Tree of Savior Forum

How to enhance items to +16 with high probability

My point is simple, these rituals should be out of the players hands. You say players can check for lucky streaks I say they shouldn’t be able to. IMC can’t do that and other games do it too? Well I didn’t know that but at the very least other devs would try to make it less obvious.

If frame rates have an effect then bring upgrading to a stable fps environment. If anvil hitting speed has an effect then take the hit speed away from player’s hands. If lucky streaks tend to happen then make it so that there are several other factors other than when the player decides to anvil again that can randomize the draw in between attempts.

In the first place you’re talking technical while I’m simply talking ethical. To you this is much less an issue about keeping things fair but just defending IMC and making me wrong. Sure you got me, I don’t know as much about RNG as your brilliant mind does but I also think IMC should do something to make it random enough to make these rituals less convincing. Finally, no there are too many signs that IMC can’t do ■■■■ within a reasonable standard such as optimization issues, bugs, exploits and many other things so no I can’t trust IMC to give us a good RNG code. At the very least Blizzard would find a way to change how the draw is processed if players are using rituals that are advantageous to them, IMC can barely fix bugs and even introduce new bugs on an empty maintenance so how can I trust them to make the enhancement system more fair?

EDIT: Heck the entire crap about the difference between true and fake multi-hits is a very clear testament to IMC’s bad coding practices. They don’t think about their code, they just barely make it work. Given how old the upgrade system is it’s entirely possible that old unrefined sloppy code is exactly what it’s running on.

There goes this all over again.

Saying “your argument is wrong because X and Y” is now defending IMC :man_shrugging:

Ok, Mr-AlwaysRight

And now bad design is bad coding. :man_shrugging:

Can you write a game? Know what’s involved in writing one? No? Guess you’re coming with that from nowhere as well :man_shrugging:

I’m saying your argument is besides the point.

That many games have been using the same code for RNG and that there are existing ways to manipulate RNG further proves that there’s a possibility these rituals actually work. However, there are a lot of games now that makes it physically impossible for anyone to even come up with such rituals.

I doubt anyone would decide to make a distinction between true multihits and fake multihits as a design choice. It’s more likely that two different programmers coded it and they both passed the quality check despite working so differently.

And I’m saying that crying about the wrong thing won’t get you anywhere. Complain right = results, complain with wrong stuff = get ignored and say “IMC doesn’t listen to players”

:man_shrugging:

And saying we should accept the system as it is because other games do it will get you somewhere?

You even try to reinforce these rituals by giving advice about fail streaks. Don’t you see what’s fundamentally wrong about that in an upgrade system that is supposed to be 50% per attempt?

Being named “effect multi hit” and being part of the files clearly shows that it’s designed that way.

Also, sure:

HitCount > 1 was added to the file as a bug to certain skills and to almost all bosses. Super bug!

No. I’m saying if you’re going to complain about enhancement system, complain about enhancement system.

If you’re going to complain about RNG, complain about RNG.

If you’re going to say this alone: people are controlling luck chance!!! No dev will ever listen to you. :man_shrugging:

Right, so it’s a design flaw and not a coding flaw. Therefore the RNG in the enhancement system is a design flaw and not a code flaw. Happy now? You’re splitting hairs between code and design I applaud your efforts.

Yup and that’s what I’m saying after I learned about it. Make the RNG more robust to completely silence the idea that player rituals have an effect. I doubt it’s robust enough because a lot of players are using the same rituals.

Yeah. I’m glad. You’re learning to do better complaints instead of putting almost 30 posts in a thread complaining that the global warmth happens because earth-chan is flat.

Right but in the end there are rituals, which seem to influence success or fail.

Holy moly that was so complicated

They don’t influence success or fail. You try to find when you can continue or stop. You don’t change the server result, you change the time you try.

Yes and you can avoid successive fails or take advantage of a success streak as a result of that change in timing.

Now you’re going to argue about the semantics of what an “influence” is? That this timing can change the outcome of the weapon being upgraded is enough of an influence.

“Don’t go to that region, people are shooting each other.”

If you insist on going you can either pass when people gave it a pause even though someone can shot suddenly.

If you insist on crossing when people are firing at each other you have higher chance of being hit.

If you see that happening you can simple move away and get another route.

So just because it’s unfair because the others were shot you will walk as well into the fight and hope you’re not hit because it’s all luck and the chance of being shot “is the same” (shot or not shot)? And complain that it’s unfair dying because others stepped back?

Lol it’s not unfair that the player stood back after hearing gunshots. It’s unfair that you can hear the gunshots in the first place. I’m not saying rituals are bad, I’m saying it’s bad that there are more people using the same rituals producing the same results.

And I’m saying that rituals doesn’t change the server values but the time you try. You can either go this route and suggest changing the random number generation for anvil enhancement or suggest a whole new thing.

But saying players are “affecting” success rate imo is ambiguous and will just get you to take longer where you want and confuse people.

At worst you’re creating the mob mentality that “people are cheating on weapons, people are affecting server rolls”.

If you complain about the right thing these doesn’t happen lol

Well, you misunderstood me then simply because I used the term “RNG” with less knowledge than you do.

I kept saying to keep it simple, you keep pushing on the technicalities on RNG just because I misused the term. All I wanted to say was that the chance for success be closer to 50% per attempt no matter what the player was doing before, no matter the frame rate, no matter what ritual yadda yadda.

While we were wasting our time look at this fresh +15 mace I just made! The only 2 times it failed someone warped in beside me in what used to be an empty channel. I changed maps and voila! 5 consecutive success!

Did that person who warped in make me fail? Well maybe, you can’t really tell. But there are lots of people suggesting that upgrading at an empty channel is better.

At the very least I want more factors other than “the number of people in the channel” to shift the RNG tendency ffs.

lmao @GoldenCross this is gold. :joy:
lookit them arguing :joy:

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Name one Online Game please

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Why online specifically?

As I already said there’s an RNG manipulated run of Dragon Warrior that let the player memorize events so they can do commands in such a way that rare monsters spawn consecutively. However there are also speedruns where there are extremely random factors that speedrunners cannot manipulate and have to redo over and over in order to get their desired results (like that stage in a 007 game where you have hostages running all over the place and you hope they reach their exit points before the level ends.)

Let’s say true random is impossible as explained already, but more random is definitely possible. Random enough so players can’t get a feel of how to read the randomness is ideal.

But the success chance is 50% ‘-’, actually 49 or 51, not sure, i forgot D:

I wanted an online game as example cause I can assume they run in an “equal environment” (hardware).

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