure how dungeon currency would stop RMT… people would still be buying silver for other in game stuff.

1. I’m sorry but this argument comes up a lot. We don’t have the same silver gain as kToS, YET our items cost the same. Why is inflation a bad thing? How can the game get inflated when attributes cost 80m+? I’m sorry but this is the dumbest response I keep getting, and I hate to be so blunt with you, but please understand. There is WAY too many silver sinks for inflation to be anywhere near as bad as you may be thinking. Take kToS for example. They have higher silver gain, but no inflation.

Increase silver gain would just let bots farm even more silver and increase inflation…

2. Because that’s one less thing to RMT for, and more of a reason to do dungeons everyday. Yes there will be other reasons to RMT, but this is about RMT mitigation? Fixing this one thing will lower the reason to RMT overall? Did you think fixing this one thing will be the end to RMT?

not sure how this would do anything to help with RMT either…

3. Wut. I’ll give you an example.

EX: Player A has a tank and a alchemist. His alchemist is earning him money, his tank is not. His tank is in need of money but can not feasibly earn money because he is a tank. It would be easy to just RMT money for his tank. If we had a universal silver pool, you would not need to do that, as he could take money from the silver pool of his alch.

Not only that, it makes it viable to level other DPS classes, since it takes an INSANE amount of silver to make a DPS any good.

Please put some thought into what I say before giving me such responses. I am not here for the forums cancerous responses, and am here to get direct staff/dev responses. As you can tell, I am a player that is very upset with how IMC is handling the game, and have 0 tolerance for responses such as yours.

[Nirimetus]

Add a dungeon currency in which you can run a dungeon X amt of times and get X currency to trade in for untradeable dungeon loot. That way players can get gear, although it will take time.

This is the only item i don’t agree, there are tons of games that use that system out there (WoW, Devilian, ELOA and some others.).

They should rebalance the cubes drop rate, its ridiculous, well i think they did as it is now (talt cubes) for guild system testing, but after done what need to be done or tested it should be rebalanced.

Quest rewards should be a bit better tho, it is ridiculous receive pots in every single quest reward under Lv 90 or 100. Some classes don’t even use or barely use SP and not to count that the pots are the heaviest thing in your consumable inventory, even more heavy than anvils, i would guess the pots in ToS would be something like this?

^ That is a 20L water gallon lol.

[FatePGN]

I can agree with this, solving the problem at the root is good. Making drop rates a little better is fine. But I believe it’s a little harder to do without making a harmful impact on the economy/etc.

Quest rewards can be a little better. They had it right with Orsha quests giving you some silver.

[Gringe]

Please put some thought into what I say before giving me such responses.

I did put thought into it. Increase silver gain would increase inflation. Bots would also be able to farm more silver which reduces prices of the silver. This wouldnt help at all. I dont know about Ktos, but is the prices the same across all itos servers? i dont think so, but we do have the same silver gain.

Just buy items and use team storage. Thats what i do.

I am a player that is very upset with how IMC is handling the game, and have 0 tolerance for responses such as yours.

i just gave my opinion on your suggestion. Oh because i have a different opinion you have 0 tolerance for it? get a life. I have 0 tolerance for your attitude.

[Nirimetus]

That is the thing, with the market pricing range limits, you don’t know for sure what is worth what.

Other day i was looking to see how much cost a silly Chain Boots (Lv 15 white) and for my surprise, there was 5-7 costing around 1 million.
Obvious it was the GS transactions, but hell, i wanted to put mines for 1k and who says the system let me? The minimum price i could put up was 300k for a Lv 15 white boots lol. I sold to the NPC. My intention to sell it was for small money and since it is part of a collection i thought it would sell fast.

I already commented about this on other thread which is about tomorrow’s patch for market report, i can see more people complaining about a load of stuff as you also stated on your post.

[thebloodyaugust]

That is the thing, with the market pricing range limits, you don’t know for sure what is worth what.

Which is another restriction we would be better off without -.-

[FatePGN]

I did put thought into it. Increase silver gain would increase inflation. Bots would also be able to farm more silver which reduces prices of the silver. This wouldnt help at all. I dont know about Ktos, but is the prices the same across all itos servers? i dont think so, but we do have the same silver gain.

No you didn’t, you put minimal thought. Increasing silver gain would indeed increase inflation. But think about inflation and silver sinks. We have silver sinks to mitigate inflation. Do you honestly believe that if we had silver gain like kToS, we would not have enough silver sinks to mitigate the inflation? It’s like 150m+ of just attributes for a DPS lol.

Bots would be able to farm more silver? Who cares? That silver is of no use if RMT is less desirable? Not to mention the bot problem is a problem in it’s own, and something IMC needs to resolve/mitigate.

i just gave my opinion on your suggestion. Oh because i have a different opinion you have 0 tolerance for it? get a life. I have 0 tolerance for your attitude.

That’s fine, your responses had very little thought beyond the obvious, and I want real changes here. The responses you have seem to have as much thought as IMC had when they made these changes, and didn’t take into consideration the current playerbase/etc.

If you have 0 tolerance and can’t contribute any half decent ideas or a strong counterpoint, that’s fine by me. But I’m not here for responses like this.

[Gringe]

Increasing silver gain would indeed increase inflation.

Thanks for agreeing with me. Seems you just want attributes to be maxed easier from what you said after that.

Bots would be able to farm more silver? Who cares? That silver is of no use if RMT is less desirable?

If they can farm more silver, then they will be able to sell more for less. So it wouldnt be much different.

If you have 0 tolerance and can’t contribute any half decent ideas or a strong counterpoint, that’s fine by me. But I’m not here for responses like this.

Too bad. I dont need to always have some intense discussion with people. Sometimes i do, but other times i just state my opinion and go. You cant always get the responses you want. If you dont like it just ignore it. Dont need to be a ■■■■.

[Seiran]

Trying to add some suggestions or ideas that would also be new content / style of playing:

In Tibia we had an option to choose between two NPC stories, after completing the quests the character would be able to sell items for one of them. This enabled you to farm items that had more value and/or buy from others to sell to these NPCs.

I can think of a similar system in ToS in which we could subscribe to an NPC that fits a specialization. For an example, we could have a character to sell recipes for reasonable prices, other to sell items/recipes based on rarity, other to sell plate armor parts, other to sell weapons.

I can’t really say this would work or not. But surely it will increase silver gain while making us have a way to actually make money in different places AND with different characters, even Tanks or Supports, as we could select another merchant option and transfer items through Team Storage. It would also make us want to increase it to big transfers instead of gears only transfer.

If you really think about it, there’s only one well known place to make silver (not by selling items and not dependent on RNG / bossing) and to make it in a effective way you can only have about one person per channel which means only about 7 characters can farm silver effectively in a given time with great effort for a low amount per hour. This is why I think this would help a bit on the issue while also making people play more and giving more content.

[Melon]

You always hit the nail on the head.So refreshing.

As someone who’s excitedly been playing the International version of your game since iCBT1 and been a regular on the forum, it’s both baffling and heartbreaking to me what’s going on with ToS, @hkkim.

I’m sorry,but restrictions like these aren’t ones that solve the botting issue.You can’t expect your already clearly unhappy playerbase to be supportive of more actions that further negatively impact the player. Enough of this,please.

Any of these suggestions would work, or the old method of live GM’s in-game actually monitoring for and banning bots.Then you wouldn’t have so many tickets and people complaining about poor response times.

Bots are bad,we all understand that.But you have to draw the line somewhere when it starts hurting legitimate players and rethink your strategy.Bot prevention doesn’t mean a thing if actual players aren’t around to see your efforts,good or bad.

[FatePGN]

Thanks for agreeing with me. Seems you just want attributes to be maxed easier from what you said after that.

I’ll quote the entire thing since you like to split responses, more cancerous response, here’s the full quote:

Increasing silver gain would indeed increase inflation. But think about inflation and silver sinks. We have silver sinks to mitigate inflation. Do you honestly believe that if we had silver gain like kToS, we would not have enough silver sinks to mitigate the inflation? It’s like 150m+ of just attributes for a DPS lol.

Bots would be able to farm more silver? Who cares? That silver is of no use if RMT is less desirable? Not to mention the bot problem is a problem in it’s own, and something IMC needs to resolve/mitigate

I mentioned attribute maxing, since that is a silver sink, a counterpoint to your argument about inflation, but you seemed to have failed to realize that, and instead decided to pick apart my responses.

If they can farm more silver, then they will be able to sell more for less. So it wouldnt be much different.

Again, does it matter? If a player can feasibly achieve his/her goals, they have no reason to do so.

It’s okay if you delete your posts, everything is quoted. I personally am just not here to deal with players like you, but if you had a strong point for me to counter, or not be able to counter, I would leave to hear it. For now you have presented minimal thought ideas, and cancerous pick-a-part responses.

@LunarRabbit A very interesting feature, and definitely something I would love to see in the future, but it sounds like something that would take awhile to setup.

[Gringe]

Silver sinks wont make a difference on the inflation. that is why i left it out. We have the same exact silver sinks, yet we would gain more silver. So the silver sinks dont matter at all and is a stupid excuse.

Yes, it does matter if bots can sell more silver for less. Not sure why you would think otherwise.

It’s okay if you delete your posts, everything is quoted. I personally am just not here to deal with players like you, but if you had a strong point for me to counter, or not be able to counter, I would leave to hear it. For now you have presented minimal thought ideas, and cancerous pick-a-part responses.

Man youre dumb. Sure i didnt explain every single detail in my first post, but i explained it more on the other ones since you insisted and i told you why i didnt put much detail as well. Ill leave my posts up then. it wasnt for my benefit to delete them anyway.

Like i said sometimes i dont want to have a back and forth discussion with people, so i will leave this thread now.

You should get rid of the attitude though. There are going to be people that disagree with you, it doesnt mean you should be a ■■■■.

[thebloodyaugust]

yet we would gain more silver

Not more. We would gain the same as KToS with what hes proposing. So same not more. As Ktos has displayed the silver sinks for the values they earn are fine.

[FatePGN]

Silver sinks wont make a difference on the inflation. that is why i left it out. We have the same exact silver sinks, yet we would gain more silver. So the silver sinks dont matter at all and is a stupid excuse.

Why does that not matter? Are you unaware that we have less silver gain than kToS right now?

Let’s do some quick math with approximations.

Currently in kToS, 5 runs of the 130 dgn nets you 1.2m, it is there average money making daily method.

For us, ask anyone, and a majority will tell you that they farm 200k/hr in Demon Prison/Dina bee farm, through either camping the area from leveling parties, or using auto-pot. Even then, a majority of players would not nearly reach the levels of money a kToS player can achieve easily/daily.

Now for inflation, let’s do some math here.

Silver sinks:

1. Attributes: Around 60-80m to get lvl 100 enhance, players need on average 3-5 of these, with future ranks needing more at a higher cost.

2. Dungeon deaths = ~5% money loss.

3. Gear upgrading, costs around 20m+ for higher level gear.

4. Lolopanther gear repairing, costs around 20k+ for EACH PIECE.

5. Rerolling cubes, 200k-400k at higher levels.

6. Mob drops at the highest level map, average around 200 - 300 silver every 10ish mobs… This was put in here, not as as silver sink, but as a comparison to the silver sinks above.

7. Warping, 5k+ on average.

8. Trascendancy system soon, yet another silver, and plenty more.

9. 50% tax on all crafting classes.

10. Awakening costs.

And I haven’t touched all the silver sinks yet. YET SOMEHOW you believe that this is not enough inflation yet it’s proven that it is in kToS to stop any major inflation.

Please, a little more thought, don’t dismiss an idea without countering it. Even if I have called you out, and said mean things to your ideas, I presented a counter to each and every one. As you can see from my previous posts, I gladly accept any disagreements, and sometimes even agree with them after reading a strong argument. You have presented nothing but useless points, disregarding points I’ve made, and points with minimal thought, that is the truth.

[Daenerys]

I completely agree with points #1 and #3. I am not entirely sure if point #2 it is necessary, but it couldn’t hurt.

Increasing silver gains to the point where players can actually afford repairs, attributes, gear-upgrades, buying items from the market, without having to rely on buying silver from RMT… will most likely reduce the number of RMTers.

Why would you take the risk to buy silver off of an RMTer when you can get sufficient silver from playing the game? The same applies to low-drop rate items. If you can get those items yourself there is very little reason to take the risk in buying them off RMTers.

As it stands, with low silver gains and insanely low drop rates (killing over 50k of a mob for a single item… ), it is not surprising that the RMT market is thriving.

[FatePGN]

I don’t think 2 is necessary, but I don’t think it brings harm, and it does help mitigate RMT, as well as help players stand on a more even playing field.

But I don’t expect IMC to take all these suggestions, or any at all, I would be happy with 1-3.

If you have any other suggestions, that would be great too.