Tree of Savior Forum

Here's what you could contribute to stop this stupid system

General Discussion
#105

A fact about the early access thing is that it was well needed. Infact their original plan for 3months would have had been a lot better for the longevity of the game.

A fact it would have been even better to postpone the release of early access.

A fact IMC had to restrict new accounts later on quite soon after early access cause there were still too many problems they weren’t able to fix.

A fact the community wanted to play so badly it really transpired badly for the image of the game and their company.

A fact huge part of the community agreed to the early access with the better terms suggested. While some knew the original plan would have been better but at the time even personally I didn’t see that.

A fact there was a very cheap option for early access after the complaints with the others providing HUGE value that was definitely worth it for any buyer. (Considering you actually played the game. Obviously anything you spend on any game isn’t of value if you don’t play it.)

I think it’s very ignorant to claim that it was trickery. Sure it’s obvious they catered for that option but only cause they really needed an early access time. It was clear from the community that they won’t accept three months and one week on the other hand would have been a very short time so they only did what was best for them at the time.

I’m not gonna say that IMC doesn’t deserve blame for this cause they obviously do. IMC should have been firm and should have postponed the release a lot more and they should have been more vocal and open about the situation to gain more understanding.

But this is in the past and what happened, happened. I’d still prefer people taking into consideration other factors of the matter than the obvious catering of specific poll option when discussing this topic.

I also find it very counterproductive to use this particular topic against IMC as it’s one of those rare moments where they actually went against their original decision and listened to the playerbase.

1 Like
#106

the forums is like the twilight zone where most of the things i see here is bizarrely an opposite world when i log into the game

either that, or the telsiai server is a remote island far from these kind of krudnik

#107

Your approach could probably use tad bit more finesse at times, but I do see your point! Some forum users might not be aware of the silent majority/vocal minority concept, which basically means those who are content are less likely to speak up than those who are discontent.

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#108

If they are happy then there’s nothing to be afraid about. They just could play the game without worrying about the forums.
There’s also the issue of people who silently quit the game and don’t even bother to voice their opinion, feedback or complaint.

LunarRabbit wants an echo chamber where he’s the one to decide who is a troll or who is not, what is true or what is false, what is exaggeration or what is not.
He cares more about people who don’t play the game (either potential new players who have never played the game, or the “40k” people who barely log in), than people who actually play or try to play the game.

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#109

though, when im in forums. people be like “i’m not going to buy your stuff imc”

log in game 1 hour after maintenance…

town was almost considered redecorated with all the gold pupper stuff everyone’s showing off.

kind of like that free dumpling-headpocalypse. but unlike the dumpling head, gold pupper stuff aren’t free.

#110

Wow really? Well then, what can I say… False alarm then I guess?
Everything is fine. The game is fine. Don’t change anything.

#111

i think the problem lies on how a lot of people in the forum tends to go absolute

just because i’m saying the forum is almost the opposite of my experience in game

doesn’t mean there’s no problem

nevertheless, extremism isn’t a good thing

1 Like
#112

Yeah, I definitely agree. Let’s be honest here, my English level doesn’t allow me to some of the “nice hidden but offensive posts” without actually putting more effort than it’s worth. >_< It can be a good practice actually to approach each in a less head on way, I’ll try from now on.

About the majority/minority concept…

What happens is: The user is aware but prefers to present negative things/excuses for the sake of trying to make something into a problem and convince others about it.

It’s too easy to give a vote to something you want, not complain about it anywhere and come here in future and just say: “heh, I voted but it was biased”.

It feels that the original reasoning was upon agreeing with what he voted but now he tries to find flaws for troll purposes to support another post that touches topics of the past but with added lies or overestimate some of his points or says that forum users actually fought against something that you can’t find instances of people actually complaining. :x

#113

The same people going to get another thread locked.

#114

So, essentially, you want only unhappy people to participate the forums? That doesn’t sound… right.

Let me approach it from a smaller part of my opinion of why we should still use Unique Players in Last 2 weeks.

You still use the market to buy and post items even if all you do is log in, do Saalus, log off.

You still affect the game economy, be it in small or large part, but you still do. You exist in the game and affect it, thus you’re part of the 40k unique players.

That’s why I try to say:
Just use both CCU and Unique Players. It’s the best way to show the correct picture.

Unique Players alone: 40k won’t show you have problems to find dungeon queues and these stuff.

CCU alone: Won’t show that you actually have 40k players that are part of ToS environment, even if only in the corners, but that still affects market, economy and community.

Most of players that actually heavily interact with high-end items on market are the old players that mostly do Saalus and logout. They’re a big part of the market and game economy. They sometimes affects the market more than who’s playing all the day.

Most of them already leveled 12-20+ characters and they’re satisfied with that. Not all of end-game players are hardcore farmers that will spend hours for small but steady profit when you managed to accumulate a decent amount of silver over years.

I simply post facts with source against certain claims.

I’ve been playing this game since iCBT2, korean servers, iOBT up to now. It grants me a good view on all the issues that happened since I never actually stopped playing but took some breaks here and there.

So, with experience and source I simply ask you:
-> Our claims are conflicting. I have first-hand experience on what happened and sources that serves as proof for what I saw.

-> You have nothing to reaffirm your claims, yet, you try to discard mine as if me, everyone else who was there and the fact as something wrong, that only your opinion is right against all of that.

So, if the user isn’t actually trolling when this classical type of case happens, valuing his opinion of something over an entire fact and all the witness and trying to press his opinion unto others as if it was the truth. What is he doing?

#115

I don’t want to control anything. I don’t want to make people do anything. I don’t want to police anything. Unlike you.

3 Likes
#116

Nor I want to. Like I said, this is what I do:

I simply post facts with source against certain claims.

I’ve been playing this game since iCBT2, korean servers, iOBT up to now. It grants me a good view on all the issues that happened since I never actually stopped playing but took some breaks here and there.

So, with experience and source I simply ask you:
-> Our claims are conflicting. I have first-hand experience on what happened and sources that serves as proof for what I saw.

-> You have nothing to reaffirm your claims, yet, you try to discard mine as if me, everyone else who was there and the fact as something wrong, that only your opinion is right against all of that.

So, if the user isn’t actually trolling when this classical type of case happens, valuing his opinion of something over an entire fact and all the witness and trying to press his negative opinion unto others as if it was the truth.

What is he doing?

#117

tbh all these discussions can be just summarized into

people complaining tend to link their complaints to doomsaying, which isn’t really helping if they want the game to flourish.

it is a given that such statements will attract people who would say otherwise.

there’s always a constructive way to criticize stuff.

and childish extremism followed with non first hand quasi-legit evidence isn’t one of them.

i seem to notice that a lot of people here think that low tier critiques is doing more help than damage

cultural difference should also be taken into consideration. while a lot of people share the same opinion on how they perceive lunarrabbit’s responses.

i think it’s just that people are reading it in a western mindset since the requirement to use the english language suggests that everyone can comprehend western contexts, which is not.

thus making him look like he’s antagonizing people. of course, one misunderstood offense leads to another

2 Likes
#118

Clearly there is something wrong with the game if so many people on the forums and Reddit are dissatisfied with IMC’s handling of the international servers. I participated in enough MMO communities to know where this is going. You listing “facts and statistics” on the population, no matter how true or untrue isn’t going to change the way the majority of vocal player base feels about the game. People are unhappy. People don’t trust IMC. If players continue to feel like this we won’t have any players left at all.

The fact is when people login, the game feels like a wasteland. Unless you play during peak hours, you aren’t going to find a dungeon or Saalus party. Most people you find in game are AFK or are shops. No matter how many players we actually have, a majority of them aren’t playing the game for very long or at all. At one point I only logged in for the attendance rewards, now I don’t bother at all. How valuable are players that only log in to do a few dailies and logout versus players who actively participate in a game’s meaningful content? iTOS mostly has the former which is why many players feel like the game is dead.

No matter how accurate or inaccurate steam charts correlate to the actual population of the game, you can at least acknowledge that from this chart players are declining as the months go on. Eventually those players who only log in for dailies won’t bother logging it at all. That’s the point we reached here in iTOS.

population
population.png907×757 95.1 KB

You can defend IMC all you want but the fact is that they are constantly putting up walls behind players through restrictions whether it be through content or the simple luxury of buying TP items without having to participate in a stupid gambling system. Normally when people complain this much I think it’s silly, but everything IMC is doing warrants all posts and negative opinions. All these factors contribute to why people aren’t staying logged in or aren’t logging in at all.

Every time someone has the tiniest negative opinion on the game or IMC you come hopping along trying to argue that they shouldn’t feel a certain way with a bunch of useless meaningless facts that no one cares about. You’re trying to rationalize and coach people to feel a certain way based on paper facts and call them a troll when they don’t give a rats ass about what you have to say. You can scream how alive the game is all you want, when a player logs into the game, they aren’t getting the MMO experience that TOS offered years ago. The game is in decline, and you’re in denial.

6 Likes
#119

Inb4 40k players, back and forth the same crap, thread locked.

6 Likes
#120

uhm… you’re trying to sound intelligent by using technical jargon and cultural technicalities, but instead it makes you look ignorant because you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about… try again.

1 Like
#121

I’ll just post a chart since your last paragraph shows it’s a doompost:

image
image.png762×535 59.9 KB

We’re still near 40k unique players in last 2 weeks with 3 days drop but no definitive drop yet to ~35k. Let’s wait until the next weekend for more information.

As for the other things about your post, I’m not going to answer each thing because when confronted with information you know you’re wrong you discard what we said just like here:

And here:

It’s not worth my time to talk to a wall, there’s enough posts on the thread already if you want to know why we still have a good amount of players and how ToS nature affects CCU.

Talking about that, seems you only know how to read CCU values, if you need help to understand the Players in Last 2 weeks I can draw or something, just let me know if you need.

#122

I don’t think Lunar has ever said or tried to tell people how they should feel.

Also when people exaggarate on negative aspects it does have an effect or it might be a lie and I see nothing wrong with correcting that.

I might not agree with the extent Lunar pushes the statistics for population but I see nothing inherently wrong and it really does tell a lot more than what CCU does for those who haven’t heard of it before.

Lunar also has never denied ToS having a lot of problems and isn’t defending IMC on everything or even being delusional.

It’s just mainly angry people venting getting more angry at someone correcting them for something they said wrong.

Also the same could be said to a lot of critiques. Who gives a crap about people bashing and swearing and not being able to form a constructive argument? No one. Exaggerations make people also look stupid or overly dramatic.

5 Likes
#123

Also, @Expiredmilk, I noticed you have a common thing with other trolls: You try to hide your in-game name with decent effort.

I dunno why is that but from what server are you playing from? Seems you’re playing from one of the known least populated server to never find queues?

Because I play in Klaipeda and actually doesn’t have some problems you’re talking about. lol

#124

speeking of ignoruns, i aktually typ leik dis. ees jas dat i wus warned abuwt eet dat iyam nao rekwired tu typ leik nermulle

which often ends up sounding artificial, if not robotic.

it will also help if you can point out where and how are my statements are wrong

instead of simply saying that i do not know what i’m saying and suggest that i try the same manner without corrections.

that is how people describe as insanity

am nut tryna be intelijunt, but due tu peeps kennat understande dis typ of typing, ees harde fer mi tu talk inna moar naturalle wei

1 Like