How IMC increases game difficulty is really worrying

[amadze]

The biggest issue is how IMC delivered this increase in difficulty which is extremely boring and cheap.

your suggestions? make mobs simple exp meat, like in CBT?
Oh no, lets delete high damage and homing skills!!!

Those skills should be easy to avoid? And what will be a reason to create a party if everybody could easy kill all mobs?

think not only about 1 button hunters, but about full supports. What reason to play with FS builds, if nobody needs you?

now:
heal can kill everybody, but slow (low dps)
dps can kill everybody, but slow (time to heal with bonfire or potions)
tank can kill everybody, but slow (low dps)

but together they can kill more then x3 mobs because taunt+heal+dps.

[amadze]

As expected with someone talking with ZERO experience. Full draw only roots the enemy, it does not prevent them from attacking. Heavy Shot only knocks enemies backwards but that doesn’t mean the enemy can’t attack you if you’re still within their range after getting knocked back. Not to mention, Full Draw has charging time where you’re actually better off killing the enemy ASAP than trying to root them before finishing them off.

what about stone shot?
0 sec cooldown, 4 sec stun, inflict damage.

http://www.tosbase.com/database/skills/30204/

[Dream]

Uhhh, everything you know. I already know them all. I have Lv200 Archer on iCBT as well. I’m not asking for tips, that is not the point of the thread. Also seems like I hit bullseye when I said “Most players think they are better players” instead of focusing around the point of this thread.

[iago_l]

The amount of people that didn’t even read the OP topic is worrying.
If IMC wants to increase the game difficulty by increasing the monsters damage, they SHOULD give players a chance of counterplay. Mobs with homing attacks/attacks that can knock you out instantly on monsters that are literally everywhere in the map is just bad and frustrating gameplay.
I like how Block/Evasion is the main concern to avoid damage, that feels more logical. But, they have to give us something to atleast have a chance to avoid magic damage. Perhaps some variation of Block? Or Block itself(with some nerfs to avoid magic damage, I.E having a lower chance of Blocking magic damage), the way I see it, Physical damage can be Blocked/Evaded while Magic Damage can only be facetanked give us something to work with, IMC.

[Dream]

Are you dumb? Obviously you did not even backread what I said or even tried comprehend my other older replies.

I know that the game as it is IS currently easy, everybody knows that. But this increase on the numbers only eg: Overpowered attacks, more mob density that uses ranged homing projectiles are very lame additions. They are NOT challenging nor engaging. The new added difficulty is just a band-aid, it didn’t really solve the core problem that the game is easy especially when just bringing in a healer actually solves everything.

[quote=“amadze, post:123, topic:125582”]
what about stone shot?0 sec cooldown, 4 sec stun, inflict damage.
[/quote]See, this is why you should just keep quiet. You obviously don’t know how HORRIBLE quarrel shooter is at this moment. Quarrel Shooter’s DPS is non-existent, they only exist for the stun which is obviously more on the PVP side, it’s not even guaranteed 100% stun.

[amadze]

Mobs with homing attacks/attacks…

1. there are a little number (probably 2-3) maps with such strong mobs
2. its easy to find party.

whats the problem? =)))

[amadze]

Overpowered attacks, more mob density that uses ranged homing projectiles are very lame additions.

how many maps with those mobs?

or ALL the mobs on ALL maps are very-very strong?

[amadze]

Are you dumb?

Oh no, lets delete high damage and homing skills!!!

Those skills should be easy to avoid? And what will be a reason to create a party if everybody could easy kill all mobs?

think not only about 1 button hunters, but about full supports. What reason to play with FS builds, if nobody needs you?

try to answer that =)

[adrenalin7_7]

Bosses now can killed from 3 ability fix it BACK pls anyone!!!

[frould]

because you not play Cleric.

[Sixaxis]

My image of Dream being a kind and understanding Maid is slowly being ruined by you guys trolling her and turning her into a short-tempered Tsun.

Pls stop.

[Dream]

[quote=“amadze, post:128, topic:125582”]
how many maps with those mobs?
or ALL the mobs on ALL maps are very-very strong?
[/quote]This is why I know you didn’t bother reading my other posts and just want to post whatever you want to say even with ZERO knowledge and experience.

I was forced to stop playing due to an IPF error but what I experienced so far is that the Tenet Chapel counter part on Orsha has an extreme density of those mage mobs which can hit you no matter what. Those pawndel archers are on Tenet Chapel if you don’t recall, they are also extremely much stronger on the Lv50 instance. Spion Archers that can almost one-shot you are on a Lv29 Area.

Obviously I cannot say that these are ALL the maps because I have limited gaming experience. But do I need to experience everything. You can just take a look at it this way. You compare iCBT experience to kOBT experience. They made the changes. Now you focus on HOW they made the changes. The changes increased the difficulty in the most boring and cheapest way.

[quote=“amadze, post:129, topic:125582”]
try to answer that =)
[/quote]Did I say they need to be easily avoided? You should go backread. I said they can do something like give a player a quick dodge move but at the same time give the melee enemies something like a tackle move or direct charge attack towards the player while ranged mobs can have faster projectiles w/o the homing ability so that it’s still possible to dodge them if you’re moving alot but they can still hit you if you keep still in 1 place. Again, these are just suggestions of something that will improve the game’s difficulty while not being cheap and boring.

I won’t reply anymore to you if you won’t even bother backreading. Also, try to speak only around your knowledge or experience. Stop assuming things. Seriously, CC the enemies as an Archer? What kind of BS is that >___>

[yodish92]

why are you even brining up that im trying to be elitist or whatever, if i wanted to i could just say that i played through the ICBT with 3 lvl 200 characters and a 4 lvl 150 characters, so “i know more than you”
no need for us to swing our “e-peens” at each other…

anway.
i know what you mean by the monsters being purely cheap especially 170+, but this game is simply not made for twitch mechanics and fast pace action, the spells and skill have long cast times and the combat is predominantly based on positioning and layering buffs and ground effects over evasive manuevers and fancy combos

i agree that the game is still wildly imbalanced and some things do need tweaks, the homing missiles and monster damage thing needs to be revised for sure, but i dont think the core mechanics of combat will be changed at all. (which i asume is the point your making in this post)

what im saying is that gearing and exploring are the main draws, maybe this genre simply isnt for you, it has the potential to be fast and furious but i dont thank thats the way it should go, it was stated in one of the dev interviews that they want to make this game autoattack oriented, which would mean using skills has to be done mostly strategically instead of instinctively, most action games tend to be an overload of buttons you press in sequences and rotations, with some situational spells you use to counter other mechanics in combat eg. blade and soul

i see it like this:
this game is more based around builds and character optimisation over combat and skill mastery, its still in its early stages so maybe what im saying simply isnt true, but right now thats the way it is, and it seems to be the design philosophy the designers want to adhere to.

[Dream]

what im saying is that gearing and exploring are the main draws, maybe this genre simply isnt for you, it has the potential to be fast and furious but i dont thank thats the way it should go

[guillermofabriziofe1]

I think that this could be like thor in prerenewall xD the partys in thor-odin in ro was the better =D

[greenfoxy21]

True.

Id din’t play kobt yet… still deciding if i should go or not for pvp reasons.

But homeing skills, doesn’t sound that bad.

Heck … remember the egnomes?
I actually got a bit mdef as swordy, then afk farmed there … with my level being 40.

Before that i had an archer and mage with leather or plate armor … no mdef on them.
They got ripped to shreds by 30~70 dps hits. *times 10~13 (max amount of aggro is still weird for me).
Just adding a protas boots and stuff to my swordy … not even using the mdef shield i could use. I just stood there… and regenerated more hp then i got chipped of me … with zero extra con. (dex build, normal atks dont hit me.)

And i laughed hardcore when i was in an instance dungeon.
One of the two priests (battle priest) was going at the boss beside me …
I was “Dude! Get to his back.”.
He goes “Nah! I can handle it!”.

Four seconds later he was death, revived and went to the back for the rest of the fight.
After that run, we decided to go another (i was Swordy>High>Barb, not evne a true aggro tank).
But before that we sat down for 1 minute talking about what to do differently this time.

And heck. We managed to clear it without deaths, in half the time and even took the other side full of mobs we ignored.
If we didnt had to bugg out two times, duo Gnarl knock bug disconnect bug. (Before we found out that we should disable knockback there).

In the end. We had the clerics stay with the one pyro. While that other swordy>high>high was focusing on keeping mobs away from them. I pulled two to three groups to them.

When everything was set. I was facing towards them.
They were facing to the enemys backs.
And we easily got past what was a spamming of [coin]revive and heal before…

This applies to everything… tactics, cordination and equip.
It felt rewarding.

[yodish92]

What I wanted to see was something like IMC adding a quick dodge button where the character will have invulnerability frame for a split second while moving quick in a short distance AND then making the mobs move faster in a way like the melee mobs will attempt to tackle/charge towards you or ranged mobs having faster projectiles but no more homing/aimbotting making it possible to dodge with enough reflex. Now this improves the game difficulty while not being half baked unlike giving one-shot skills to the enemy or impossible to dodge projectiles.

yes our opinions clash, retort me instead of giving me nonsense…

[Dream]

yes our opinions clash, retort me instead of giving me nonsense…

I really got nothing more to say on this, I have already stated my strong points on my previous replies.

/20characterssssssss

[amadze]

give a player a quick dodge move

we have that mechanic in neverwinter online. And nobody takes healers in party in storyline quests or endgame everyday quests. Only in endgame instances. You think its good situation? I stopped playing healer in NWO because everyday quests were boring without party (easy, slower 2x times than while playing dps class, and boring) and dps classes had no reason to look for party, because they can dodge all powerfull attacks and dont need any heal.

and there why there are difficult to go endgame instances - too few people want to play tank/heal, and dps classes spent 15-40 minutes to find heal to go into dung.

situation with dodgable attacks will bring another situation - in high end instances you will have to spend a few hours to find FS healer.

[yodish92]

https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/in-depth-article-regarding-kobt-in-korean-translation-needed

In-depth article regarding kOBT (in Korean, translation needed)

Auto-attacking (header mine)

We don’t find the name “Auto-attack of Savior” a dishonour. Rather, we think of it as praise (lol).
Having variety in attacks while auto-attacking is rather, more fitting of this game.
It is difficult to satisfy all players.
Because ToS is a low-tempo game, it may become an extreme bore to people who don’t find it suitable for their tastes.
We want to appeal to people who wish to play at a slower tempo (i.e. casual?).
We also do not intend to change the game into one that focuses on skills.
In actual play, while there are classes that focus on auto-attacking, there are also classes that don’t.
ToS is a game with many classes. There are combat classes and supportive ones.
For balancing sake combat classes may be strengthened, but making supportive classes equally strong is a little difficult.

i dont know if you’ve read through this post, its the interview i referred to with translations
it should give you more to think about
ive quoted whats relevant to your opnions
specifically, they want a “low-tempo game”, enough said…